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Climate Change Alarmism

Tellenbach

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On Behalf Of Environmentalists, I Apologize For The Climate Scare

A climate change activist/environmentalist comes clean and admits that he misled the public for decades.

But as an energy expert asked by Congress to provide objective expert testimony, and invited by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to serve as Expert Reviewer of its next Assessment Report, I feel an obligation to apologize for how badly we environmentalists have misled the public.

Here are some facts few people know:

Humans are not causing a “sixth mass extinction”

The Amazon is not “the lungs of the world”

Climate change is not making natural disasters worse

Fires have declined 25% around the world since 2003

The amount of land we use for meat — humankind’s biggest use of land — has declined by an area nearly as large as Alaska

The build-up of wood fuel and more houses near forests, not climate change, explain why there are more, and more dangerous, fires in Australia and California

Carbon emissions are declining in most rich nations and have been declining in Britain, Germany, and France since the mid-1970s

Netherlands became rich not poor while adapting to life below sea level

We produce 25% more food than we need and food surpluses will continue to rise as the world gets hotter

Habitat loss and the direct killing of wild animals are bigger threats to species than climate change

Why didn't this jerk speak up earlier?

But mostly I was scared. I remained quiet about the climate disinformation campaign because I was afraid of losing friends and funding. The few times I summoned the courage to defend climate science from those who misrepresent it I suffered harsh consequences. And so I mostly stood by and did next to nothing as my fellow environmentalists terrified the public.

Boo hooo. It's a little late buddy. People like you have ruined millions of lives by supporting stupid climate change policies. I hope you and your ilk get run over by an angry donkey.

See, I was right all along. :mad:
 

ceecee

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Tellenbach

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Either the facts presented are real or not. Attacking the messenger is just sloppy thinking. Every time, there is a major brush fire here in California, the Dem politicians scream "climate change". Every time, there is a major hurricane, lefty pundits scream "climate change" on cable news shows. There is ZERO science to back up their claims and they all know it. They're just like this Shellenberger person, lying to achieve an end.
 

ceecee

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Just in case anyone doesn't already know this, The Heartland Institute is the world leader in the denial business in the US and has been for nearly 40 years. First it was the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke then full bore on climate change denial and would be classified as eco-fascists. Funded by fossil fuel groups and the usual suspects of conservative industrialists and wealthy families. Competitive Enterprise Institute and The George C. Marshall Institute are in the same business.

Heartland Institute - Wikipedia

For the people that spout a lot of climate change denial rhetoric, it's almost always loaded with loony right wing libertarian key words and phrases and even have five stages of denial. Of course the fifth stage is that it's too late to do anything so even if it's real it doesn't matter. Which was always the point of the billions and billions that have been dumped into trying to convince people there is no ecological disruption squeezing the globe.

Why would they need to work so hard and spend so much money if climate change actually was false? There would be visible evidence and all science pointing to climate change would be easily debunked.
 

Tomb1

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Carbon emissions are declining in most rich nations and have been declining in Britain, Germany, and France since the mid-1970s

Thank Emissions Standards for that.

the fact he failed to note that more stringent emissions standards arose in these rich nations beginning in the mid-70s is very misleading.

He certainly has an economic motive...he has his Audio CDs at sixty bucks a pop.

If the "facts" speak for itself he wouldn't need to hype himself as a former "lifelong environmental activist"...however true it is.

Robot Check
 

тень

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A lot of fires are caused by Liberal policies, preventing the safe removal of brush from high risk areas such as powerlines. All for "green" areas. Same thing happened in Australia. You have to thin the trees, and remove underbrush because the climate is arid, and dry. It burns super easy.

A lot of climate change science is supported by capitalists who want to monopolize green energy, nuclear energy etc. Everyone wants to be the new Elon Musk. Follow the money to find out who is behind it. Governments are not exempt from being bamboozled by global capitalists. It is nof as bad, or as important as they make it out to be.

The climate is far too complex to be fixed with the reduced emissions of a single gas as well. On top of it not mattering anyways due to India, Africa, and China being disgusting polluters of the enviroment and the main source of Co2 as well as trash in the ocean. All that CO2 reduction in the west, yet "climate change" is getting worse by the year? Doesn't make sense to blame the west.

The best thing we can do for the world is force India, Africa, and China to clean up the enviroment.
 

anticlimatic

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Of course you aren't disclosing that Environmental Progress is a pro-nuclear group founded by Michael Shellenberger. Michael Shellenberger - Wikipedia Pro-nuclear group targets Chicago environmental organization | Energy News Network So weird that virtually no one other than right wing quacks and pseudo-scientists agree with him. You should go work for the Trump administration. Your shit sources would be welcomed there.
Complaining about political bias while being the most politically biased person in the room is hilarious irony of the highest order.

That link you posted? Completely funded by left wing quacks. The rules of your own game are self defeating. Just thought you should know.
 

ceecee

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Complaining about political bias while being the most politically biased person in the room is hilarious irony of the highest order.

That link you posted? Completely funded by left wing quacks. The rules of your own game are self defeating. Just thought you should know.

You are seriously obsessed with my posts, I think you should get some help for that. Maybe put me on ignore or something until you can get in to see a therapist.
 

Vendrah

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I did once called the environmentalists as "eco-borings", because I thought their alarmism did make all of our lives extremely boring with their measures.

However, even if I am too lazy to just point any of them, there are dozens of sources stating that the planet is getting hotter than it was before, and that climate is changing is something that should be obvious on this point. What isnt obvious and extremely complicated to determinate is whatever and how much humanity plays a role into global warming.

There are just three scenarios: Either humanity has nothing to do with it - planet would be getting hotter without us and with the dinosaurs OR humanity is very responsible for it OR a mix of both.

Even if humanity has nothing to do with it, it will impact our lives: Oceans rising and things getting hotter are going to indeed change human life as we know.
The most logical solution taking the next generation in account is to consider the hypothesis where there is an impact caused by humans and doing the measures to counter it, because at least the bad impact of global warm wont be on humanity shoulder. At best, measures are going to stable the climate; At worst, they wont work but at least there was a shot.

However, putting some traditional selfishism in the middle, the most logical solution is screw next generation ('boomers' here and perhaps in the US seems to be a subscriber to that in lots of times) and lets take the best of our life in the expense of others future, which is something, well, quite typical.

Anyway, I wouldnt be that surprised if someone actually say "no, there is actually evidence and very strong reasoning that humanity is causing it" and I would even be on a conspiracionist side for even considering the hypothesis that humanity has nothing to do with it - but that would not change my conclusion (that the most reasonable and even "ethicable" path is to care about it and do some measures).

PS: The timeline for earth is very slow when compared to our lives. Or our lives are extremely tiny when compared to earth timeline. That means that these changes are quite slow. I dont think its much about our children future, but further generations.
 

Doctor Anaximander

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A lot of fires are caused by Liberal policies, preventing the safe removal of brush from high risk areas such as powerlines. All for "green" areas. Same thing happened in Australia. You have to thin the trees, and remove underbrush because the climate is arid, and dry. It burns super easy.

A lot of climate change science is supported by capitalists who want to monopolize green energy, nuclear energy etc. Everyone wants to be the new Elon Musk. Follow the money to find out who is behind it. Governments are not exempt from being bamboozled by global capitalists. It is nof as bad, or as important as they make it out to be.

The climate is far too complex to be fixed with the reduced emissions of a single gas as well. On top of it not mattering anyways due to India, Africa, and China being disgusting polluters of the enviroment and the main source of Co2 as well as trash in the ocean. All that CO2 reduction in the west, yet "climate change" is getting worse by the year? Doesn't make sense to blame the west.

The best thing we can do for the world is force India, Africa, and China to clean up the enviroment.

well liberals are shithead statists beholden to big business. just like trump, the ultimate liberal
 

Doctor Anaximander

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You don't even have to have a deep understanding of the science to understand the concept. Each and every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and that applies to this big ball of interconnected chemicals and ecosystems we live on. Actions we take don't occur in a vacuum, so it's silly to assume large actions like clear cutting of rainforests won't have any noticeable effects on the planet. We've seen multiple instances of overfarming leading to expansion of deserts--some historians have theorized this was partially responsible for the expansion of deserts in the fertile crescent. Destroy wetlands which tend to act as buffers between tropical ocean storms and mainlands, and why would you expect anything other than mass flooding and storms overstaying their welcomes and hovering over coastal regions dumping more water than we'd see when there were more wetlands?

If you can't understand this, you're either obtuse or you've buried your head in the sand as a result of not seeing the effects yet directly hit you.

I'm past the point of trying to speak diplomatically with the deniers. The chickens are now coming home to roost and you fuckers still cling to your corporate backed denialist propaganda. Wake the fuck up.

 

тень

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well liberals are shithead statists beholden to big business. just like trump, the ultimate liberal

At least you recognize him as a Liberal, which makes him a moderate in every regard.

Now if people learn to accept the plutocracy will always prevent real change, even if your messiah gets elected. We can have a real revolution. Trump to me has always represented my faith in democracy. Watching people try to tear him down illegally, regardless if you support his policies or not, is a tell tale sign that our Republic is failing.

Who's ready for the Balkinization of the USA?
 

Doctor Anaximander

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At least you recognize him as a Liberal, which makes him a moderate in every regard.

Now if people learn to accept the plutocracy will always prevent real change, even if your messiah gets elected. We can have a real revolution. Trump to me has always represented my faith in democracy. Watching people try to tear him down illegally, regardless if you support his policies or not, is a tell tale sign that our Republic is failing.

Who's ready for the Balkinization of the USA?

He's a liberal authoritarian. Borderline fascist, and no it's not hyperbolic to use the F word to describe Trump. For instance, he's decided he wants to label Antifa a terrorist group (despite it not being an organized movement with any clear hierarchy or membership dues like say, the KKK). At a glance that might seem like a good call, but consider the implications, even beyond Trump's term(s) in office. It sets a horrible precedent where the government could in theory label any dissident or vocal dissenter as a terrorist, thereby making it far more difficult for that person to be granted due process--indefinite imprisonment, torture, et al, with no burden of proof placed upon the state, like we did with prisoners labeled terrorists at Guantanamo. Fascists like Mussolini and Hitler would be downright envious. Now suppose a democrat comes to power and suddenly people holding your views are in their crosshairs to be labelled terrorists..

Liberals really aren't any better than fascists, in that they and moderates often unwittingly enable fascists to come to power.

Really the enemy is statism and corporatism, and Trump hasn't shown any indication of wanting to make any real stand against either. So even if he's just a moderate like you argue, he's still a part of the problem.

For all the talk from the right about fears of the left wing thought police coming to get them, honestly I'd take an angry twitter mob of PC police over what Trump is pulling any day.
 

тень

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He's a liberal authoritarian. Borderline fascist, and no it's not hyperbolic to use the F word to describe Trump. For instance, he's decided he wants to label Antifa a terrorist group (despite it not being an organized movement with any clear hierarchy or membership dues like say, the KKK). At a glance that might seem like a good call, but consider the implications, even beyond Trump's term(s) in office. It sets a horrible precedent where the government could in theory label any dissident or vocal dissenter as a terrorist, thereby making it far more difficult for that person to be granted due process--indefinite imprisonment, torture, et al, with no burden of proof placed upon the state, like we did with prisoners labeled terrorists at Guantanamo. Fascists like Mussolini and Hitler would be downright envious. Now suppose a democrat comes to power and suddenly people holding your views are in their crosshairs to be labelled terrorists..

Liberals really aren't any better than fascists, in that they and moderates often unwittingly enable fascists to come to power.

Really the enemy is statism and corporatism, and Trump hasn't shown any indication of wanting to make any real stand against either. So even if he's just a moderate like you argue, he's still a part of the problem.

Antifa does have organization and a hierarchy though, I have seen it. They operate similarly to 4chan/anonymous, where anyone can claim the label. Remember a few years ago when that hacker group got arrested? That was the core of "Anonymous", who also mobalized sleeper units, aka normal people to help out using things like 4chan to organize and communicate. Do you really think it would be smart to do illegal shit, and have all the evidence in a nice neat discord channel/forum so the cops can find you easily? The media is too dumb to find it, and wouldn't report on it anyways. Because they are useful idiots to the Democratic party. You are greatly underestimating their capability.
 

Virtual ghost

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PS: The timeline for earth is very slow when compared to our lives. Or our lives are extremely tiny when compared to earth timeline. That means that these changes are quite slow. I dont think its much about our children future, but further generations.


I am sorry but this isn't really realistic logic. The environmental movement as we know it today showed up in the 60s and since then the story is "our grandchildren will suffer". The only problem is that the time is going and the talking point remained. Therefore since you seem to be of similar age as me I dare to say that you and me are those grandchildren from the stories, since 60s were long time ago at this point.


What is the can of worms that most don't dare to open.



 

anticlimatic

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The bottom line is that until climate change gets depoliticized somehow, any "conversation" about it is completely pointless. Trust on the issue has been sqandered. To the religious wokesters, climate change is their book of revelation. To some energy tycoons it's a tactic to gain leverage over other energy tycoons. To people that have lives and more important things to do with their time in the present than worry about things they can't control in the future, it's all just white noise.

Science itself has been politicized thanks to universities needing grants. Look at how many of the reputable scientific organizations are bowing down to the BLM rage mob. Until we can establish some metric of shared and objective trust, everything is wasted breath. COVID opened my eyes to that.
 

Doctor Anaximander

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Antifa does have organization and a hierarchy though, I have seen it. They operate similarly to 4chan/anonymous, where anyone can claim the label. Remember a few years ago when that hacker group got arrested? That was the core of "Anonymous", who also mobalized sleeper units, aka normal people to help out using things like 4chan to organize and communicate. Do you really think it would be smart to do illegal shit, and have all the evidence in a nice neat discord channel/forum so the cops can find you easily? The media is too dumb to find it, and wouldn't report on it anyways. Because they are useful idiots to the Democratic party. You are greatly underestimating their capability.

I'm at a point where I'm more sympathetic to them with every passing day. I used to think anarchism was a pipe dream, now I think it's the only way to save the human race from itself.

Regardless of where you stand on Antifa, you're not even really addressing my points about the dangers of being able to bypass due process by labelling any dissenter a terrorist. Nothing Trump says or tries to do suggests any real respect for democracy or constitutional law. Respect and trust are two way streets, and he's done little to earn mine. I've also been a lot more patient than most of his critics, going as far as criticizing Trump Derangement Syndrome in the early days of his term and begging people to be patient and watch before jumping on the bandwagon and calling him a fascist. He's had plenty of time to prove he's not one. Where is the evidence?
 

Lark

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Do think anyone being alert to this issue now is being alarmist, its long past that point.
 

Vendrah

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I am sorry but this isn't really realistic logic. The environmental movement as we know it today showed up in the 60s and since then the story is "our grandchildren will suffer". The only problem is that the time is going and the talking point remained. Therefore since you seem to be of similar age as me I dare to say that you and me are those grandchildren from the stories, since 60s were long time ago at this point.


What is the can of worms that most don't dare to open.




I dont recall saying grandchildren, if I did was a mistake! But I meant latter generations, without pontificating which. I dont have much idea of the speed rate of this, but it is indeed slow for our life span standards. It looks like that some people on the thread (not you) were waiting for some sort of climate change apocalypse for now and saying "nay, nothing happened, so it was all a lie and all pure alarmism" and I mean that this is a slow process. We are not expected to suddenly in a few years to have massive floods, super desertification, hypersummers and hot places becomes impossible to live due to them getting superhot. These things happens slowly! These things only come up that fast in movies!

But reversing it might be a slow process either, so the alarm is that we rather deal with it now because when the side effects gets disastrous, they will also take at least some decades to fade away even supposing that people "stop everything suddenly", meaning that an entire generation, in one way or another, would be doomed, if not the whole future of humanity.
 

тень

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I'm at a point where I'm more sympathetic to them with every passing day. I used to think anarchism was a pipe dream, now I think it's the only way to save the human race from itself.

Regardless of where you stand on Antifa, you're not even really addressing my points about the dangers of being able to bypass due process by labelling any dissenter a terrorist. Nothing Trump says or tries to do suggests any real respect for democracy or constitutional law. Respect and trust are two way streets, and he's done little to earn mine. I've also been a lot more patient than most of his critics, going as far as criticizing Trump Derangement Syndrome in the early days of his term and begging people to be patient and watch before jumping on the bandwagon and calling him a fascist. He's had plenty of time to prove he's not one. Where is the evidence?

A terrorist is anyone or group who's sole purpose is to use violence to push a political agenda. Thats exactly what Antifa is and doing. Your idea of terrorism probably defaults to groups like ISIS, but that isn't all terrorism. Then there is the distinction between a member of a group doing something bad, and an organization designed to do bad. Hence the reason the KKK and people like WBC are not labeled terrorists. Yet people like the Unabomber was. This being that the KKK doesn't enact violence for a political agenda, but usually take legal routes to follow their agenda (buying legal permits to protest etc). Even if you find their ideas harmful, its still protected by the first amendment. Antifa surrenders this right by attacking people, rioting, and burning down cities. While not all of them do (the useful idiots), the people controlling the operations want them to.
 
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