[Type 3] Cool 3w4s?

[Mal12345]

I read somewhere once that 4s can develop 8-like behaviors. But I wonder how 4 ties in with how you express things from the "gut," and have done so since you were little.

 

[Elfboy]

if we're going by what you just wrote i am 3w2 more than 3w4.

and i dont judge people for their inferior traits. so cant relate to this... i am more like: my main goal in everything in life is to be The Best. 60% the best is what others think is the best, and 40% I define what is the best (for example, if getting an A in boring course is considered the best, i'll rather be the cool one and get a B with least amount of studying and in my own eyes i will be the best in the story because i know i could get A if i studied).

sorry if that was a little harsh, I was describing lower level 3w2s. for me, it's about 98% what I think is the best. I want to do what I think is impressive, classy, successful, but I want people to know I did it. perhaps you're right and this is 4w3 as opposed to 3w4
PS: so is what your saying basically that you're motivated a lot by what other people think is cool, but you care more about knowing you can do it than actually doing it and being able to brag about it?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

the difference between 3w4 and 3w2 is that for 3w2 it's all about "how do I impress my friends? what's popular? what kind of cool stuff can I get/do?" for 3w4s, status is more of an idea. they still want attention, but only the best kind from the best people. the concern is more on "being" superior than "looking" superior.

No. 3w4s are like 3w2s, they are focused on success that they can perform, they easily know what look "superior". But hardly what "being" superior means. 3w4s want more than 3w2s to be "special" like 4s. But the difference with 4w3s is that they actually try to "do" something special while 4w3s really try to "feel" special. 3w4s identify with what they do, 4w3s with their feelings. 3w4s are "human doing" in their style, 4w3s are "human feeling" in their style.

 

[Chloe]

sorry if that was a little harsh, I was describing lower level 3w2s. for me, it's about 98% what I think is the best. I want to do what I think is impressive, classy, successful, but I want people to know I did it. perhaps you're right and this is 4w3 as opposed to 3w4
PS: so is what your saying basically that you're motivated a lot by what other people think is cool, but you care more about knowing you can do it than actually doing it and being able to brag about it?

i think my unhealthy tendency is to want to please what others want. for example, i had to pick psychology school (there are 2 colleges in my city), and i picked less popular one bc i had better vibe about it (more relaxed, easy going crowd, also, i get to be the best there without less effort than in more classy one ), but again, i am a bit bothered that some people think i didnt get into more popular one so i want them to know that i chose less popular one, and not that i had to go there
so i want both.. but those are unhealthy tendencies, of course i have to do in the end what i want for myself in order to be happy.

 

[Elfboy]

did you read "inner child" of each type ?


you look like you want to be special... much more 4 than 3 (fuck the wings!)

sort of, I want to be "superior" but superior on my own terms. essentially, I'm a 3 except I am trying to impress/give attention to myself (narcissistic I know lol)

 

[Elfboy]

I read somewhere once that 4s can develop 8-like behaviors. But I wonder how 4 ties in with how you express things from the "gut," and have done so since you were little.

1 connection

 

[Mal12345]

1 connection

Hmmm. Nope. 1s only express their instincts indirectly, in the manner of reforming others or society in general. 8s express their instincts directly and aggressively.

 

[Mal12345]

That's why these threads are so confusing. I can abandon the idea of 6w5 (my ego isn't centered around that idea) and go back to 8w9. Your bio states that at one point, before the 8th grade, you went into withdrawal in order to think about your social problems. That describes the 8 stressing to point 5. And the 8w9 (the Bear) resonates with the 3w4 (the Professional).

http://business.nmsu.edu/~dboje/teaching/490_psl/images_mb/myers_briggs_enneagram.jpg

http://www.9types.com/writeup/enneagram.html
Edit: "Motivators (3s) and 8s are both competitive, and both push others to get get things done. But 3s goals tend to be oriented around building their positive self-image, while 8s prefer to be respected, even if this means being disliked or even hated."

 

[Nomenclature]

I do think Lisa Simpson is an 1w2, though, with her always being "the perfect student" and "doing The Right Thing" and whatnot... Maybe I haven't watched enough of the show, though.

A 1's emphasis is on moral consistency. 3's to a greater extent try to embody PERSONAL perfection. Does anybody remember the "Lisa's Rival" episode?

"Lisa's Rival" is the second episode of The Simpsons' sixth season, and originally aired September 11, 1994. It was the first episode to be written by Mike Scully, and was directed by Mark Kirkland. Winona Ryder guest stars as Allison Taylor, a new student at Springfield Elementary School. Lisa Simpson begins to feel threatened by Allison because she is smarter, younger and a better saxophone player than she is. Their rivalry reaches a climax at the school's diorama contest, as Lisa plans to sabotage Allison's entry.

But to be clear, that isn't to say that 3's all sabotage-- it's just one example of how competitiveness can manifest.

it's possible to be a 3w4 and NOT care what others think? hmm
still, I don't really relate to the feeling useless if nothing gets done. my question is, why does one need to have a use. why is useless such a bad thing?

There's a difference between needing to feel useful and be acknowledged for the shit you do, and living for admiration.

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody heard it, did it really fall? If you lived your entire life and nobody knew you, did you really exist or matter? It's not quite the same thing, but the perspective is similar. To a 3, BEING great doesn't mean shit if you don't DO great things.

Following, I have two relevant quotes; one from John Green and one a dialogue from Kyle XY between its namesake and his counterpart.

What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? How very odd, to believe God gave you life, and yet not think that life asks more of you than watching TV.

Jessi: I did something this morning that someone saw.
And by this afternoon, she had told three friends.
And if those three friends tell three more, by this weekend, I'll have half of Seattle in my backyard waiting for me to do something extraordinary.
What's so wrong with that?

Kyle: Because then I won't be able to relax in my backyard. I won't be able to enjoy a quiet breakfast with my family or a walk in the park with Amanda.
I wanna figure out what I'm gonna do with my life without people watching me, always waiting to see what I might do.

Jessi: At least people would notice you.

Kyle: Jessi, life shouldn't be about getting noticed.

Jessi: Look around.
That girl over there tosses her hair every time a new guy walks into the room.
And those guys? They're pretending to read magazines. But really they're waiting to see if the girl wiping the counter is looking at them.
And the girl wiping the counter is wearing a shirt that's two sizes too small so that the magazine guys will watch her.
Hillary's decided to make a career out of being fabulous because girls that look just like her are on most of the covers of the magazines they sell here.
So do you really think that life isn't about getting noticed?

Btw:

I friggin hate 3s! they're emotionally weak... dependent on others...

Uhm, no. Emphasis on versatility and self-sufficiency is emotional weakness or co-dependency? Not quite.

insecure

Happens in all types. Not 3-specific.

fake... and shallow.

I'm more real than most of the fucktards at my school, and I'm to other students an icon of not just raising the bar and pushing myself, but also noncomformity as a side effect of having been true to myself and standing my ground, whether for my causes, or for myself in the face of bullshit.

And no, I'm certainly not posting in this thread just so you can feel better about yourself. But if someone wants to make an argument that I'm not a 3 or ISTP, I'll happily make a "type me" thread.

 

[Mal12345]

Also:

8s with 9 wings are an interesting subtype. The 9 wing considerably softens the traits of the 8, making the 8w9 much harder to recognize and understand than a pure 8. Don Riso notes that the 8w9 often holds their power "in reserve". 8w9s are often underestimated, because they can look like mild-mannered 9s one day, only to unleash their aggressive 8 side the next.

http://www.9types.com/writeup/enneagram.html

 

[Speed Gavroche]

i think my unhealthy tendency is to want to please what others want. for example, i had to pick psychology school (there are 2 colleges in my city), and i picked less popular one bc i had better vibe about it (more relaxed, easy going crowd, also, i get to be the best there without less effort than in more classy one ), but again, i am a bit bothered that some people think i didnt get into more popular one so i want them to know that i chose less popular one, and not that i had to go there
so i want both.. but those are unhealthy tendencies, of course i have to do in the end what i want for myself in order to be happy.

Oh yes. Whayt I meant is that 3s always know that "what they do" is cool but less that "they are" cool.

A 1's emphasis is on moral consistency. 3's to a greater extent try to embody PERSONAL perfection. Does anybody remember the "Lisa's Rival" episode?

Good point there's also this episode:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_President_Wore_Pearls

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody heard it, did it really fall? If you lived your entire life and nobody knew you, did you really exist or matter? It's not quite the same thing, but the perspective is similar. To a 3, BEING great doesn't mean shit if you don't DO great things.

Yes, you summarized it pretty well.

 

[brainheart]

I was going to say if not 4w5 then 5w4, the "Iconoclast." Lisa's ANSIR type is definitely "Philosopher." And her MBTI is INFP. If 1w2 then I would have to consider her rather neurotic. And she would have J not P.

The INFPs have a dichotomized attitude toward the world. They treat their immediate surroundings as less important than the larger, grander social causes which inform their value systems. These social causes and such bring out the appearance of a J when they judiciously apply themselves to the cause.

Should I use this to type myself? The joke in my family is that I'm a total lisa simpson.

Elf, I already told you: my awesome 3w4 infp friend, who is nothing close to any of the stereotypes you listed.

 

[Elfboy]

A 1's emphasis is on moral consistency. 3's to a greater extent try to embody PERSONAL perfection. Does anybody remember the "Lisa's Rival" episode?

But to be clear, that isn't to say that 3's all sabotage-- it's just one example of how competitiveness can manifest.

There's a difference between needing to feel useful and be acknowledged for the shit you do, and living for admiration.

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody heard it, did it really fall? If you lived your entire life and nobody knew you, did you really exist or matter? It's not quite the same thing, but the perspective is similar. To a 3, BEING great doesn't mean shit if you don't DO great things.

Following, I have two relevant quotes; one from John Green and one a dialogue from Kyle XY between its namesake and his counterpart.





Btw:

Uhm, no. Emphasis on versatility and self-sufficiency is emotional weakness or co-dependency? Not quite.

Happens in all types. Not 3-specific.

I'm more real than most of the fucktards at my school, and I'm to other students an icon of not just raising the bar and pushing myself, but also noncomformity as a side effect of having been true to myself and standing my ground, whether for my causes, or for myself in the face of bullshit.

And no, I'm certainly not posting in this thread just so you can feel better about yourself. But if someone wants to make an argument that I'm not a 3 or ISTP, I'll happily make a "type me" thread.

sorry if I offended you, I was totally venting when I made this thread title

 

[brainheart]

Lisa in not a 4w5 at all. She is a 3w4 So/Sp. She's not into melancholy, does'nt feel like there was somrthing deficient in her image. She is upbeat, energetic, optimistic and idealistic. 4s dispressed idealist, 3w4 are optimistic idealist, Lisa is a compulsive hard worker who jump from task to task, from result to result, embrace causes and adopt codes and behavior of every group she wants to adhere, does'nt matter if she is finally often disapointed, she does'nt imagine the possibility to be disapointed.

And that is a totally different orientation from 4. 4s are moody, and perpetually disatisfied about what they have, always feeling that the best is somewhere else. Lisa is not moody, and she embrace what is motivating front to her quicky, without any doybt.

She's not a 1w2, because despite she is a very moral person, she has not specific anger issues. Lisa is focused on result. 1s are focused on the right way to do things, about always doing things right, wich make them anxious and angry about those who are not as strict on themselves than them. Lisa have no ressentment at all against all the dilletants around her. They usually do one thing at a time, one right thing at a time. Lisa is involed on tons of things at the same time, and in everything she does, she cares about results results wich can be performed.

That's why she likes school, because she is noted, I emember one episode where the school is closed, and she must stay at home without anything to do. Wich is the hardest sthing for a 3, and Lisa become histeric, she needs to be noted and even supplies Marge to give her an exercise, she need to permorm task and results, and resent strongly when people are more succesful than her. She is concerned about succes, as a Social 3, she's typycally interested with integrate elititist groups like Harvard or school for overgifted.

She is easyly trapped by what gratify her ego and her image at the point to lose herself and be maniopulated. Many episodes, like "the president wore pearls" (XV;3) for example, show that she is a 3. As a So-first, she's naturally more concerned with the larger world than the limited area of the nuclear family. But for her MBTI type, it's pretty clear that she's ENFJ.

She's not like that at all in the earliest seasons. She likes knowledge for the sake of knowledge, is made fun of at school, philosophizes nonstop and plays the blues on her sax. In other words, she's a fictional character whose personality changes for the sake of an episode.

In this non-achieving concept you have of 4w5s, I would recommend you strike sylvia plath from your list of em. She was a major school star.

 

[Chloe]

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody heard it, did it really fall? If you lived your entire life and nobody knew you, did you really exist or matter? It's not quite the same thing, but the perspective is similar. To a 3, BEING great doesn't mean shit if you don't DO great things.

this got me laughing a lot, because i didnt even understand at first (read) HOW can one BE great if s/he doesnt DO great things.
you cant just BE great... you are what you DO.....

i guess my enneagram fixation has much greater power over me than i've thought!


***
as for cool 3s, i must admit that 3s are my favorite people (allong with 8s), because even those that i despise because they're fake in public eye, are incredibly genuine in person. no matter mbti type, i know a lot of 3s (ENTP,ESTJ,ENFJ) who have something in common : quest for truth and honesty. they can be very obsessed with being true to themselves because they feel their fake tendencies (all 3 from example are very obsessed with being themselves, even ESTJ, and ENTP guy really became one of the most not-fake people i know)
Also, what i like about 3s i know, is that they are reliable more than most other types. in closer relationships. once you're in, you're in.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

She's not like that at all in the earliest seasons. She likes knowledge for the sake of knowledge, is made fun of at school, philosophizes nonstop and plays the blues on her sax.

So what? Elsewhere, she's like that during the entire show. Do we need to be 4w5 to do that?

n other words, she's a fictional character whose personality changes for the sake of an episode.

No. She is a consistent character with a constant persoanlity.

In this non-achieving concept you have of 4w5s, I would recommend you strike sylvia plath from your list of em. She was a major school star.

I did'nt say 4w5s are non-achivers, simply that their mode of attention is totally different that the mode of attention of Lisa.

 

[Sparrow]

I might be a 3w4, the trouble is...I friggin hate 3s! they're emotionally weak, insecure, fake, dependent on others and shallow. so do any of you guys know any cool 3w4s that would make me feel any better in the event that I am indeed a 3w4 sp/sx?

You friggin hate 3's? Well geesh, thanks your such a doll . 3's aint so bad I kinda like being a 3w4, I am driven, outgoing, etc, etc., and I am definitley not fake and shallow. How many 3's do you know? Wowzers. Anyway here is some info for ya (from enneagraminstitute.com), which includes good stuff about 3's !!

"Type Three in Brief

Threes are self-assured, attractive, and charming. Ambitious, competent, and energetic, they can also be status-conscious and highly driven for advancement. They are diplomatic and poised, but can also be overly concerned with their image and what others think of them. They typically have problems with workaholism and competitiveness. At their Best: self-accepting, authentic, everything they seem to be—role models who inspire others.

Examples: Bill Clinton, Oprah Winfrey, Jane Pauley, Michael Landon, Tony Robbins, Tom Cruise, Barbra Streisand, Sharon Stone, Madonna, Shirley MacLaine, Sting, Paul McCartney, Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Ted Danson, Michael Jordan, Shania Twain, Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarznegger, Billy Dee Williams, Kathy Lee Gifford, Truman Capote, O.J. Simpson, and Barack Obama."



Isn't Leanardo DiCaprio a 3w4 too? I saw that floating around on the internet somewhere .

 

[Elfboy]

You friggin hate 3's? Well geesh, thanks your such a doll . 3's aint so bad I kinda like being a 3w4, I am driven, outgoing, etc, etc., and I am definitley not fake and shallow. How many 3's do you know? Wowzers. Anyway here is some info for ya (from enneagraminstitute.com), which includes good stuff about 3's !!

"Type Three in Brief

Threes are self-assured, attractive, and charming. Ambitious, competent, and energetic, they can also be status-conscious and highly driven for advancement. They are diplomatic and poised, but can also be overly concerned with their image and what others think of them. They typically have problems with workaholism and competitiveness. At their Best: self-accepting, authentic, everything they seem to be—role models who inspire others.

Examples: Bill Clinton, Oprah Winfrey, Jane Pauley, Michael Landon, Tony Robbins, Tom Cruise, Barbra Streisand, Sharon Stone, Madonna, Shirley MacLaine, Sting, Paul McCartney, Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Ted Danson, Michael Jordan, Shania Twain, Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarznegger, Billy Dee Williams, Kathy Lee Gifford, Truman Capote, O.J. Simpson, and Barack Obama."



Isn't Leanardo DiCaprio a 3w4 too? I saw that floating around on the internet somewhere .

the OP was kind of a vent cuz I was scared of being a 3

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Leonardo DiCarpio is a 7w6 So/Sx.

 

[Sparrow]

the OP was kind of a vent cuz I was scared of being a 3

Dont be scurred embrace your 3'ness!