nyxphei
New member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2021
- Messages
- 8
- MBTI Type
- void
- Enneagram
- 946
- Instinctual Variant
- sp
Has anyone else really looked into Enneagrammer’s celebrity typings and noticed certain inconsistencies between their type descriptions and how they actually type people? In particular with regards to enneagram 4s and 5s. And it’s not just one or two, there are quite a few examples which makes me skeptical about their super strict definition about 4 – I agree that 4 is overtyped however not to the point that pretty much everyone is a 6 or 9, and I do not see why 4 fixes should be super rare either. I pretty much agree with them about these people’s types, however according to their definition I’m not sure why they are typing them as such or why they are defining type 4 to such a strict degree. I would confront them directly however they won't actually let me join their facebook group since I have no social media.
Some examples I saw (out of people I know fairly well):
Fours:
- Chelsea Wolfe, who they type as 4w5 sp/sx. Yet she is a self described empath and talks quite a bit about being very sensitive to energies and even becoming overwhelmed by people’s energy, which enneagrammer especially sees as a red flag for 9. She has also described in an interview how as a teenager she ‘tried to fade into the background’ and ‘go with the flow’ despite having an ‘inner rebellion’ that would occasionally erupt and her ‘unexpressed self would come out’ when she became sick of whatever she was ‘pretending to fit in with’ or ‘had fallen into’. This honestly really surprised me because it was extremely 9ish even to me, and especially seems strange for a social blind 4.
- Johnny Depp, who they type as so/sx 4w5 468 (not sure why 8 fix since he seems very chill and easy-going? Honestly doesn’t even come across as elitist or whatever). My problem here is how enneagrammer attributes ‘celebrating being special’ to 6-9 (but then what exactly does the 4 feel elitist about if not with regards to being different and special?), yet Depp has so many quotes about being true to oneself and in fact literally celebrates weirdness in this quote: “I think everybody's weird. We should all celebrate our individuality and not be embarrassed or ashamed of it.”
- Another self described empath, Nostalghia, who is typed 4w3 sx/sp. I don’t know her that well but reading an interview it seems that she really has a deep connection to nature and desire to heal others which I bet enneagrammer would usually say is 9.
- David Bowie who they type as 4w3 sp/sx 478, I have no clue why he is typed as such when he is very 3ish in general, and he even made this ridiculously anti-4 statement: “I’ve always been a very curious and enthusiastic person from when I was a teenager. It really wasn't up to me to try and identify exactly what that meant. I just had to accept that I was a person with a very short attention span who would move from one thing to another quite rapidly when I got bored with the other. I became comfortable with that and didn't try to identify myself or try and ask myself who I was. The less questioning I did about myself as to who I was, the more comfortable I felt. So now I have absolutely no knowledge of who I am, and I'm extremely happy".
- Lana Del Rey who they type as so/sx 4w3 496 (I think she is 4w3 or 2w3) however she has also said some rather non-4ish things such as wanting to be a “gangster Nancy Sinatra” – doesn’t seem like their description of 4 being sickened by the thought of being predictable. Also she has stated that “I didn’t feel trapped in a trailer park. I felt trapped before I got to the trailer park because I had nowhere to live. When I got my trailer, everyone there had the same taste as I did. We all liked giant, lush, fake flower gardens and liked to decorate the walls with streamers even if it wasn’t our birthday. I couldn’t have been happier there.”, which completely lacks any extreme dislike of being on the same page as anyone or the constant frustration that they describe 4 to have.
- I even have a problem with Bob Dylan who they type as 4w5 sx/so 478, yet who started off his career practically imitating his hero Woody Guthrie, literally copying his singing style which strikes me as weird for a 4 who enneagrammer claims would be constantly rejecting outside influences, and honestly seems more 6ish to me. (I consider him to have a 6 fix).
- Their favourite four, Marilyn Manson (typed as 4w5 so/sp 468) also obviously actively tries to be different and stand out, and again I think ennegrammer likes to claim that trying to be different/seeing yourself as different from others as well as so many other 4ish things is 6-9 for whatever reason, which I disagree with because I don’t believe the 4’s individuation process is as unconscious as they claim. Certainly a lot of type 4 celebrities seem very aware of their individuality and express a distaste for being normal. Also they really like to use Manson as an example of 4 which I find can be a bit extreme considering his triple reactive tritype and general issues outside of type.
Fives:
- Tim Burton, who they type as 5w4 so/sx (which I disagree with, I consider him a 4w5 if not 4w3). Really doesn’t seem to be a head type based on these quotes: ‘I've always been more comfortable making my decisions from the subconscious level, or more emotionally, because I find it is more truthful to me; Intellectually, I don't think like that because I get uncomfortable.’ and ‘It's hard to find logic in things sometimes. That's why I can't analyze things too much, because it often doesn't make much sense.’ This is interesting to me in particular because one of the reasons enneagrammer types David Lynch as a 9w1 rather than 5w4 is because he doesn’t like things to make sense in his movies and also loves to rely on his subconscious. Talks a lot about feeling alienated and in my opinion his movies really seem to actively celebrate being weird. Also doesn’t describe himself as a dark person.
- Kurt Cobain, typed as 5w4 548 sp/sx. Again I see him as a 4w5 since he talks so much about his feelings of shame and his envy of a ‘normal childhood’ after his parents’ divorce. I feel like enneagrammer seems to kind of ignore the topic of envy for fours in general. An interesting thing also is that he was actually rather ambitious and genuinely desired fame at first, which almost seems to suggest some kind of 3 influence especially considering he is soc blind, and seems quite confusing if he is a 5w4. Also talked about really being sensitive and said stuff like “There's good in all of us and I think I simply love people too much, so much that it makes me feel too fucking sad.” which just doesn't really fit the disconnect of soc blind 5w4.
- Franz Kafka, typed as 5w4 sx/sp (I see him as either 5w4 or 6w5). The problem here is how much enneagrammer emphasises 5’s lack of desire to socially connect with people, even social 5s it seems. Yet Franz Kafka seemed to have had major issues with strongly wishing to connect with his father and earn his respect, which seems a bit odd considering their emphasis on 5w4 and soc last not desiring to ‘connect’.
Apart from this there are also quite a few people who I have no idea why enneagrammer types them a certain way but that's a different issue.
Some examples I saw (out of people I know fairly well):
Fours:
- Chelsea Wolfe, who they type as 4w5 sp/sx. Yet she is a self described empath and talks quite a bit about being very sensitive to energies and even becoming overwhelmed by people’s energy, which enneagrammer especially sees as a red flag for 9. She has also described in an interview how as a teenager she ‘tried to fade into the background’ and ‘go with the flow’ despite having an ‘inner rebellion’ that would occasionally erupt and her ‘unexpressed self would come out’ when she became sick of whatever she was ‘pretending to fit in with’ or ‘had fallen into’. This honestly really surprised me because it was extremely 9ish even to me, and especially seems strange for a social blind 4.
- Johnny Depp, who they type as so/sx 4w5 468 (not sure why 8 fix since he seems very chill and easy-going? Honestly doesn’t even come across as elitist or whatever). My problem here is how enneagrammer attributes ‘celebrating being special’ to 6-9 (but then what exactly does the 4 feel elitist about if not with regards to being different and special?), yet Depp has so many quotes about being true to oneself and in fact literally celebrates weirdness in this quote: “I think everybody's weird. We should all celebrate our individuality and not be embarrassed or ashamed of it.”
- Another self described empath, Nostalghia, who is typed 4w3 sx/sp. I don’t know her that well but reading an interview it seems that she really has a deep connection to nature and desire to heal others which I bet enneagrammer would usually say is 9.
- David Bowie who they type as 4w3 sp/sx 478, I have no clue why he is typed as such when he is very 3ish in general, and he even made this ridiculously anti-4 statement: “I’ve always been a very curious and enthusiastic person from when I was a teenager. It really wasn't up to me to try and identify exactly what that meant. I just had to accept that I was a person with a very short attention span who would move from one thing to another quite rapidly when I got bored with the other. I became comfortable with that and didn't try to identify myself or try and ask myself who I was. The less questioning I did about myself as to who I was, the more comfortable I felt. So now I have absolutely no knowledge of who I am, and I'm extremely happy".
- Lana Del Rey who they type as so/sx 4w3 496 (I think she is 4w3 or 2w3) however she has also said some rather non-4ish things such as wanting to be a “gangster Nancy Sinatra” – doesn’t seem like their description of 4 being sickened by the thought of being predictable. Also she has stated that “I didn’t feel trapped in a trailer park. I felt trapped before I got to the trailer park because I had nowhere to live. When I got my trailer, everyone there had the same taste as I did. We all liked giant, lush, fake flower gardens and liked to decorate the walls with streamers even if it wasn’t our birthday. I couldn’t have been happier there.”, which completely lacks any extreme dislike of being on the same page as anyone or the constant frustration that they describe 4 to have.
- I even have a problem with Bob Dylan who they type as 4w5 sx/so 478, yet who started off his career practically imitating his hero Woody Guthrie, literally copying his singing style which strikes me as weird for a 4 who enneagrammer claims would be constantly rejecting outside influences, and honestly seems more 6ish to me. (I consider him to have a 6 fix).
- Their favourite four, Marilyn Manson (typed as 4w5 so/sp 468) also obviously actively tries to be different and stand out, and again I think ennegrammer likes to claim that trying to be different/seeing yourself as different from others as well as so many other 4ish things is 6-9 for whatever reason, which I disagree with because I don’t believe the 4’s individuation process is as unconscious as they claim. Certainly a lot of type 4 celebrities seem very aware of their individuality and express a distaste for being normal. Also they really like to use Manson as an example of 4 which I find can be a bit extreme considering his triple reactive tritype and general issues outside of type.
Fives:
- Tim Burton, who they type as 5w4 so/sx (which I disagree with, I consider him a 4w5 if not 4w3). Really doesn’t seem to be a head type based on these quotes: ‘I've always been more comfortable making my decisions from the subconscious level, or more emotionally, because I find it is more truthful to me; Intellectually, I don't think like that because I get uncomfortable.’ and ‘It's hard to find logic in things sometimes. That's why I can't analyze things too much, because it often doesn't make much sense.’ This is interesting to me in particular because one of the reasons enneagrammer types David Lynch as a 9w1 rather than 5w4 is because he doesn’t like things to make sense in his movies and also loves to rely on his subconscious. Talks a lot about feeling alienated and in my opinion his movies really seem to actively celebrate being weird. Also doesn’t describe himself as a dark person.
- Kurt Cobain, typed as 5w4 548 sp/sx. Again I see him as a 4w5 since he talks so much about his feelings of shame and his envy of a ‘normal childhood’ after his parents’ divorce. I feel like enneagrammer seems to kind of ignore the topic of envy for fours in general. An interesting thing also is that he was actually rather ambitious and genuinely desired fame at first, which almost seems to suggest some kind of 3 influence especially considering he is soc blind, and seems quite confusing if he is a 5w4. Also talked about really being sensitive and said stuff like “There's good in all of us and I think I simply love people too much, so much that it makes me feel too fucking sad.” which just doesn't really fit the disconnect of soc blind 5w4.
- Franz Kafka, typed as 5w4 sx/sp (I see him as either 5w4 or 6w5). The problem here is how much enneagrammer emphasises 5’s lack of desire to socially connect with people, even social 5s it seems. Yet Franz Kafka seemed to have had major issues with strongly wishing to connect with his father and earn his respect, which seems a bit odd considering their emphasis on 5w4 and soc last not desiring to ‘connect’.
Apart from this there are also quite a few people who I have no idea why enneagrammer types them a certain way but that's a different issue.
i have been watching the trainwreck of enneagramer for a minute now, i'm glad i'm not alone in noticing this stuff. every sx/sp 4w5 they have is like some over-the-top goth caricature apart from river phoenix lol. also i just feel like they're full on trying to start a cult (and it's working?).
