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Cold war 2.0

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,131
Tories pick first Black woman to lead a major UK political party

UK Conservative Party elects Kemi Badenoch as new leader


It seems that UK conservatives decided to take me on my bet. Which was that if she takes over the party Farage will take over the right wing part of the spectrum in UK. It probably wouldn't be too long before we find out where all of this is going.




United Kingdom — 2024 election results

When you take a look at the polling average that is lower in the page the numbers are pretty exact. Farage is just 6% behind conservatives and only 10% behind ruling the Labor.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,131
Tories pick first Black woman to lead a major UK political party

UK Conservative Party elects Kemi Badenoch as new leader


It seems that UK conservatives decided to take me on my bet. Which was that if she takes over the party Farage will take over the right wing part of the spectrum in UK. It probably wouldn't be too long before we find out where all of this is going.




United Kingdom — 2024 election results

When you take a look at the polling average that is lower in the page the numbers are pretty exact. Farage is just 6% behind conservatives and only 10% behind ruling the Labor.


I am reading some comments over this and there seems to be a huge backlash from the base over this. What in the end means that there will be quite visible consequences over this decision.

As a matter of fact something like year ago the main conservative party in the Netherlands has done exactly this with Turkish woman. What created such a surge of hard right that main left wing and main right wing party together couldn't match the numbers of the hard right. Therefore this era still lasts because hard right did pretty well in elections.


Plus it can be argued that this will give Trump nudge right before the finish line (for obvious reasons).
 

Lark

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,682
Tories pick first Black woman to lead a major UK political party

UK Conservative Party elects Kemi Badenoch as new leader


It seems that UK conservatives decided to take me on my bet. Which was that if she takes over the party Farage will take over the right wing part of the spectrum in UK. It probably wouldn't be too long before we find out where all of this is going.




United Kingdom — 2024 election results

When you take a look at the polling average that is lower in the page the numbers are pretty exact. Farage is just 6% behind conservatives and only 10% behind ruling the Labor.

In England, if there are further right wing surges in England (and of course in Northern Ireland was they think in a very, very similar fashion to the Engish despite the English thinking they are scum and always will be), it could cause the disintegration of the UK.

Part of the regional nationalisms in the UK has always been that they experience a surge when it appears like the English, and westminister in particular, have totally lost it in one way or another. Its when more than the "faithful" are willing to vote for independence / separatism, largely as they see little option about it.

The Irish Republicans really hit upon something when they decided to make peace, as English nationalism has become a far greater threat to the UK's integrity than the IRA ever where likely to be.

That the peace process resulted in racist and sectarian legacy elements being transplanted from NI itself to England where they found a home among the cocaine hooligan crime gangs there.

A lot more is determined in the political scene in ROI and UK by the traffic of cocaine than people realise, a lot of the racist upheavels and violence are the perfect diversion of public and police attention when you want to move contraband and engage in criminal enterprise.

This is how you can find some pretty bizarre developments such as Tommy Robinson, UK racist, having a popular following among Dublin coke gangs.

Anyway, whether it is the precipitation the Farage needs or not I think remains to be seen, he is a complete Charlatan but most of the UK conservative party is.

I think their election of a black woman was the most cynical thing possible, entirely predictable given how that party has followed conservatism globally in its exhausted insistence of same old, same old.

The degeneracy of conservatism globally is a huge problem, its not all drug fuelled, it is in the UK, in other places it takes different shapes like war mongering, for everyone and not simply conservatism, personality cults and racism are just about exhausted too.
 

Lark

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,682

I think that the EU should build its relationship with China as an alternative to the age old Russia versus US battle for hegemony.

How does China deal with political islam or Zionism? How does it deal with illegal immigration? Why doesnt have those same problems? I'm also interested in what the Chinese solutions to problems in the middle east might be as they have an entirely different relationship to all the players out there than any of the Russian or American / UK do.

While there is the potential for some sort of ethno-nationalism to bleed into the CCP, I'm not sure it has yet, in theory it should be anathema to them, although the Black Dragon society was a thing at a time and if I'm not wrong they were instrumental in the creation of Tiawan, with which the CCP has that bizarre obsession.

It could be interesting if a future EU-China, Eurasia, political alliance managed to challenge the political dominance of ethno-nationalism internationally, once and for all.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,131
I think that the EU should build its relationship with China as an alternative to the age old Russia versus US battle for hegemony.

How does China deal with political islam or Zionism? How does it deal with illegal immigration? Why doesnt have those same problems? I'm also interested in what the Chinese solutions to problems in the middle east might be as they have an entirely different relationship to all the players out there than any of the Russian or American / UK do.

While there is the potential for some sort of ethno-nationalism to bleed into the CCP, I'm not sure it has yet, in theory it should be anathema to them, although the Black Dragon society was a thing at a time and if I'm not wrong they were instrumental in the creation of Tiawan, with which the CCP has that bizarre obsession.

It could be interesting if a future EU-China, Eurasia, political alliance managed to challenge the political dominance of ethno-nationalism internationally, once and for all.


Just in case this isn't a joke and you don't rally know about what you are talking about:



China is quite nationalistic country and it's rise is due to nationalistic and imperialistic intentions. The so called "rejuvenation of Chinese nation". In other words EU and China are quickly distancing one from another since the two are incompatible and directly at odds on most things. In the time of open globalization when we were all friends globally it was possible to work something out. But since we entered the era of de-globalization the connections are imploding quickly. The open trade war is already a reality and it doesn't stop there. EU is trying to vote out pretty much everyone that is pro China around the union, some of these people are even under various EU sanctions. Also in Ukraine EU and China are directly at war with one another, since Russian troops are basically just cannon fodder of China's imperialism. In other words without the help of China Russia would already lost ability to attack further. In other words now that Russian's are loosing steam and they lost plenty North Koreans are coming in as fresh cannon fodder, since they as well are just satellite of China. Due to China's direct influence on the war in Ukraine China lost pretty much all support among EU countries (with exception of it's own Trojan horses in the union). Which as I said are being pressured and thus they are being voted out.


Also China out of 200 countries in this world ranks very very poorly in the terms of media freedoms. Since only about 5 to 10 countries have worse numbers (and those tend to be their allies and satellites). Not to mention that there are no elections of any kind in China. Which is kinda why there is so little drama related to the image of the country. Since the place is far less democratic than any western country will ever be. This is exactly why you have camps for various minorities that don't want to play along (most of these people tends to be Muslims). In other words the government controls pretty much everything and thus it is trying to make things work. However if you don't agree with the vision of the government you are in problems.


Plus they don't have problem with illegal immigration mostly because pretty much no one want's to go in. Standard of living isn't that high, pollution is terrible in most parts of the country, there is no welfare state to serious degree, worker rights tends to be very low by western standars. Plus if they caught you the odds are that you are going into some camp for a while (at best). In other words as the government controls everything there isn't that much you can do there even if you want to lead a low profile life.


While when it comes to Middle east China evidently has imperialistic vision for the region. This is exactly why they pushed Saudi Arabia, Iran and UAE to join BRICS (that China is basically leading). While now Turkey is also going in this direction. Since the idea is to clear out the region of western influence and take all of the recources. This is exactly why EU started to put more recources into the region. Since the collective west must not lose too much gound in this vital the region. In a sense this is exactly why Isreal is so much in action these days. Because they are the only country that is cleary pro western in that part of the world. Plus EU gave the nood that it will stand with Taiwan in the case of war there.


So yeah, China and EU are turing into major rivals. Especially since China's nationalism is working on fragmenting the EU by pushing various anti system politicians such as Orban and company. Since the idea is to fragment EU from inside and then US will be easier to deal with. In a sense Brexit was part of that story and UK was thrown into a mess through Brexit. What means that now it is much weaker player globally. What at the end of the day is opening new paths for China. This is exactly why more and more EU countries are significantly lowering their ties with China. Since it is evident that the two can't be friends. In other words this is exactly why Japan, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan and similar countries are openly getting close to NATO. SInce it is evident that China has big plans.
 

Lark

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,682
Just in case this isn't a joke and you don't rally know about what you are talking about:



China is quite nationalistic country and it's rise is due to nationalistic and imperialistic intentions. The so called "rejuvenation of Chinese nation". In other words EU and China are quickly distancing one from another since the two are incompatible and directly at odds on most things. In the time of open globalization when we were all friends globally it was possible to work something out. But since we entered the era of de-globalization the connections are imploding quickly. The open trade war is already a reality and it doesn't stop there. EU is trying to vote out pretty much everyone that is pro China around the union, some of these people are even under various EU sanctions. Also in Ukraine EU and China are directly at war with one another, since Russian troops are basically just cannon fodder of China's imperialism. In other words without the help of China Russia would already lost ability to attack further. In other words now that Russian's are loosing steam and they lost plenty North Koreans are coming in as fresh cannon fodder, since they as well are just satellite of China. Due to China's direct influence on the war in Ukraine China lost pretty much all support among EU countries (with exception of it's own Trojan horses in the union). Which as I said are being pressured and thus they are being voted out.


Also China out of 200 countries in this world ranks very very poorly in the terms of media freedoms. Since only about 5 to 10 countries have worse numbers (and those tend to be their allies and satellites). Not to mention that there are no elections of any kind in China. Which is kinda why there is so little drama related to the image of the country. Since the place is far less democratic than any western country will ever be. This is exactly why you have camps for various minorities that don't want to play along (most of these people tends to be Muslims). In other words the government controls pretty much everything and thus it is trying to make things work. However if you don't agree with the vision of the government you are in problems.


Plus they don't have problem with illegal immigration mostly because pretty much no one want's to go in. Standard of living isn't that high, pollution is terrible in most parts of the country, there is no welfare state to serious degree, worker rights tends to be very low by western standars. Plus if they caught you the odds are that you are going into some camp for a while (at best). In other words as the government controls everything there isn't that much you can do there even if you want to lead a low profile life.


While when it comes to Middle east China evidently has imperialistic vision for the region. This is exactly why they pushed Saudi Arabia, Iran and UAE to join BRICS (that China is basically leading). While now Turkey is also going in this direction. Since the idea is to clear out the region of western influence and take all of the recources. This is exactly why EU started to put more recources into the region. Since the collective west must not lose too much gound in this vital the region. In a sense this is exactly why Isreal is so much in action these days. Because they are the only country that is cleary pro western in that part of the world. Plus EU gave the nood that it will stand with Taiwan in the case of war there.


So yeah, China and EU are turing into major rivals. Especially since China's nationalism is working on fragmenting the EU by pushing various anti system politicians such as Orban and company. Since the idea is to fragment EU from inside and then US will be easier to deal with. In a sense Brexit was part of that story and UK was thrown into a mess through Brexit. What means that now it is much weaker player globally. What at the end of the day is opening new paths for China. This is exactly why more and more EU countries are significantly lowering their ties with China. Since it is evident that the two can't be friends. In other words this is exactly why Japan, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan and similar countries are openly getting close to NATO. SInce it is evident that China has big plans.

Dismissing others points in a discussion in this fashion is shameful, I've noticed you do it repeatedly, it belies a difficulty in communication and you really should think about it.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,131
Dismissing others points in a discussion in this fashion is shameful, I've noticed you do it repeatedly, it belies a difficulty in communication and you really should think about it.

I covered current EU China relations, what is going on the Middle east regarding China, why China doesn't have problem with illegal immigration, Taiwan ... what is pretty much all of it from your post.


The real problem is that you don't like the content of my answer. Since it isn't pretty.
 

Lark

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,682
I covered current EU China relations, what is going on the Middle east regarding China, why China doesn't have problem with illegal immigration, Taiwan ... what is pretty much all of it from your post.


The real problem is that you don't like the content of my answer. Since it isn't pretty.

Well, you've told me repeatedly that I dont know what I'm talking about, which is no basis for discussion, I've seen you do the same with others on the forum here when they dont prove receptive of your, fairly limited, world view.

Mind how you go but decide whether its better to discussion things or just lecture some imaginary gallery will you.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,131
Well, you've told me repeatedly that I dont know what I'm talking about, which is no basis for discussion, I've seen you do the same with others on the forum here when they dont prove receptive of your, fairly limited, world view.

Mind how you go but decide whether its better to discussion things or just lecture some imaginary gallery will you.

Ok, the opening line was perhaps a little bit rude by the standard of English language. While by the standards of my culture this would be rude in the case that I put some sarcastic smiley face at the end of that line. Therefore this perhaps was a social mistake on my part.

It is just that I couldn't believe that you are advocating EU-China friendship when the both sides are evidently escalating tensions (and for good reasons). That was behind the opening line.
 

Lark

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,682
Ok, the opening line was perhaps a little bit rude by the standard of English language. While by the standards of my culture this would be rude in the case that I put some sarcastic smiley face at the end of that line. Therefore this perhaps was a social mistake on my part.

It is just that I couldn't believe that you are advocating EU-China friendship when the both sides are evidently escalating tensions (and for good reasons). That was behind the opening line.

Mind how you go.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
22,131
Mind how you go.



To tell you the truth what happened here is basically the problem of perspective. Especially since the two of us didn't have a chat for quite some time. In other words to you the current global mess is kinda abstract for the most part. You are pretty far out in Atlantic and the only genuine drama for you are elections in US. While for me that I am much more eastward from you the picture isn't as simple. Since I am much much closer to the war in Ukraine. Which is actually much much more complicated story than you would get out of a typical English speaking media. In other words the war has completely remade the energy flow in Eastern Europe since we had to dump Russian energy due to the war. Because if you help Ukraine you are basically in war with Russia and thus can't depend on them. Also the sanctions that the west did against Russia hit very hard all Russian assets around central/eastern Europe. Therefore many of those assets got nationalized or they are being sized and sold to new owners. What in Croatian case involves about 20% of GDP and therefore this isn't small operation, plus this is all kinda on the edge of law since we simply have to purge Russia out of the system.


That being said I am also in the middle of quite intense presidential elections, where the pressure is being made to vote out my pro Russian macho president (that is more rude than Trump). Therefore the insults and drama are flying everywhere and it isn't super clear how this is going to end. However in current situation we simply can't afford to have commander in chief that openly smears NATO and the whole west. Especially since the president even forbids the generals that they can talk to NATO officials or even the pubic. This is whole saga about which I can write pages. President doesn't allow generals to talk but pro western candiate says that the generals can say all of the dirty laundry out in public. Because if he wins he will clear all of their records. In other words if the generals stop listening to the president that is technically a coup.


Plus across wider region there is this establishment of pro Russian politicians that are causing chaos, but the only one that shows in global news is Orban. However there is an entire etablishment of political figures that are behaving like him. What is then causing serious erosion of EU at the eastern flank. Especially since these people don't want to decouple from Russia and openly prefer that Russia wins the war. Since that would mean that Russia would become neighbor again and then they could all declare their dictatorship. What would basically be undoing of the fall of Berlin wall. Orban, Fico, Babis, Vucic, Dodik, plenty of Bulgarians, local politicians .... etc. The entire ecosystem of politicians that are openly anti EU. However none of this would be possible that China doesn't fuel all of this either by money, resources or trolls. Some of these politicians are even building China owned factories on their territories. What means that China will have factories inside of EU free market zone. What means that it will be hard to remove them if you don't "amputate" some EU member states.


I mean this is just a tip of the iceberg of what is going on and now you come here and tell me "I think EU and China should be friends". What means that you have no real understanding of how thing are out at the field. Therefore for me that was simply tone deaf statement. I am basically in trenches and it isn't impossible that I will be in the real ones. Since the closest pro Russian tanks are just 50 miles away (and it isn't that my city didn't get it's "warning shoot"). The Ukraine mess is simply much much larger than it is presented on TV.


This is why my posts started with that "kinda rude line".

Just saying.
 
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