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Climate Change Alarmism

Doctor Cringelord

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A terrorist is anyone or group who's sole purpose is to use violence to push a political agenda. Thats exactly what Antifa is and doing. Your idea of terrorism probably defaults to groups like ISIS, but that isn't all terrorism. Then there is the distinction between a member of a group doing something bad, and an organization designed to do bad. Hence the reason the KKK and people like WBC are not labeled terrorists. Yet people like the Unabomber was. This being that the KKK doesn't enact violence for a political agenda, but usually take legal routes to follow their agenda (buying legal permits to protest etc). Even if you find their ideas harmful, its still protected by the first amendment. Antifa surrenders this right by attacking people, rioting, and burning down cities. While not all of them do (the useful idiots), the people controlling the operations want them to.

I don't support violence but given the way our police state is a terrorist institution (based on most definitions of the word), and comparing the extent and severity of violence and/or intimidation committed by the US police state vs that committed by Antifa, who do you think is the bigger terrorist threat?
 

Doctor Cringelord

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also [MENTION=37565]Maou[/MENTION], if you want to talk definitions, terrorism is usually defined as 'unlawful use of violence and intimidation against citizens in the pursuit of political goals.' so it's interesting you mention the KKK and excuse them from the label, when intimidating and using violence against citizens has been their MO in every incarnation of their organization since the 1870s. You sound like a KKK apologist. Not an adhominem attack, just looking at the historical facts on them and the definition of terrorism, since you're so keen on bringing it up and telling me I have a limited understanding of the word. Gaslighting at its worst.
 

Taito

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also [MENTION=37565]Maou[/MENTION], if you want to talk definitions, terrorism is usually defined as 'unlawful use of violence and intimidation against citizens in the pursuit of political goals.' so it's interesting you mention the KKK and excuse them from the label, when intimidating and using violence against citizens has been their MO in every incarnation of their organization since the 1870s. You sound like a KKK apologist. Not an adhominem attack, just looking at the historical facts on them and the definition of terrorism, since you're so keen on bringing it up and telling me I have a limited understanding of the word. Gaslighting at its worst.

I am just arguing the semantics. It is very important in this conversation that we all agree on what is, or is not a terrorist.

I don't know much about the KKK's history, but I do know time changes things. From what I have seen from the organization today, they are similar the the WBC and no where near as scary as they used to be. Are they breaking the law now? That is the question that should be asked now. For example, Illegal intimidation is defined by things like black mail, and harassment etc (what mafia, and pimps do). Words, and beliefs spouted at protests are not illegal intimidation. So even if they say things like "Black people are inferior", it is still protected by the first amendment, and not considered illegal intimidation.

Using the past to retroactively apply modern labels isn't viable, and has always been a taboo in law. Don't make me defend this shit, even if it is semantics. I am just saying the distinction is important to understand the situation against Antifa.

If you wanna talk about retroactively applying labels, remember, the KKK was connected with the Democratic party for a long time. Even if history revisionists try to cover that up.
 

Virtual ghost

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I dont recall saying grandchildren, if I did was a mistake! But I meant latter generations, without pontificating which. I dont have much idea of the speed rate of this, but it is indeed slow for our life span standards. It looks like that some people on the thread (not you) were waiting for some sort of climate change apocalypse for now and saying "nay, nothing happened, so it was all a lie and all pure alarmism" and I mean that this is a slow process. We are not expected to suddenly in a few years to have massive floods, super desertification, hypersummers and hot places becomes impossible to live due to them getting superhot. These things happens slowly! These things only come up that fast in movies!

But reversing it might be a slow process either, so the alarm is that we rather deal with it now because when the side effects gets disastrous, they will also take at least some decades to fade away even supposing that people "stop everything suddenly", meaning that an entire generation, in one way or another, would be doomed, if not the whole future of humanity.





Well, you said later generations and leads in the direction of grandchildren and further. While the basic logic is "this can only happen to someone else down the road, who will get hurt". While I am saying that since this climate story is going for over half a century those generations that will experience visible disruptions are already alive. Since we are the grandchildren from the story. It is true that the process is relatively slow but it is also very inert and you need the whole generations working on the clearly goal to counter this. Even if human mindset isn't really calibrated for that approach, for the most part.



It is true that things will never play out as the movies on the subject since that wouldn't really make the story that would sell. For the most part it is slow worsening of the situation but it is hard to stop it. However there there is something in the mix called "tipping points". Which mark passing of certain lines in a way that you can't go back or you are speeding up the process. The largest of them is melt away of the Northern polar ice cap. Which is getting more and more melt in the Summers and less and less freeze in the Winter, what creates "deficit" in ice as years slowly go by. The process isn't even linear but over the decades the volume of the ice cap is falling. However once it falls to zero the climate system will go into major restructuring, since one of the key cooling components will be gone. The cocktail doesn't really warm up on a beach that much as long as there is ice in it. However once the ice is gone the drinks starts to warm up more seriously. While the same works for the whole planet.



Here is the map of the Northern ice cap for yesterday, which isn't in that good shape and we have realistic odds to brake some records this year.








Plus there is another problem here that people don't understand. People think of climate system through geological past of the planet and all kinds of facts and data get thrown into the mix through the media regarding that. However that is completely wrong perspective. The problem is that we are burning FOSSIL fuels. What means that we are relentlessly digging out all carbon we can find in layers and we are removing whole hills to get to it. We are even drilling miles deep wells on the ocean floor in order to get to "the stuff". We are truly that relentless in this.

However there is the catch, we are suddenly digging and burning all the carbon that was in the ground for hundreds of millions of years. What is clearly unprecedented since there was never a force on the planet that was so good at this. However since we are dumping all of this "new" carbon into the system basically at once in the terms of geological time we are fundamentally remaking the climate system, without having second thought about this "experiment". Since this isn't evolution of the system but systematic shock. What is because the system was always slowly working with what it got. However we are pumping out the new stuff from the ground and releasing it into the air 24/7. What is evidently fundamental game changer that simply can't pass as "business as usual". This is why there is the element of apocalypse in the whole story. Since this is systematic shock and that means that linear thinking focused on continuity and history will not present the realistic picture of the problem.
 

Tellenbach

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I've seen leftists blame refugee migrations on climate change rather than on military conflicts. I've heard the "existential threat" nonsense for many years. Now, these alarmists say we only have 12 years left, lol.

If things are so dire, why would these people oppose nuclear power, which is the only real solution right now? And when you ask this question, you know it's all just bullshit, just another excuse to tax and spend and power-grab.
 

Tomb1

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I've seen leftists blame refugee migrations on climate change rather than on military conflicts. I've heard the "existential threat" nonsense for many years. Now, these alarmists say we only have 12 years left, lol.

If things are so dire, why would these people oppose nuclear power, which is the only real solution right now? And when you ask this question, you know it's all just bullshit, just another excuse to tax and spend and power-grab.

You have to remember that the Constitution's "Taxing and Spending Clause" gives Congress an unqualified power to lay and collect taxes...note, not 'lay and collect taxes to pay debts and provide for the common defense" but "lay and collect taxes" separate and apart from the power to pay debts and provide for the common defense. Let me also remind you that the "takings clause" gives the government the power to "power-grab" private property for its own public use. This is not the fault of leftists. Blame the Constitution.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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You have to remember that the Constitution's "Taxing and Spending Clause" gives Congress an unqualified power to lay and collect taxes...note, not 'lay and collect taxes to pay debts and provide for the common defense" but "lay and collect taxes" separate and apart from the power to pay debts and provide for the common defense. Let me also remind you that the "takings clause" gives the government the power to "power-grab" private property for its own public use. This is not the fault of leftists. Blame the Constitution.

damn DEMOCRAT party
 

Lark

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I wonder why its always left or pseudo-left campaigns that are alarmist? Are they susceptible to alarm? Why is there never a "racist" alarmism or capitalist alarmism?
 

Virtual ghost

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I wonder why its always left or pseudo-left campaigns that are alarmist? Are they susceptible to alarm? Why is there never a "racist" alarmism or capitalist alarmism?



This is pretty simple to explain for the English speaking countries or their definitions and political mindset.



Racists and similar groups tend to think that it is impossible to fundamentally change our climate system.
While capitalists are either in the denial since this is direct threat to their worldviews, or they are presenting themselves as the people that have a solution. Even if in many cases they don't or they don't go far enough.


While left wing people are generally more into social fairness or they tend to have more intellectual focus that is vital for penetrating this very complex issue. Which requires knowledge from hard science to sociology, politics and economy. Since the problem is global and on large timescale. Therefore this isn't really interesting subject to the people who are into quick personal gains.
 

Taito

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Or because Leftists fall for Capitalist propaganda pushed by the state, to make the rich even richer.
 

Lark

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This is pretty simple to explain for the English speaking countries or their definitions and political mindset.



Racists and similar groups tend to think that it is impossible to fundamentally change our climate system.
While capitalists are either in the denial since this is direct threat to their worldviews, or they are presenting themselves as the people that have a solution. Even if in many cases they don't or they don't go far enough.


While left wing people are generally more into social fairness or they tend to have more intellectual focus that is vital for penetrating this very complex issue. Which requires knowledge from hard science to sociology, politics and economy. Since the problem is global and on large timescale. Therefore this isn't really interesting subject to the people who are into quick personal gains.

I didnt mean on climate so much as I did on their own topics, racists think there is a race based crisis all the time, effecting them and those like them, capitalists think that their money is threatened, all the time, people never question those alarmist positions but they question bizarre weather being anything to do with the climate collapsing. It is considered, wrongly, to be alarmism.

- - - Updated - - -

Or because Leftists fall for Capitalist propaganda pushed by the state, to make the rich even richer.

Unfortunately your post makes no sense to anyone who is not already convinced of your own propaganda. In fact, it reads pretty dumb.
 

ceecee

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I didnt mean on climate so much as I did on their own topics, racists think there is a race based crisis all the time, effecting them and those like them, capitalists think that their money is threatened, all the time, people never question those alarmist positions but they question bizarre weather being anything to do with the climate collapsing. It is considered, wrongly, to be alarmism.

- - - Updated - - -



Unfortunately your post makes no sense to anyone who is not already convinced of your own propaganda. In fact, it reads pretty dumb.

If you mean alarmist to their topics of course - Reactionary conservatism is inherently alarmist. Racists, capitalists, their right wing cheerleaders, ultra nationalists, all the same.

Great Replacement - Wikipedia

Kalergi Plan - Wikipedia

QAnon - Wikipedia

A New Right-Wing Conspiracy Theory Claims COVID Contact Tracers Are Stealing Children – Mother Jones

It's all tailored to fit people already riddled with anger, anxiety and fear, which makes conservatism attractive. The influences around them do the rest. Weirdly, people who have become further left generally have either educated themselves on socialism, and it's variations or investigated things like Marxist economics or criticisms of austerity and other shitty neoliberal policy dumpster fires. I've never met a leftists that just stumbled on a bunch of conspiracy theories and became a leftist.

Or because Leftists fall for Capitalist propaganda pushed by the state, to make the rich even richer.

This is a sociopathic comment and a perfect example of MAGA alarmism although it's hilarious because the right is the only group looking to maintain capitalism. However I see that "deep state" has been replaced with leftist and antifa boogieman key words. lol
 

Taito

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Real capitalism hasn't been tried before.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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If you mean alarmist to their topics of course - Reactionary conservatism is inherently alarmist. Racists, capitalists, their right wing cheerleaders, ultra nationalists, all the same.

Great Replacement - Wikipedia

Kalergi Plan - Wikipedia

QAnon - Wikipedia

A New Right-Wing Conspiracy Theory Claims COVID Contact Tracers Are Stealing Children – Mother Jones

It's all tailored to fit people already riddled with anger, anxiety and fear, which makes conservatism attractive. The influences around them do the rest. Weirdly, people who have become further left generally have either educated themselves on socialism, and it's variations or investigated things like Marxist economics or criticisms of austerity and other shitty neoliberal policy dumpster fires. I've never met a leftists that just stumbled on a bunch of conspiracy theories and became a leftist.



This is a sociopathic comment and a perfect example of MAGA alarmism although it's hilarious because the right is the only group looking to maintain capitalism. However I see that "deep state" has been replaced with leftist and antifa boogieman key words. lol

I don't even think these people are really conservatives. I think conservative has become a code word/dog whistle for people who support fascist statism. All of the old political labels have become so meaningless in American politics, mostly being used to describe completely different philosophies than they originally referred to. In some instances used to describe the exact opposites of what the words actually mean or used to mean. We're in bizarro world in the USA, where words just describe whatever we want.
 

Taito

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People should list their political positions in their signature, so we can stop assuming shit.
 
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