[NF] Hug versus saying I love you, for an NF

[Pushbeat]

Recently my ENFJ female friend has a new boyfriend. She told me she was bothered by the fact that he (my guess an INTJ) doesn't tell her every now and then, that he loves her. I quote "I want him often to say that he loves me unlimited".

So I asked her if he did hug her. He did that. A lot.
Looks to me as the same, or even better than (just) saying I love you.

Is this a common NF thing? Or general insecurity?

 

[Randomnity]

That's just a love languages thing - might overlap a bit with type preferences, might not. I.e. whether people prefer to express/receive love through

1. verbal (i.e. "I love you", etc)
2. touch (i.e. hugs, etc)
3. gifts
4. actions showing that you care
5. I never remember the last damn one, but there are 5, anyway.

I'd guess that NFs might be more likely than other types to go for verbal expression, and SPs for touch, and SJs for actions, but that guess only applies to average populations, not individuals. There are definitely some threads around here on love languages and type, if you search around a bit.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Don't ever expect to get a diverse range of expressions from any IxTx type!

You don't know how many threads there have been with complaints about "my ISTP doesn't love me", or "my INTJ doesn't care" and so forth.

My suggestion would be to introduce these people to personality types and explain why certain types (IxTx, enneagram 5) are just not programmed to perform these sorts of social rituals and relationship functions at a sufficient level to please the stupid multitudes.

 

[Randomnity]

Don't ever expect to get a diverse range of expressions from any IxTx type!

You don't know how many threads there have been with complaints about "my ISTP doesn't love me", or "my INTJ doesn't care" and so forth.

My suggestion would be to introduce these people to personality types and explain why certain types (IxTx, enneagram 5) are just not programmed to perform these sorts of social rituals and relationship functions at a sufficient level to please the stupid multitudes.

That's BS. You're right that on average it will be less natural for IxTx types to express emotions, but we can certainly learn and even excel, just as ExFx types can excel at analyzing complicated equations that have nothing to do with emotions.

Of course, the desire to do so has to be there, and in many IxTx types, especially the young ones, it isn't (yet).

 

[Infinite Bubble]

Could be more Fi vs Fe. She may feel that him saying 'I love you' would be a direct expression of his feelings. But the INTJ thinks that hugging is more sincere. Maybe the ENFJ hugs friends a lot, or is desensitized by repetition, so sees hugs as nothing special.

 

[Standuble]

I don't normally receive much of either and don't really have much need of either but hugging would be far better. "I love you" can have a myriad of different reasons, several different contexts and different levels of depth and/or sincerity. It could be perceived to be deep emotional attraction and its purely a platonic enjoyment of your company.

Hugging though better conveys (at least to me) what they feel about you. Their whole approach, manner of hugging, hug length etc. can be far easily measured to conclude on the state of their feelings to you. For instance I know the "feel" of a friendly hug and how it differs to a romantic hug (even though the latter are very, very rare for me.)

 

[Pushbeat]

Their whole approach, manner of hugging, hug length etc. can be far easily measured to conclude on the state of their feelings to you. For instance I know the "feel" of a friendly hug and how it differs to a romantic hug (even though the latter are very, very rare for me.)

Hmm, seems like you want romantic hugs. Do you express yourself clearly enough?

My suggestion would be to introduce these people to personality types and explain why certain types (IxTx, enneagram 5) are just not programmed to perform these sorts of social rituals and relationship functions at a sufficient level to please the stupid multitudes.

I did. The subject seemed logical to me, but I understand that logic is not her favourite process. ;-)

Could be more Fi vs Fe. She may feel that him saying 'I love you' would be a direct expression of his feelings. But the INTJ thinks that hugging is more sincere. Maybe the ENFJ hugs friends a lot, or is desensitized by repetition, so sees hugs as nothing special.

That makes a huge lot of sense.

 

[Pushbeat]

1. verbal (i.e. "I love you", etc)
2. touch (i.e. hugs, etc)
3. gifts
4. actions showing that you care
5. I never remember the last damn one, but there are 5, anyway.

5. Quality time.

Strange thing is that I never heard of these, until last monday. Someone mentioned those to me but only remembered four. Remarkable.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

Recently my ENFJ female friend has a new boyfriend. She told me she was bothered by the fact that he (my guess an INTJ) doesn't tell her every now and then, that he loves her. I quote "I want him often to say that he loves me unlimited".

So I asked her if he did hug her. He did that. A lot.
Looks to me as the same, or even better than (just) saying I love you.

Is this a common NF thing? Or general insecurity?

She is high maintenance in my opinion. He sounds like a low maintenance giver, therein lies the issue.

I would suggest to her that she should be direct and discuss this with him and formulate a plan on how to work towards a middle ground. Their both J's, a planing session might do them well.

 

[Randomnity]

5. Quality time.

Strange thing is that I never heard of these, until last monday. Someone mentioned those to me but only remembered four. Remarkable.

Oh yeah. LOL, that's actually always the one that comes up top for me. It just always seems like such an obvious thing that I don't tend to think of it as a love language at all.

 

[Standuble]

Hmm, seems like you want romantic hugs. Do you express yourself clearly enough?

I don't really (at least most of the time.) I was explaining that I have little experience in one area which I'm actually using as a configuration which I am assessing the current situation in regards to. So I may be wrong in my measurements, with any future romantic hugs being incorrectly concluded as friendly ones and vice versa.

I imagine the difference is a combination of feeling and perceiving. There could always be verbal exclamations where the context and intensity are immediately evident but for the majority of cases it could be interpreted in many different ways. It may not even be truthful or sincere in the slightest. If I'm after romance I don't really want to have to go through all the possibilities (Fi-Si loop perhaps) and I want to know the conclusion. A hug expresses more and it helps to narrow down the possibilities. Of course if I'm not romantically interested either will do.

The poster who said it was a case of Fi vs Fe has a good point too, even though I have heard that INTJs are often uncomfortable with hugs.

 

[Pushbeat]

She is high maintenance in my opinion. He sounds like a low maintenance giver, therein lies the issue.

I would suggest to her that she should be direct and discuss this with him and formulate a plan on how to work towards a middle ground. Their both J's, a planing session might do them well.

Correct & correct. She is afraid of losing him by being "too demanding". I advised her to discuss it without any delay, but with the least possible drama. A planning session might be a good idea as well ;-)

 

[Pushbeat]

I don't really (at least most of the time.) I was explaining that I have little experience in one area which I'm actually using as a configuration which I am assessing the current situation in regards to. So I may be wrong in my measurements, with any future romantic hugs being incorrectly concluded as friendly ones and vice versa.

I imagine the difference is a combination of feeling and perceiving. There could always be verbal exclamations where the context and intensity are immediately evident but for the majority of cases it could be interpreted in many different ways. It may not even be truthful or sincere in the slightest. If I'm after romance I don't really want to have to go through all the possibilities (Fi-Si loop perhaps) and I want to know the conclusion. A hug expresses more and it helps to narrow down the possibilities. Of course if I'm not romantically interested either will do.

The poster who said it was a case of Fi vs Fe has a good point too, even though I have heard that INTJs are often uncomfortable with hugs.

That's clear, I understand that. I'm so far behind on F and S :-( Still got something to learn.
It would be stupid (for me as an observing INTP) if she wants to hear "I love you" and he thinks that a hug is better. But his normal reaction would be just to say "I love you". And she considers a hug as just a hug. Complicated.

 

[cafe]

For me, if you know your partner needs/wants something but instead you give them what you would want it's pretty pointless. It'd be like ordering my husband's pizza with mushrooms even though I know he doesn't like them and then feeling put out because he doesn't want to eat it. I mean, I love mushrooms on my pizza. What's his problem?

Myself, I'm very verbal and my family is very verbally so I need the words. I like and need hugs, too, but the words mean something to me that hugs don't.

Edit: FWIW, my INTP has become pretty competent with the verbal stuff, just like I've learned to scratch his back and play with his hair. I mean, how much does it cost to make a little gesture of affection or appreciation? I can read a book and play with his hair. He can take his shoes and jacket off while telling me he loves me. It just doesn't seem like a herculean effort compared to the pay-off to me.

 

[cascadeco]

For me, if you know your partner needs/wants something but instead you give them what you would want it's pretty pointless. It'd be like ordering my husband's pizza with mushrooms even though I know he doesn't like them and then feeling put out because he doesn't want to eat it. I mean, I love mushrooms on my pizza. What's his problem?

Myself, I'm very verbal and my family is very verbally so I need the words. I like and need hugs, too, but the words mean something to me that hugs don't.

Edit: FWIW, my INTP has become pretty competent with the verbal stuff, just like I've learned to scratch his back and play with his hair. I mean, how much does it cost to make a little gesture of affection or appreciation? I can read a book and play with his hair. He can take his shoes and jacket off while telling me he loves me. It just doesn't seem like a herculean effort compared to the pay-off to me.

Yeah.. I view it similarly. I feel like if I know my partner values a certain love language, I'll bend over backwards to use that language, add that to be a much bigger component in my repertoire. I can't easily comprehend the other person not trying to do the same in return. And if they would flat-out refuse, saying insisting it's 'not them', or they can't, what do I do with that? Should I just decide to make it tit for tat, then, and stop speaking their language?

----

Anyway, I think it's completely reasonable that if one persons' love language is verbal, and the others' weakest and least valued is verbal, that the latter person may not easily remember to try to be verbal on occasion, and I don't think the latter person should have to start saying 'I love you' every day or even super regularly. But I don't think it would kill the latter person to say it occasionally, if for no other reason than because they truly do love the other person and know the other person needs to hear it sometimes, as 'irrational', meaningless, or unrelatable as it may seem to the latter. And without that attempt at extension, I would be hard-pressed to believe they actually did love me.

For myself, I don't know that I need to hear the specific phrase, but some sort of similarly-messaged phrase indicating expression of emotion would be desirable on occasion. Just to be told every now and then that the other person cares for me, I'm important to them, whatnot, would go a long way.

fwiw, I am not sure if verbal is in my top 2 or not, but I've been in a relationship with zero verbal, never hearing the phrase for 2 yrs besides my knowing he cared for me, and it began eating away at me.

 

[chickpea]

I mean.. I'll hug a total stranger. I like getting hugs but they definitely aren't equal to telling somebody you love them.

my istp boyfriend didn't tell me he loved me until we were dating for over a year and lived together though, which I was pretty offended by even though I could tell that he loved me through his actions. which went way beyond hugging or I would have kicked his ass to the curb long ago

how old are your friends?

 

[skylights]

I'm a touchy-feely person. I get more out of physical touch than words. Physical touch is so much more literally tangible, so much more comforting for me. It's enveloping.

So, no, I don't think needing words is an NF thing. But it might be an F thing to seek more positive affirmation in general.

[Quality time] just always seems like such an obvious thing that I don't tend to think of it as a love language at all.

Haha, me neither.

 

[Pushbeat]

how old are your friends?

Mid 40, and they are together for 3.5 months now.

 

[Southern Kross]

That's just a love languages thing - might overlap a bit with type preferences, might not. I.e. whether people prefer to express/receive love through

Yeah, I think you're right here. I don't think it's terribly type related.

 

[Lady_X]

Recently my ENFJ female friend has a new boyfriend. She told me she was bothered by the fact that he (my guess an INTJ) doesn't tell her every now and then, that he loves her. I quote "I want him often to say that he loves me unlimited".

So I asked her if he did hug her. He did that. A lot.
Looks to me as the same, or even better than (just) saying I love you.

Is this a common NF thing? Or general insecurity?

It's kind of a fi vs fe thing too