[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Fe Door-Slam v. Te Bitch-Slap

[skylights]

that's... more literal of a slap than i prefer. to give or receive, lol.

Nope. It'd be easier giving you stories in the cases it's happened. I'll spare you though, and just say "doorslamming" has only happened in the case of females and closer friends.. people I either find it hard to be too harsh with or expected more from. I voiced my opinion, but I was at a loss for awhile. That's all it was. For the most part, I'm usually taking a step back and seeing some other point of view with people. It has to be pretty serious to get to this.

that's what really scares me about the doorslam, though. it's like, the closer you get to someone, the more likely they are to doorslam you out. and then... someone could be left hurt and confused and still totally in love with you. and wanting to fix things but having no idea what they've done wrong.

 

[rav3n]

oh yeah! sorry, i was only thinking in the context of Fi and Fe. but you're welcome.

i imagine your ENTJ bitchslap is masterful in comparison to mine

Ha ha! Not a pretty sight so I try not to give it free rein.

As far as yours is concerned, y'all can find the most vulnerable buttons and cause pain, speaking of unworthiness!

 

[KDude]

FWIW, I've been doorslammed too. By (never typed them) what I think were ISFJ. It was rough, I agree. I think Ni is good here though.. it helped me approach them and reach out. I don't see why Ni-Fe is so associated with doorslamming. It's too simple an approach to be a common occurance. Maybe I'm wrong (I'm guilty of some simplicity myself.. like I just let out above).

 

[Tallulah]

Thanks for your explanation. I hear you.

The bolded area is where it's most difficult for Te-doms. It feels like walking on egg-shells to hold back the intensity of Te-Fi. Intensity that builds when it's being restrained.

When we experience the Fe-door slam, in the silence, we have no idea what's going on since there's no communication. It might be nothing or something. Add in wonky Fi and Ni going crazy with the possibilities and hopefully, you can see how this would be similar to a pressure cooker.

I can understand that--I think, thanks to the Fi-Fe thread, I would be better able to deal with it now and adjust my reaction accordingly. But when I've seen it in the past, it tended to make me retreat/scared me off.

The doorslam does tend to be Fe-Ti paralysis. As someone else said, Fe doesn't really know what to feel, and we want to make sure we've read the situation correctly. Half the time, if I've had resentment directed towards me, I am not really sure what I'm even entitled to feel and respond to, and what would be just me acting out of feeling blindsided. I don't like responding emotionally before I've had a chance for Ti to take a look at it. It's not an intentional freezeout on my part when it happens; I just don't really know how to deal with so much all at once. I need processing time. I'm wondering if it would be better to let the Te-Fi person to have their say, unfiltered, and then the Fe-Ti person to say, "okay, I hear you, but I need some time to think--can we pick this up a little later?"

 

[Thalassa]

that's what really scares me about the doorslam, though. it's like, the closer you get to someone, the more likely they are to doorslam you out. and then... someone could be left hurt and confused and still totally in love with you. and wanting to fix things but having no idea what they've done wrong.

YES. Exactly. I'd much rather be Te bitchslapped any day of the week.

 

[KDude]

I can understand that--I think, thanks to the Fi-Fe thread, I would be better able to deal with it now and adjust my reaction accordingly. But when I've seen it in the past, it tended to make me retreat/scared me off.

The doorslam does tend to be Fe-Ti paralysis. As someone else said, Fe doesn't really know what to feel, and we want to make sure we've read the situation correctly. Half the time, if I've had resentment directed towards me, I am not really sure what I'm even entitled to feel and respond to, and what would be just me acting out of feeling blindsided. I don't like responding emotionally before I've had a chance for Ti to take a look at it. It's not an intentional freezeout on my part when it happens; I just don't really know how to deal with so much all at once. I need processing time. I'm wondering if it would be better to let the Te-Fi person to have their say, unfiltered, and then the Fe-Ti person to say, "okay, I hear you, but I need some time to think--can we pick this up a little later?"

For me, I could sit and think about it, but I end up laying it aside.. Try to get my mind off of it. Later, a good idea just comes up and I HAVE to express it, in an email or text, etc (sometimes I don't exactly get through, but the process may repeat itself). To me, this is Fe as well.. trying to connect, rather than shutting out. And Ni popping up with ideas on how to do it. The only Ti here is... I guess.. how I might sort of subconsciously phrase things.

So that's me on the other side of the fence. If I was the one doorslamming a person, it would take an extreme. For example, I was dating someone, and (what I thought) was a good friend got jealous and spread lies to her behind my back, trying to get in her pants. She naively believes it and shuts me out. Leaving me confused, until I finally resolve it. Now for the "friend": This guy gets doorslammed by me. Justifiably. And I'm so disappointed I don't even want to punch him.. I don't even want to see his face or be anywhere around friends who are with him. Thank God, this doesn't happen all the time. I think it's sad if people have to shut out others for something less than that, and behave that way as a rule.

 

[rav3n]

I can understand that--I think, thanks to the Fi-Fe thread, I would be better able to deal with it now and adjust my reaction accordingly. But when I've seen it in the past, it tended to make me retreat/scared me off.

That's been one helpful thread for many of us. I'm still trying to process it.

The doorslam does tend to be Fe-Ti paralysis. As someone else said, Fe doesn't really know what to feel, and we want to make sure we've read the situation correctly. Half the time, if I've had resentment directed towards me, I am not really sure what I'm even entitled to feel and respond to, and what would be just me acting out of feeling blindsided. I don't like responding emotionally before I've had a chance for Ti to take a look at it. It's not an intentional freezeout on my part when it happens; I just don't really know how to deal with so much all at once. I need processing time.

This is great insight, so thanks for this. In the past, I've had other INTPs try to explain this to me but in the heat of the moment, which makes it difficult to process as a Te-dom since aggression levels are pretty high and we're expecting matching aggression with clear explanations. As you've expressed, like a pitbull.

I'm wondering if it would be better to let the Te-Fi person to have their say, unfiltered, and then the Fe-Ti person to say, "okay, I hear you, but I need some time to think--can we pick this up a little later?"

From my perspective, if the time to think is expected behaviour, then yes, it would work. What would also help is some form of set date or time where response is expected, although I'm uncertain how that would work with you, as it relates to feeling pressured.

 

[KDude]

Damnit.. I'm tired of saying "this is how this function is", etc.. I think I know the definitions, but I feel like I could step over my boundaries and generalize a type too much. Perhaps INFJs do doorslam a lot. I know I don't. Maybe I'm mistyped (once again). I feel like I have to follow all of these trends on what's agreed on. I'm not a passive-aggressive door slammer enough to be INFJ, not emo enough for INFP, not "go with the flow" enough for ISFP.

Time to take a break.

 

[You]

You'll never know.

 

[redacted]

The doorslam does tend to be Fe-Ti paralysis. As someone else said, Fe doesn't really know what to feel, and we want to make sure we've read the situation correctly. Half the time, if I've had resentment directed towards me, I am not really sure what I'm even entitled to feel and respond to, and what would be just me acting out of feeling blindsided.

This really resonated with me.

The only time I really lash out is when I'm trying to make sense of someone's (perceived) aggression towards me and they just keep piling it on. I can also see how that could be considered a distraction tactic by an Fi/Te user, and it would probably make them want even more to push their point.

It's an unfortunate communication dynamic sometimes.

 

[KDude]

You'll never know.

Possibly, if I worry about stereotypes of different types/functions. I don't want to be associated with doorslamming behavior.

I don't enjoy entertaining your word "never" though. It's not that bad.

 

[skylights]

Possibly, if I worry about stereotypes of different types/functions. I don't want to be associated with doorslamming behavior.

I don't enjoy entertaining your word "never" though. It's not that bad.

well, to be honest, sometimes the doorslam really isn't a doorslam. it's just distancing as defense, whereas it sounds like Fi users tend to blow up as defense.

yeah, i wouldn't worry about stereotypes at all. i mean, if you can recognize either in yourself, maybe that would help you settle on a type, but maybe you're just someone of that type who is more moderate and balanced. plus i think we're really overemphasizing these differences to get a sense of how we miscommunicate.

 

[KDude]

Even then, I don't know where the stereotype comes from. If I see there's room for it, I put effort into smoothing things out with people. Sometimes I don't see room either, and somehow create some anyways. The reason I changed from being a Fi dom is because their F is more subdued, enigmatic, and isn't as actively informative. While Fe is extroverted in nature. While I am an introvert, Fi has become harder to identify with the more I learn about it.

Let me just give you a random INFJ description to illustrate my point:

You Are An INFJ

The Protector

You live your life with integrity, originality, vision, and creativity.
Independent and stubborn, you rarely stray from your vision - no matter what it is.
You are an excellent listener with almost infinite patience.
You have complex feelings, and you take great care to express them.

In love, you see relationships as an opportunity to connect and grow.
You enjoy relationships when they are improving and changing. You can't stand stagnation.

At work, you stay motivated and happy... as long as you are working toward a dream you support.

When other people don't get you, they see you as: Manipulative, weak, and unstable

Granted, it's a simplistic description, but I'll emphasize the bolded part. Whatever "type" I am, I'm one of those annoying people who can't stand stagnation (admittedly, it's both good and bad). What I'm not is someone who enjoys drawing out silence. There has to be a pretty good reason for it. I don't believe in letting things slip too far off the deep end just because I need to be cool or something. Life is too short. It goes without mentioning the number of ENFJs and INFJs who register at this site solely to seek advice on their uncommunicative friends or partners. It's the Fe types that often try and are at a loss sometimes with silence.

 

[skylights]

Granted, it's a simplistic description, but I'll emphasize the bolded part. Whatever "type" I am, I'm one of those annoying people who can't stand stagnation (admittedly, it's both good and bad). What I'm not is someone who enjoys drawing out silence. There has to be a pretty good reason for it. I don't believe in letting things slip too far off the deep end just because I need to be cool or something. Life is too short. It goes without mentioning the number of ENFJs and INFJs who register at this site solely to seek advice on their uncommunicative friends or partners. It's the Fe types that are often trying and at a loss sometimes with silence.

i dunno if anyone really enjoys drawing out silence, or that it's done to be cool. i think usually it happens - and this is mostly based off what i've seen with my extensive family and friends - when someone is trying to prevent something from happening. fear. they got hurt once and don't want to risk getting hurt again.

i don't think most of us are trying to pin INFJs down as doorslammers; i think the point is that it's a popular Fe-based defensive technique, just as lashing out is a popular Fi-based defensive technique. i don't really want my type to be seen as explosive and hurtful, but doubtless it happens. i personally actually used the "silent treatment" every once in a while when i was a teenager - and if someone didn't know how to approach me in a comforting way, then i was very likely to continue the silence. and my Fe-dom mom will sometimes yell loud and clear, too. i don't feel like the rules we're talking about are hard-and-fast... they're just correlations. associated patterns of behavior. and as far as i've seen, with my family and friends, the average response of a Fi user when confronted with a raging attack against them is to rage back. the average response of a Fe user is to leave.

and also, i think sometimes the problem is that the Fe user is trying to reach out in a way the Fi user doesn't understand, and vice versa. if someone's attempt at reaching out sounds more like a continued attack to the other person, then we all may preserve our silence... i know that personally, after i've lashed out all the way, i'm such a huge messed up wreck of emotion that unless they are around to comfort me, i don't want to see anyone.

i guess my point is, we all attack and block out to some extent. and i'm with you about stagnation. can't stand it.

 

[KDude]

and i'm with you about stagnation. can't stand it.

Yeah, I wouldn't limit it to INFJ either. I think that's just a general NF thing actually. We need change and don't live in the present and accept it easily. We're all romantics, even about things that aren't romantic And usually try to express ideas or having a longing within to get out of stagnating. That's what I was trying to point out in that Fe/Fi thread. That NFPs and NFJs generally have the same goals in a way, but just go about it differently.

Maybe I'm balanced about the doorslamming thing, but I'm not quite ready to give myself that credit I think what I do is fairly typical of Fe. If I don't let an argument overwhelm me (which is more about maturity than anything, I guess), I will also communicate enough to pay attention to their feelings too, and help move where the conversation goes with everything in mind.

Take the cognitive function test questions, for example. Imagine how they would play out.

Fe:

1)Feel inclined to be responsible for, and take care of, others' feelings.
2)Compassionately take on someone else's needs as your own
3)Recognize and usually adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along
4) Readily communicate personally to all members of a group to feel unity.

See a pattern here? If anything, I'd say that when someone "just walks away", they're probably giving up on Fe and going to something else.

Secondly, look at

Ni:

1)Experience a premonition or foresee the distant future.
2)Achieve a metamorphosis, definitive insight, or powerful vision of change.
3)Engage life's magical moments and meaningful coincidences as they happen.
4)Transform yourself by focusing inward on a specific way you foresee you will need to be.

This makes for someone who latches on to little hints or notes on what implications they see can/will happen, how they should reexamine themselves and change (from within) to overcome a problem, insight into how they're going wrong, or seeing some new angle about the other person or problem, etc.. Combine it with Fe and you get someone who's trying to express a new way out of difficulties. If not immediately, at least eventually.

Remember that thread where we were talking about storywriting, and how I said I would build world elements first, set a little stage, and then a plot could come up afterwards..? That's almost how it can work out in friendships or other difficulties too. When I say doorslamming is simplistic, I mean it's not a really creative plot. It's almost inevitable that a better storyline passes before my eyes instead of that one.

 

[skylights]

at the same time, i think you're not attending to the darker side of Fe - or Ni, for that matter, but mainly Fe. it's not just a caring and nurturing function. it's very good at broadcasting social messages of love - but it's also very good at broadcasting social messages of "you are not wanted." Fi has its dark side too - being selfish, over-emotional, exploiting awareness of inner places of hurt, and insecure - but Fe can also be guilting, controlling, and exploitive of its natural social connection to ostracize. since there are Star Trek analogies going on in the Fe-Fi thread, i figure i'll bring a Star Wars one in here... Fe and Fi are like two divisions of the Force, and we can use either for Light or Dark. to heal or hurt. not healing does not mean not Fe. it simply means not using Fe for benevolent purposes.

and part of the message of shutting someone out is that the other is not wanted. it might not be an intended message - just like i don't typically intend to hurt someone during the Te bitchslap - but still, through some kind of interpersonal channel, there is a message of coldness that is being sent. it's more than just a physical door. it's like a tangible wall that one puts between themself and someone else. people can sense it. i know a couple of NFJs very well and i know how it feels when they go into a Ni-dominated place in their minds and are totally neutral about it. you're left behind, certainly, but there's no metaphorical slamming of the door. in fact, it has nothing to do with the other person at all. but this is completely different; this is a power i do not have. it's the power to captivate - or freeze - an entire room.

and yeah, i totally agree, that combo of Ni and Fe can be used for really wonderful purposes. but i have been doorslammed by NiFe quite often enough to know that there is something more than pure benevolence going on there.

 

[Mondo]

i dunno if anyone really enjoys drawing out silence, or that it's done to be cool. i think usually it happens - and this is mostly based off what i've seen with my extensive family and friends - when someone is trying to prevent something from happening. fear. they got hurt once and don't want to risk getting hurt again.

i don't think most of us are trying to pin INFJs down as doorslammers; i think the point is that it's a popular Fe-based defensive technique, just as lashing out is a popular Fi-based defensive technique. i don't really want my type to be seen as explosive and hurtful, but doubtless it happens. i personally actually used the "silent treatment" every once in a while when i was a teenager - and if someone didn't know how to approach me in a comforting way, then i was very likely to continue the silence. and my Fe-dom mom will sometimes yell loud and clear, too. i don't feel like the rules we're talking about are hard-and-fast... they're just correlations. associated patterns of behavior. and as far as i've seen, with my family and friends, the average response of a Fi user when confronted with a raging attack against them is to rage back. the average response of a Fe user is to leave.

and also, i think sometimes the problem is that the Fe user is trying to reach out in a way the Fi user doesn't understand, and vice versa. if someone's attempt at reaching out sounds more like a continued attack to the other person, then we all may preserve our silence... i know that personally, after i've lashed out all the way, i'm such a huge messed up wreck of emotion that unless they are around to comfort me, i don't want to see anyone.

i guess my point is, we all attack and block out to some extent. and i'm with you about stagnation. can't stand it.

At times, silence is drawn out when people simply really don't know what to say after an awkward moment. Fe-users often (at least from my perspective) try to seem to be the "more emotionally aware" one in a conflict and I find Fe-users often lash out against those who aren't as "emotionally aware".

 

[KDude]

but i have been doorslammed by NiFe quite often enough to know that there is something more than pure benevolence going on there.

It's true, I concentrate on the positive a bit. I don't deny that there are darker elements to our Types..we're all just human, living in points in our lives where we show one side of the coin or another. Some show the darker side more than others. Technically, I still could shut people out too. I think I'm trying to do it for good reasons though: I don't like destructive people, thugs, extreme amounts of selfishness, etc.. I'm not really shutting these people out so much though as not making friends with them to begin with (I did it explore it once though). It takes a lot to extend graciousness in all directions. I can't make it work for me. Gotta have some enemies.

But I'm a little more forgiving otherwise. I consider it, more or less, a normal amount of tolerance.

 

[Thalassa]

I think Fi/Te types can "doorslam" people too, but with less of an element of guilt. The Fe doorslam gives me the feeling of "u bad person and u should be sorry and I should not have to tell u why."

Fi/Te doorslam is more matter-of-fact, or fuck you, I think. I also think it's more easily reversed.

Just IME. It bears pointing out that we all use all of the functions, just prefer some more strongly than others. It appears to be a lot easier to scare Fe types away with the Te bitchslap, as well.

 

[KDude]

I don't know any Te types who can do it. I've also had this kamikaze version of Se that just picks fights with any sort of abusive Te (that isn't to say it's abusive in general). I usually understand them, but I don't like anyone who talks down or is condescending in an impersonal Te way. Especially if they don't show me some element of Se to listen to them ("back it up" basically. Show me why you can be that way. Give me some tangible reasons about the issue at hand on why I should start kissing ass. Otherwise, it's going to get ugly).