[MBTI General] Do you think ESJs are good boyfriends?

[SillySapienne]

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One of my serious relationships was once with an ESxJ, we dated for almost two years, and even though we had little in common, he treated me really well and was, to this very day, one of my best boyfriends.

He cared deeply for me, never played games, enjoyed my company *always*, took care of me and looked out for me, and, I dunno, was just really boyfriend-like.

He was the opposite of a nerd, or bookish, (which is really my type), yet he was incredibly business savvy, smart (in the high IQ sense), fun-loving, and I dunno, he was the perfect mixture of masculinity and femininity.

Feminine men seem to be deeply attracted to me, (I can be quite androgynous, or even downright "masculine" at times), and they do nothing for me in the bedroom department.

I dunno.

It's ironic, I guess, because I tend to dislike ESJs.

Weird, huh!



Long story short, I am kinda talking to this guy, and he's definitely an ESJ, I think, and he does sorta remind me of my ESJ ex, (who happens to be married, right now).

What do you NFs think about seriously dating someone you don't intellectually, or cosmically connect with?

ESJs are kinda refreshing, they're so busy doing stuff, so their heads are rarely, if ever, in the clouds or up their asses, like ours!

For example, this guy I'm talking to LOVES sports!!!



And he hasn't picked up a book in years.

But, I dunno, he's pretty fucking wise, incredibly street smart, business savvy and generally speaking a good man, and... he would make a lovely boyfriend.

Sorry for the rant, I am just a bit confused.

Any input at all would be helpful, thanks!



Oh, and before this guy I was talking to a hardcore NF, and it was like the most fun, creative-outlet, trip of a travel. But I never touched his penis, nor would I ever want to, nameen?!?!

 

[SillySapienne]

For the record, I don't think I ever dated an N, what does that say about me.

 

[Nocapszy]

no, i don't.

but i guess...
well, would you ever expect me to say anything good about one of those?

 

[Edgar]

What do you NFs think about seriously dating someone you don't intellectually, or cosmically connect with?

I'm not an NF, but I can tell you with certainty that it won't work long term.

If you want to be distracted for the time being though... that's a different story.

For the record, I don't think I ever dated an N, what does that say about me.

Well, there are not a lot of Ns floating around, so at least you have that excuse.

 

[SillySapienne]

I'm not an NF, but I can tell you with certainty that it won't work long term.

How do you know?

Eh, I guess you might be right.

When I was with my ESJ ex, I told him, pointblank, that I would never marry him or have his children.

And I don't think I'd ever marry this guy or have his children, either. :/

If you want to be distracted for the time being though... that's a different story.

It's not about distraction, it's about physical connection, and intimacy, being held and cared for, sleeping next to somebody.

Well, there are not a lot of Ns floating around, so at least you have that excuse.

Werd!

Also, introverts in general, especially ITs, i.e. the type I'm most attracted to, tend to be so fucking aloof, and solitary.

Thanks for your feedback, Edgar, I'm just confused.

 

[Edgar]

How do you know?

Communication and mutual understanding is is the key to a long lasting relationship. If you don't have that, it won't last. Romantic relationship cannot survive on respect alone. Its not a business transaction.

Plus NFs tend to be touchy when it comes to a "spiritual connection" topic, whether they admit to it or not.

It's not about distraction, it's about physical connection, and intimacy, being held and cared for, sleeping next to somebody.

Yeah, ENFPs cannot bear the idea of being alone, hence a lot of hit-and-run relationships.

Thanks for your feedback, Edgar, I'm just confused.

Its not confusion, its desperation (see my previous sentence).

 

[SillySapienne]

Communication and mutual understanding is is the key to a long lasting relationship. If you don't have that, it won't last. Romantic relationship cannot survive on respect alone. Its not a business transaction.

I totally get that, though in the literal sense, I have yet to seriously date a man who truly understood me. But my desire for that is like my desire to taste the color purple and swim in others' lives, gently in the day time and wake up at night in a room with no corners, with a skylight looking up at the moon.

Sorry, I digress.

I actually communicate better with EJ's *in romantic relationships* than I do with ITs, my ISTP perpetual ex knows very little about my world hidden under the surface of my actions, nor would he want too.

Plus NFs tend to be touchy when it comes to a "spiritual connection" topic, whether they admit to it or not.

I never believed in God, yet I was always a hardcore romantic.

I used to think I'd find this perfect man who'd see me, really *see* me, and understand me and I, him, and that we would live happily ever after.

Sadly, I think that that is just a myth. :/

Yeah, ENFPs cannot bear the idea of being alone, hence a lot of hit-and-run relationships.

That *used* to be me, but I just turned 27, I am not just fucking around anymore, I want something, and someone with real promise.

I think it might be alright to settle down with a guy who treats you right, but who just might not have the tools to really get you.

But if he lets you be you, and doesn't stifle you, in fact, if he admires your "eccentricities", shouldn't that be good enough?

If I need to get my intellectual rocks off, I always have you guys and books, nameen?

Thanks, again, Edgar, for your feedback, it is refreshingly helpful!

 

[SillySapienne]

Its not confusion, its desperation (see my previous sentence).

Edgar, I happen to be premenstrual and extra NF-y today, please don't hurt my feelings.

I do not think I am desperate, I am just, I dunno, ready to wake up in the arms of someone every day as opposed to waking next to my dogs.

I have been such a good ENFP, trying my hardest not to lead anyone on, etc.

But, my love life has been piss poor ever since I decided to take relationships more seriously and less recklessly.

I don't want to go through with anything unless it'll be worth it.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Yes.

I'm an advocate of the match.

But I am biased: been happily married to an ESTJ for 20 years now.

And honestly, the sex is still rockingly good even after all this time. A great benefit, I think, of the refreshingly "let's get down to business" ESTJ attitude.

Is he romantic, and all gushy lovey-dovey? Nope. But he is funny and dedicated and loyal and a great father. He can be grumpy but there's no pretending, he just is himself and I find it refreshing that I don't have to try to figure out what his moods are.

I say go for it.

 

[Thalassa]

.

But, my love life has been piss poor ever since I decided to take relationships more seriously and less recklessly.

Ain't that how it goes, sister?

 

[SillySapienne]

Thanks so much for you input, PeaceBaby!!

I see exactly what you are saying.

First of all, I had the best sex with my ESJ ex, he was always super down to both please me and explore with me, never at all judging me, and he always was very sexually present, if you know what I mean.

Also, I am an extrovert, but I always enjoy kind of taking the passenger seat in a relationship.

ESJs love to be the center of attention, or they just kind of take center stage and that's that, but still, as you say, highly dedicated and loyal!!!

Dana my ESJ ex, wanted me to move in with him after our first date, and he never ever played games with me. He loved me and wanted me, and I never had to read between the lines.

This guy I am sorta talking to now, I've known for awhile yet never gave him the time of day, I found out he had a crush on me and was kinda taken aback, (I just assumed he liked flashier types of girls), he drives an S-class Mercedes *barf* and is sort of materialistic, but he is super considerate, and sincere, and OH MY GOD HONEST!!!

He is refreshingly honest.

His extroversion brings out my introversion, and I like that.

Still on the fence.

I will say this, we do have amazing chemistry.

Thanks again for your input!

 

[SillySapienne]

Ain't that how it goes, sister?

Totz!!!

I hate being responsible!!!

 

[PeaceBaby]

Thanks so much for you input, PeaceBaby!!

You're welcome - I see too many people jumping to conclusions on the NF - SJ match in general, so I like to share my personal experience rather than just an opinion.

First of all, I had the best sex with my ESJ ex, he was always super down to both please me and explore with me, never at all judging me, and he always was very sexually present, if you know what I mean.

Yep. Oh Yep.

Also, I am an extrovert, but I always enjoy kind of taking the passenger seat in a relationship.

I love being pursued too, I think that's what I hear you saying.

I will say this, we do have amazing chemistry.

And for me a chemistry that has persisted. You know your heart, so I wish you a million happy magical moments.

 

[matilda]

It depends on what you're looking for.

Compatibility-wise, do you want someone who understands you (probably another N) or accepts you for who you are (S)?

I am aware of the non-mutual-exclusiveness but yeah, I do believe that opposites are good for each other.

I agree. ESTJs are so real.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Compatibility-wise, do you want someone who understands you (probably another N) or accepts you for who you are (S)?

The distinction, nicely put.

 

[SillySapienne]

You're welcome - I see too many people jumping to conclusions on the NF - SJ match in general, so I like to share my personal experience rather than just an opinion.

After all, experience is the best teacher!

Yep. Oh Yep.

I love being pursued too, I think that's what I hear you saying. So Yep. Oh Yep.

You know what, it's kind of funny, whereas I am usually the pursuer, it is definitely kind of nice actually being the one who is pursued.

For a contrasting example; With my perpetual ISTP ex, I pursued him, initially, and somewhere deep down inside, I feel a sense of insecurity due to this. Like, if he is/was so down for me, why didn't he *show* me he was. With him, I am constantly seeking validity, and security within the relationship, his distance, (both geographical and emotional) in nature often leads me guessing. Whereas with this guy, and my other ESJ ex, they actually make their needs and desires blatantly known, and shown!!!

No room for guessing games with them. No room for insecurity, and what can I say, I'm tired of dealing with my ISTP's commitment-phobia.

I spoke to this ESJ several times today, and he is so cute, telling me how excited he is to come home on Monday so he can see me, He's a little bit older than me, and he is the absolute opposite of a commitment-phobe, he loves having a girlfriend and already wants to start seeing me seriously.

He compliments me, and tells things to me straight, and...

Talking to him is *not* like pulling teeth.

When he says he's gonna call me, he does, when I call him, he picks up the phone.

And, despite our different personality proclivities, we actually have a great time talking to each other!!!

He lives in LA, but when I was in New York we spent hours upon hours just talking and getting to know each other.

And, well, yes, hooking up with him was like being on fire it was so hot!!!

I have not had that in a loooooooooong time!!!

And for me a chemistry that has persisted. You know your heart, so I wish you a million happy magical moments.

It's interesting, the thing about chemistry, like with this guy, we have palpable chemistry, whereas with my ISTP perpetual ex, we have a sort of kinship click, if that makes sense. (It should be noted the ISTP and I have never had a great sex life, (even though I apparently rock his world)).

I am kinda scared of chemistry, I fear it might make me do silly things, hence the reason why I am reaching out to you guys, I am sincerely confused.

Or am I embarrassed?

Should I be, that he isn't well-educated, or necessarily well-bred?

Thanks again for your support, still processing though.

Oh, thinking about him, and talking to him makes me smile, doesn't that count for something?

It depends on what you're looking for.

Compatibility-wise, do you want someone who understands you (probably another N) or accepts you for who you are (S)?

I am aware of the non-mutual-exclusiveness but yeah, I do believe that opposites are good for each other.

I agree. ESTJs are so real.

Hahahaa, every guy who has ever understood me, or has gotten close to understanding me has been more feminine, thereby making the relationship more platonic by nature.

When I dated the ESJ, he *knew* he didn't understand me, and he was *okay* with that!

I felt totally accepted by him, he just thought I was a crazy, smart, quirky, tornado of a girl, and we just had great times together.

I guess what I am realizing is that I am kind of an intellectual snob when it comes to dating, if I think I am your intellectual superior, usually you won't even get a chance with me.

But, is the ability to critically analyze poetry and, or, solve geometric proofs the sole basis for love?

I think not!

Thank you soooooo much for your input guys, I would love to hear more, if you got any!!

Much love

-CC

 

[violaine]

Hmmm, well I was with an XSTJ for a while. I really admired him and still do, I liked his seriousness and that he took me seriously and we were also very good at any kind of business we undertook together. BUT after a time his incessant concrete realism and his inability to take risks really got to me. I felt like my wings were clipped through much of that relationship. A large part of me just withered, the imaginative part and the way I connect with someone through discussion of ideas (which is a way that I feel really close to someone) had no outlet with him.

He was also very controlling in that he couldn't really see things big-picture style and so would stomp on my ideas when I was trying to achieve something that wouldn't be immediate. i.e. I couldn't count on support from him until I'd had a measure of success in something I was doing which was really upsetting to me at the time. It took a lot of my energy to buck his very cautious approach to the world.

*sigh*

But, this was an early relationship for me so I don't know if I would feel differently in your shoes CC after what you have expressed. I might be willing to be with someone as upstanding as he was provided I had stimulation from other sources. The way he was just got very stifling after a while, so I guess that is all I would look out for if I were with someone like him again. Though it seems dangerous to me to seek the kind of connection I need outside a relationship because intellectual connection often leads to attraction for me.

Having said all of that, I would say give it go! The XSTJ I was with had many, many good qualities, it's just that where we didn't connect was particularly difficult for me. And all the best and *hugs hugs hugs* whatever you decide!

 

[SillySapienne]

Intellectual attraction definitely leads to romantic attraction for me too!!

In fact, I am often attracted to several people at any given time, though when in a relationship I do not act on that attraction, (I have emotionally cheated, before, however).

I think if my ISTP was living in the same city as me, and was not, *literally*, in Kigali, Rwanda for more than half of the freaking year, then I'd probably be with him.

I just need a little domesticity in a relationship, right now, I think.

I am so tired of dealing with LDRs!!!!

I want to be able to see my man on an almost daily basis, is that too much to ask for?

Oh, and thanks for the feedback sanveane!

 

[violaine]

Wow, Rwanda. Gah! Yeah, LDRs without an end in sight are tough. I think an experience like that would make me so appreciative of daily connection with my fella that that might be all I need to make me happy for a while.

 

[Drezoryx]

if no one minds ill talk about my esxj gf, reading the above makes me re-acknowledge the value my esxj gf much better, i was getting a little biased and overwhelmed by how lowly esfj were portrayed somewhere else on this site.

say, i've got to be literal with her in picking words i speak and theres not much scope for stimulating intellectual discussion. Its not all bad, now i realize every time i use a sentence or word which is capable of double interpretation, her facial expression drops just a bit, its essential for anyone contemplating public speaking, so as not to have the audience misinterpret you and still convey your idea clearly. thanks to her constantly misinterpreting me lol.

besides shes a sweetheart rock solid and the envy or suspicioun of your partner cheating etc. is simply not there with her. very very dependable. one less thing to endlessly ruminate in our NF brain