[Type 7] Can a 7w8 whom has strong self pres be fairly cautious and not take as many risks?

[Riva]

I agree with the title.

Maybe not so much cautious as calculating...having a good sense at when to jump and when to stay put?

Mmm...what was said above!

And this. Especially this.

 

[The Great One]

Yea. Well I tend to analyze everything but its done on the fly. Think Iron Man.

I wonder if this is just how Se + ti 7w8's would do this? I wonder if an ENFP 7w8 for example wouldn't be as quick to analyze?

 

[badger055]

I wonder if this is just how Se + ti 7w8's would do this? I wonder if an ENFP 7w8 for example wouldn't be as quick to analyze?

Yea ENFPs probably not as much. Ti is the most analytical but 7s in general are supposed to be able to pick up stuff quick. I tend to wing a lot of things.

 

[FDG]

I don't know what exactly other people see as "risky", there's large variations in people's opinion. I know some german INTP 5s that consider everything I do as extremely risky (and I really don't do anything weird, worst I do is some very safe mountain climbing and mountain biking in the snow), then I know some south american ESTPs 7w8s and I think everything they do is extremely risky.

 

[The Great One]

Well what both of you say makes sense. I would also assume that [MENTION=16476]badger055[/MENTION] is a 7w8(sw8w9) and they tend to be the types to act first, and ask questions later. It seems like they are so action oriented, they almost seem like core gut types. I would also assume that [MENTION=857]FDG[/MENTION] is 7w8(sw6w7) and they tend to be very action oriented as well, but tend to think a little bit more than the 7w8(sw8w9).

 

[badger055]

Well what both of you say makes sense. I would also assume that [MENTION=16476]badger055[/MENTION] is a 7w8(sw8w9) and they tend to be the types to act first, and ask questions later. It seems like they are so action oriented, they almost seem like core gut types. I would also assume that [MENTION=857]FDG[/MENTION] is 7w8(sw6w7) and they tend to be very action oriented as well, but tend to think a little bit more than the 7w8(sw8w9).

I don't really buy the sub wings thing. Tritype, mbti and instincts can explain any differences. I saw this interesting thing on the types http://similarminds.com/desc.html. They put 7w8 between a head type and an instinct type. The main difference between 7w8 and 8w7 is that 7w8 is fun first then control/intimidation. 8w7 is control/intimidation first then fun.

 

[The Great One]

I don't really buy the sub wings thing. Tritype, mbti and instincts can explain any differences. I saw this interesting thing on the types http://similarminds.com/desc.html. They put 7w8 between a head type and an instinct type. The main difference between 7w8 and 8w7 is that 7w8 is fun first then control/intimidation. 8w7 is control/intimidation first then fun.

No they can't. For instance, there is a big difference between the 6w7(7w8) and the 6w7(sw5w6). The 6w7(sw7w8) can very easily look like a 7 because they have a strong 7 wing. They also are often much more adventurous and playful than the other variety of 7. The 6w7(sw5w6) is much more openly nervous than the 6w7(sw7w8). They tend to be much less adventurous as well. The 6w7(sw5w6) is basically the nervous kid that you see on comedy shows that gets pushed around is kind of a punk ass.

That's just one example of how subwings can help to more clearly define type. I think that subwings are a vital part of enneagram theory, and I would not neglect them if I were you.

 

[Redbone]

I wonder if this is just how Se + ti 7w8's would do this? I wonder if an ENFP 7w8 for example wouldn't be as quick to analyze?

There's been stuff that I should have sat on but impulsively leaped at (it is a bit thrilling to get out of mess but at my age, it's getting old and less desirable).

In an earlier post, I said calculating. I want to win/succeed. I want to get what I want in the end and I don't mind playing the long-game to get it (this, too, has improved with age and my personal circumstances). My feelings can definitely trigger impulsive actions and get in the way if I let it. It just depends on what is at stake.

 

[The Great One]

There's been stuff that I should have sat on but impulsively leaped at (it is a bit thrilling to get out of mess but at my age, it's getting old and less desirable).

In an earlier post, I said calculating. I want to win/succeed. I want to get what I want in the end and I don't mind playing the long-game to get it (this, too, has improved with age and my personal circumstances). My feelings can definitely trigger impulsive actions and get in the way if I let it. It just depends on what is at stake.

So you guys are really no better than the Se doms in that regard?

 

[Redbone]

So you guys are really no better than the Se doms in that regard?

I don't know...ask [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] ? I think he's sx-dom though... They just seem...different. More present and grounded. Maybe even more social (I'm not very social at all)? I think they are much quicker to act and can have better instincts about certain things that I don't have a good grasp for. I can't think of any specific examples though.

 

[The Great One]

I don't know...ask [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] ? I think he's sx-dom though... They just seem...different. More present and grounded. Maybe even more social (I'm not very social at all)? I think they are much quicker to act and can have better instincts about certain things that I don't have a good grasp for. I can't think of any specific examples though.

I see.

 

[Halla74]

I often times have difficulty telling the difference between a 7w8 whom has strong self pres, and a 7w6(sw8w7). So are all 7w8's huge risk takers despite variants? Say for instance if you have a 7w8 sx/sp with strong self pres, could this make that 7w8 much more cautious and not as much of a risk taker? I mean clearly that person most likely would not have that much anxiety, but it seems like that person may mistype as a 7w6 because they are actually a cautious 7w8 (which seems to be very hard to find). So can 7w8's be cautious?

7w8s are cautious when they deem necessary.
Think "situational management" - you manage what needs to be managed, when it needs managing, and how it needs to be managed.
There is no need to be "cautious all the time" - but in the same breath, to not be cautious when it is sensible to do so is stupid, and that is hardly a good path to take.

Does the thought of something going wrong even cross your mind, or do you just automatically assume things will go right

Things will ALWAYS go right, it's just a matter of which flavor of right they will go, and when it will happen.
The destination is decided, the path to get there is variable and traversed however it needs to happen, as the journey unfolds.

How on earth can you be comfortable in chaos?

Because change is the only constant, and to embrace it is be at peace with what most consider to be disarray, and to do so results in arriving at a natural state of advantage.
Cool heads prevail.

Well, I have an ESTP 7w8 friend who's Sx first and I have 7w8 in my tritype but I'm Sp first. The biggest difference between us is that while he'll go out and do it, I'll be sitting back and watching so I can be more calculated and do it better.

Kind of, but not really.
Opportunity knocks ONCE.
If you watch someone else reign in opportunity of any kind, at any time, and learn from it, then they have experienced conquest, and you have learned vicariously from it.
They did it, when you did not, and therefore they did THAT better.
If you find yourself in a position of similar opportunity at a later time, then maybe you have an advantage in capitalizing as good or better with the same or less effort, but you could not have done so without standing on the shoulders of giants...
Fortune favors the bold.
Victory cannot be achieved from the sidelines.

How can I differentiate a 7w6 from a 7w8 with strong self pres?

You can't. To wish as such is expecting over-generalization to become a norm, and that's not reality.

No idea, just sharing my thought process. You may need a sample size greater than 1.

+1,000, and LMAO!

But that might make things confusing if they aren't like you.

Oh my.

I don't really buy the sub wings thing. Tritype, mbti and instincts can explain any differences. I saw this interesting thing on the types http://similarminds.com/desc.html. They put 7w8 between a head type and an instinct type. The main difference between 7w8 and 8w7 is that 7w8 is fun first then control/intimidation. 8w7 is control/intimidation first then fun.

Control is an illusion, and intimidation is a full scale implementation of feelings of inferiority.
Head games are for children.

So you guys are really no better than the Se doms in that regard?

No better than Se doms?
Which Se doms?
All Se doms?
Don't plunge down the rabbit hole so easily...

I don't know...ask [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] ? I think he's sx-dom though...

Hi there!
Yes, I am 7w8 sx/so...

They just seem...different. More present and grounded.

Yes, I am present, and I am grounded.
I live in the eternal here and now.
To do so requires being present and grounded, if that makes any sense whatsoever...

Maybe even more social (I'm not very social at all)?

Yep, I'm social. Very much so.
I understand people, and many of the social constructs they operate within.
Being able to reach common ground with people at that basic level of understanding allows you to interact with them, and negotiate with them, from the perspective of a peer and not an adversary.
This allows for much progress to be made in many circumstances without initiation of conflict.

I think they are much quicker to act and can have better instincts about certain things that I don't have a good grasp for. I can't think of any specific examples though.

Your comment above is accurate.
We are quick to act and have instincts that penetrate a vast array of phenomena at any given time.
Our reality is one of constantly observing, experimenting and interacting with our environment - whether the scenery of it, or the people within it.
We are in many ways a living catalyst.
The reactions we cause are simply a manifestation of our will being projected into our environment over time.

At least that's how it works for me.



-Halla74

 

[mcgooglian]

7w8s are cautious when they deem necessary.
Kind of, but not really.
Opportunity knocks ONCE.
If you watch someone else reign in opportunity of any kind, at any time, and learn from it, then they have experienced conquest, and you have learned vicariously from it.
They did it, when you did not, and therefore they did THAT better.
If you find yourself in a position of similar opportunity at a later time, then maybe you have an advantage in capitalizing as good or better with the same or less effort, but you could not have done so without standing on the shoulders of giants...
Fortune favors the bold.
Victory cannot be achieved from the sidelines.

Ah, but a lot of this seems to be based on the assumption that they actually succeeded. There's just as much to learn from their failures.
I'd also say that being Sp first makes me more aware of my abilities so I know exactly what I can get away with while still pushing my limits.

 

[Halla74]

Ah, but a lot of this seems to be based on the assumption that they actually succeeded...

Hello there.

Your initial response, that I replied to, infers that your friend succeeded, because you stated that "he'll go out and do it."

Please see below:

Well, I have an ESTP 7w8 friend who's Sx first and I have 7w8 in my tritype but I'm Sp first. The biggest difference between us is that while he'll go out and do it, I'll be sitting back and watching so I can be more calculated and do it better.

If he "tried to do it, but failed" then he didn't "do it" - he "tried to do it, but failed." - That's not what you said though.
Sure, watching people try and fail is indeed of some benefit, but it pales in comparison to direct experience.
Your initial comment suggests that your friend TRIED and SUCCEEDED - at least that's how it read to me.

There's just as much to learn from their failures.

It depends on what you are trying to master.
If you're trying to master failing at something, then watching people screw up similar attempts at accomplishing a similar endeavor is a great place to start.
Practice doesn't make perfect; Perfect practice makes perfect.
Watching others fail is not the path to enlightenment.
Knowing 100 people who have failed at romance doesn't mean that you understand what you need to do to be a successful romantic partner with the person of your dreams.
And so on, and so forth...

I'd also say that being Sp first makes me more aware of my abilities so I know exactly what I can get away with while still pushing my limits.

You NEVER know EXACTLY what you can get away with - EVER.
Often times projecting the illusion as such with confidence is enough to land damn near where you want to be.
But to capitalize on any such endeavor requires getting into the driver's seat and leaving the safety of watching the race from the sidelines.

Most people I know who are sp/sx (regardless of their e-type) are warm and open to new experiences, so long as those experiences are not outside their comfort limits.
They are not typically risk-prone, or pre-disposed to thrillseeking, but they are hardly couch potatoes or wallflowers.

At some point in my life I realized that the time and energy I was spending trying to figure out how things worked, was largely wasted when compared to what I learned when I set out to accomplish what I wanted to happen.

Actions speak louder than words.
Observing the actions of others is educational, but is no substitute for direct life experience.

Again, all I discuss above is what has worked for ME during MY LIFE.
I stick with what works for me, as I'm sure most people do.
In my case watching others has been of marginal benefit as compared to what I learned setting out to make something happen on my own.



-Halla74

 

[FDG]

7w8s are cautious when they deem necessary.

Kind of, but the way I perceive it is that we're really not cautious compared to most other people. So, since we're not, everytime we are "forced" to be we start feeling this voice saying "waaah waahh you're being so cautious! Why!", while for many others it'd be natural behavior.

 

[Halla74]

Kind of, but the way I perceive it is that we're really not cautious compared to most other people.

Absolutely.

So, since we're not, everytime we are "forced" to be we start feeling this voice saying "waaah waahh you're being so cautious! Why!", while for many others it'd be natural behavior.

Also very true. Well stated.
We're capable of being cautious, but it is not at all innate behavior, and we sure as hell don't like it.



-Halla74

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION]

7w8s are cautious when they deem necessary.
Think "situational management" - you manage what needs to be managed, when it needs managing, and how it needs to be managed.
There is no need to be "cautious all the time" - but in the same breath, to not be cautious when it is sensible to do so is stupid, and that is hardly a good path to take.

Yes, this sounds like the answers that I have heard from the other 7w8's. However, it seems like for a Sx/so 7w8 such as yourself, you wouldn't worry as much about avoiding physical pain? Am I right?

Things will ALWAYS go right, it's just a matter of which flavor of right they will go, and when it will happen.
The destination is decided, the path to get there is variable and traversed however it needs to happen, as the journey unfolds.

But what about when things DON'T go right? I mean, they can't ALWAYS go right. What do you do then?

Kind of, but not really.
Opportunity knocks ONCE.
If you watch someone else reign in opportunity of any kind, at any time, and learn from it, then they have experienced conquest, and you have learned vicariously from it.
They did it, when you did not, and therefore they did THAT better.
If you find yourself in a position of similar opportunity at a later time, then maybe you have an advantage in capitalizing as good or better with the same or less effort, but you could not have done so without standing on the shoulders of giants...
Fortune favors the bold.
Victory cannot be achieved from the sidelines.

Well this is interesting. I've always known that Se doms must learn from experience. Being an intuition dom, I can literally see things as they would happen in real life, but in my head. It is because of this, that I really don't have to experience that many things to really see how they would go. I didn't know that Se doms could learn from other's experience though. I thought that they really had to learn from experiencing things strictly for themselves? I guess not?

 

[Redbone]

But what about when things DON'T go right? I mean, they can't ALWAYS go right. What do you do then?

Figure out why I'm off course and get back on it again. For me, things going wrong usually means that whatever I'm doing, my heart isn't really in it. Or that I was following what I believed in but in the wrong setting. For the things I really want, I have almost limitless will and energy to pursue it.

 

[Halla74]

Yes, this sounds like the answers that I have heard from the other 7w8's.

There is much consistency among us...

However, it seems like for a Sx/so 7w8 such as yourself, you wouldn't worry as much about avoiding physical pain? Am I right?

Tis' better to give pain than receive it - Muhahaa.
Honestly, avoiding physical pain is not something I've ever pondered on, but maybe not so much in ways that you might be imagining.
If you don't mind me asking, what exactly are you talking about?

But what about when things DON'T go right? I mean, they can't ALWAYS go right. What do you do then?

When life throws you a lemon, make lemonade.
When you say "things don't always go right" - I take that to mean "things don't always go as you expected them to."
Is that what you were alluding to?
If so, that is correct, there are no guarantees - period.
What is within one's locus of control is deciding how to react to such circumstances as they arise.
If you are adaptable, and you keep your cool, then it is very possible to turn what first appeared to be a less than desirable situation into one of opportunity.
Ultimately this becomes a matter of deciding if the potential benefit in doing so is worth the time & effort to make it so.
If it is, great, then modify your engagement and proceed accordingly.
If it is not, then it's simply a matter of deciding how to de-escalate that particular objective and throttle up in pursuit of others.
In general, this is as basic a summary as I can offer. I hope it makes sense.

Well this is interesting. I've always known that Se doms must learn from experience.

No, that's simply a preference, not a requirement.

Being an intuition dom, I can literally see things as they would happen in real life, but in my head.

Perhaps I'm taking you too literally, but -
Really?
All the time?
Probably not.
You might see possibilities of how things could result into being, but you have no guarantees that anything will go according to your predictions - or desires...

It is because of this, that I really don't have to experience that many things to really see how they would go.

My guess is the above is what you believe to be true, more often than it actually is true.
Human beings have a tendency to bathe in their own beliefs, wishes and biases.
That all just sounds a little too hocus-pocus to me.
Just being honest, not trying to be a douchebag.

I didn't know that Se doms could learn from other's experience though. I thought that they really had to learn from experiencing things strictly for themselves? I guess not?

Again, we're just as capable of that as anyone else - it's just not a default preference of ours to learn vicariously in lieu of direct life experience.
To whittle that down a bit in greater detail, we'll be more pre-disposed to learning vicariously if we are somehow tangentially involved, or at minimum simply aware of the gist of a situation and the actors involved.
We don't put a lot of time and effort into things that we don't relate to, or have a specific interest in - whether that interest is of recent generation or a long-term study...

Peace,

-Halla74

 

[HongDou]

All of Halla's posts remind me of the beauty of E7s.