Bullying

[kyuuei]

It's unfair, but no matter what people do to us we are still the ones responsible for cleaning up the mess.

One of my ism's that you'll catch me saying a lot to my sister is "The only actions you can change are your own." I feel very strongly in the fact that you're in control of your happiness, sadness, etc. We're blessed with the ability to control ourselves, and we can do things like simply decide that someone's crude opinion of us is not enough to effect us for the rest of our lives. You can't make someone do anything, but you can make yourself do anything.

It's sorta nice to have that thought in your head, and it's helped me a lot during frustrating situations where I would usually feel quite helpless.

 

[kyuuei]

I was ruthlessly bullied from kindergarten all the way through high school, both physically and verbally by both males and females. (...)
When I went to the teachers, the teachers often punished me for tattling or told me to toughen up.

We had a problem with my youngest sister in the 6th grade down, where she was constantly coming home crying, and such. There was bus bullies, and school bullies and she just couldn't seem to get away from it. We made the effort to change her bus route, we've gone to the school at times and switched her out of classes if the teachers couldn't handle their job, and one point in time she temporarily went to another middle school entirely. It's a heartbreaking tale you tell here, but I feel that your parents should have gotten a bit more active in it all.

You can only do so much administratively for your child, and it always hurts to see them dealing with life's harsh reality, but when it interfered with her safety or studies we intervened just enough to protect her without doing everything for her.

I hope you decide when enough is enough and heal one day. I'm sure you'd find a breath of fresh air in it all.

I don't think that this is "normal" behavior, there is something wrong in those kids. Many times it was obvious. They had broken families and such.

So, I'm not sure I have a point here, except that, bullies should not be tolerated but it must be noticed that they too are victims. /QUOTE]

I feel the very same way now! I didn't come to the logical conclusion then, but I feel silly not thinking immediately in my head "wtf is wrong with this guy/girl? Are they totally off?" about the whole situation. I suppose because I had so many people around me, that I felt it HAD to be me, not just that 1 kid because the number of kids.. I just was too naive to realize how many kids now-a-days are truly growing up without good stable parenting and a good head on their shoulders.

...so far as the reproduction license.. I think that could have solved the problem in Idiocracy (a movie with Like Wilson in it) entirely.

A kid bullied me in first grade, but after some encouragement from my mom, I stood up to her and was rarely bullied after that. There were some mean 'rich' kids in sixth grade (the joys of busing ) that bullied me pretty relentlessly, I assume because I was quiet, poor, and dressed like a dork and I had trouble figuring out how to handle that. I could handle the overt physical intimidation better than the more subtle, verbal stuff. Funny because I, like Lat, was usually the youngest kid in my class along with being very small for my age. It's just that when people try that stuff with my, I go kind of crazy and it I guess it sort of catches people off guard.

As far as my kids go, I try to suck up to the powers that be at their schools in advance so that I already have some kind of rapport. I expect my kids to try telling the adult in charge, but if that doesn't work, I talk to the school and they do usually take care of things. So far they haven't had to resort to defending themselves, but they have my permission to do so, should the need arise.

I really liked this post ^_^b! It's like a bit of hope in all of the gloom. Good for you standing up in your own way. You found your own way of handling things, and came out on top!

There was an instance where I did do a bit of self defense fighting (my ONLY fight in school) in middle school. I was actually scared for my life since we were in Tech class and there was a lot of machinery and equipment around to be hurt on. I got in trouble and was sentenced to 3 days of in-school suspension with the boy and when I got home crying about it my father told me "Well, you did nothing wrong. But you still have to remember there are consequences for your actions, even if they are the right ones. Not everything is black and white." I remember that word-for-word because it made me feel like a superhero at the time lol! But then my dad did talk to the school when I went the next morning and I only had to attend 1 day instead of 3.

Yes it's funny isn't it how the psychological manipulation makes the target believe that they're being bullied because there's something wrong with them, rather than the more obvious (to the adult observer) issue which is that there's something wrong with the BULLY. Normal, healthy people don't need to bully!!

This is ENTIRELY true. Like I said earlier, it makes me feel silly not thinking this from the very beginning. I guess when we're young we're just not ready to believe how ugly and rotten the world is and how frequently people can lie and abuse so we're ready to believe it has to be us.. because it seems to be the more positive answer of the two. Rather it to be just us that are messed up instead of all the children around us.

yeah pt you're right about that fighting back isn't enough on its own, I've also noticed that turning the tables so that you're the aggressor for a change can make a difference. Catch them off guard, so you're the one asking the questions and they're the one with their time of day disturbed for no apparent reason, feeling confused and defensive.

Just sad though, that it has to be that way

I do believe self defense is sometimes in order, and it's up to us to decide when and where that can take effect.. but I do know that fighting fire with fire only makes a bigger blaze sometimes. You have to know HOW to wield it to make it effective or it'll burn back in your face.

 

[alicia91]

I went to a PTA sponsored Bully-Proofing program a few years ago at the Middle School and they said that there are two main types of bullys.

1) the Attention Seeking Bully - picks on someone else to get attention and seem cool. Apparently the best approach with this type of bully is to ignore them. They are just looking for the response and if they get none - they move on or get attention some other way. I think this bully is best described as "The Teaser."

2) the PowerTrip Bully (they used some other name). They make themselves feel more powerful by demeaning someone else. You should always stand up to this type of bully because ignoring them only makes them feel more superior "aw look, the little wimp is walking home to mama."

Don't know if any of this is really true - just what I heard. I've never had any issues with bullying myself, but my son did in 7th grade. This was a PowerTrip Bully and eventually my son and his friend slammed him into a locker after the bully put my son in a headlock. It's a very long story, but even after the school staff found out about it they didn't punish my son because all that he had gone through with this kid (and there was a sort of restraining order on him) and it was provoked. Needless to say, the Bully left my son alone after that. I don't condone violence, but I secretly cheered when I heard about it.

 

[heart]

1) the Attention Seeking Bully - picks on someone else to get attention and seem cool. Apparently the best approach with this type of bully is to ignore them. They are just looking for the response and if they get none - they move on or get attention some other way. I think this bully is best described at the Teaser.

The flaw in this reasoning is that they may be playing to an audience and be getting attention and affirmation from their admirers who enjoy or fear the by-play and give positive feedback. The attention doesn't have to be coming from the target to be valid attention.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

You need to be vicious and totally ruthless in dealing with bullies otherwise they will not stop.

 

[Valiant]

You need to be vicious and totally ruthless in dealing with bullies otherwise they will not stop.

Finally. If they had been reasonable people, they wouldn't bully people in the first place. Talking only works in theory, or in bad educational videos from the seventies, when everyone was high as a kite. I hate to admit it, but I tried to reason with my bullies for quite some time. And I only became bullied in the first place because I tried to talk to them when they were fucking up other peoples lives. I'm done talking in such cases, they only understand severe pain and humiliation, and shall as a direct result not recieve anything else.

 

[Anja]

People who have talked about the effect it has on self esteem are so spot on. That's why work on self is so important.

My mother was abusive while I was growing up and for years if anyone mistreated me I'd immediately go into shame. It proved that I was "bad, wrong" and deserved it. It takes some powerful psychological rearrangement to call one's spirit out of that kind of a mess.

And I really do believe it takes a strong set of values not to retaliate because the temptation is very enticing. But I've always felt uncomfortable with myself if I retaliate because it's not who I want to be.

There are others who feel more comfortable if they get even. Different set of values.

I just need to stick to mine in order to live at ease with myself. And I suppose everyone else does as well.

Because I had a great deal of empathy, and knew well what it felt like to be berated, I became a champion of the underdog and often stepped in if I saw another child being mistreated at school. It never occurred to me that I could do that for myself as well - be a defender of my own self-esteem. They didn't teach stuff like that back then.

But eventually I figured it out.

My first lesson in retaliation and taking on a bully is one I remember well. I was popular enough and part of the group as a rule.

One day in sixth grade our female class bully was organizing a playground game and she had announced that one of the girls must sit on the side and couldn't play with us. Everyone else accepted that, probably out of fear.

But I said that I would then go and sit with the outcast if she couldn't play with us. Imagine my surprise when the leader then said that the girl could play with us. So I got up to join her and our bully said, "No, not you Anja. Just her. You have to sit on the side!"

Surprise, surprise.

 

[heart]

There are others who feel more comfortable if they get even. Different set of values.

There's more to standing up or fighting back then mere "getting even", there is holding someone else accountable for what they do. Teaching them that what they give out, they may get back. For the most brutish among us, that may be the only logic they understand. As my husband is fond of saying, sometimes in life you just have to get loud and dirty with people, no matter how disgusting you find it to be.

There will always be brutal, evil people in the world, but it is the people who refuse to stand up or speak up to them that cause the most trouble in this world. We don't always understand this as children but by adulthood it should sink in.

 

[substitute]

..... So I got up to join her and our bully said, "No, not you Anja. Just her. You have to sit on the side!"

Surprise, surprise.

yeah I could see that one coming. I could also see that, even after you led by example, nobody would've done the same for you and called the bully out. if everyone had successively done what you did, imagine the bully's face!

that's the trouble though. it's not just bully/target is it? It's all those bystanders who let it happen.

 

[Anja]

Yes, there is power in groups.

A lot of fear too, apparently. I'ved always been puzzled by that deal where one person can force a whole group of people to do their will when nearly all others are not in accordance.

It didn't cause me any major life problems to learn through that experience. It takes either mindlessness or courage to stand up to a bully. At the moment it happened I didn't know which style was mine! It hadn't occured to me that others woudn't act on what I thought was the right thing to do.

Some people spend their whole lives "minding their own business." I guess they know what they can handle and what they can't. Some of them have very comfortable lives.

There are times when I can't look the other way. At my age it's less a matter of mindlessness/courage and more a matter of circumstances/energy whether I jump to the "rescue."

One night this summer a huge dog jumped over the neighbor's fence while they were out and grabbed their Pomeranian by the throat and ran off with him. I was out of my chair and chasing this monster of a dog like a bolt of lightning, faced off with him and saved the little doggy.

Afterwards I sat down and thought, "What the heck were you thinking, Girl?"

I'd bet money that I'd do it again. Some people never learn.

 

[Anja]

There's more to standing up or fighting back then mere "getting even", there is holding someone else accountable for what they do.

Agreed.

 

[substitute]

haha yeah, that reminds me of the times when, since I made my determined decision not to ever stand for bullying again, I've done some pretty foolhardy acts of courage... one springs to mind in particular... an ex-con who worked at the community centre I was volunteering at, he was built like a brick privy, covered in tattoos and had been inside for armed robbery and violent stuff. He kept swearing and throwing his weight around all the time and I don't know what got into me, I stood up to him and actually faced him down, looked right in his eyes and didn't flinch. I was scared as hell cos I knew he could kick nine bells outta me in seconds and I wouldn't have a prayer, but somehow I knew I just had to do it.

I read in one of Dumas' books once about Dartagnan: "His first impulse was to be afraid and then, being ashamed, he would force himself forwards." or something like that. I relate to that a lot!! LOL

 

[Anja]

There are times when we act out of impulse and it turns out good. . . Hee.

I had a friend who was a psychiatric nurse who told me of a psychopath who put his hands around her neck. She was this teensy bit of a woman.

"What did you do?"

"I looked him in the eye and said, 'Take your hands off my neck.' and he did." Amazing! I'm glad she didn't try any of that tough stuff in those circumstances.

 

[Not_Me]

I was never successfully bullied as a kid because I always retaliated strongly against aggression. This made it easier to gain allies which made it difficult for the bully to be in a position of strength.

I make an effort to apply this in my adult life. I find that the work world is much less stressful when I blatantly stand up to the bully personalities, regardless of their rank. More often than not, these people will change their behavior. Even if they don't, I'm much more comfortable with an open conflict than to have to walk on eggshells all the time.

 

[Anja]

And for me, it worked okay to just go about the business of doing my job until they lost interest. (And I did have my own little support system to have a giggle about it with and to get a dose of re-self-esteeming. Essential for me.)

As someone here mentioned there are so many different possible responses and different possible reactions that every case seems to scream out that one has to intuit how to handle each one.

But then I would say that. . .

 

[booya moon]

I think self-confidence of the potential victim is the answer to this problem. bullies are attracted to people who appear weak (and you appear that way when your self-confidence is low). As a child I was not bullied, nor was I bullying others. And I think that was because I had a really positive self-image (mostly because of my parents, who never missed an opportunity to remind me how great person I am - that helped a lot). I had a really big mouth, which sometimes brought me into trouble, but I think also kept away the bullies - because they usually were not very smart and I could insult them better than they could insult me
I had an incident in the 3rd grade with a boy, who was teasing me for being a "smart ass" , I ignored him for some time and than just slapped him in the face, and he hit me back (so I am ashamed to tell, got into the fight for the first and last time in my life ). I remember what my dad told me after picking me from school that day: Don`t waste your time on such people. Right now this seems like a terrible thing, but in 15 or 20 years he will be sweeping streets and you will have a PhD and will be having a great life. And guess what, my dad`s prediction came true (not that I think anything is wrong with being a garbage-person).

 

[Anja]

Anja, who loves ALL garbagepersons and recognizes them as God's little helpers, picks up newspaper and swats booya moon.

 

[kyuuei]

There's more to standing up or fighting back then mere "getting even", there is holding someone else accountable for what they do. Teaching them that what they give out, they may get back. For the most brutish among us, that may be the only logic they understand. As my husband is fond of saying, sometimes in life you just have to get loud and dirty with people, no matter how disgusting you find it to be.

There will always be brutal, evil people in the world, but it is the people who refuse to stand up or speak up to them that cause the most trouble in this world. We don't always understand this as children but by adulthood it should sink in.

This was very well put. I just think that this topic is too broad for there to be any one good answer because sometimes it's true, the only way to handle some brutes is with brute force (I know there was only one time in high school I truly felt like the only way to defend myself was to fight back, but I wrote about it earlier), but it's picking the time to and knowing when the other possible solutions are the best ones that makes this difficult.

Children aren't so good at looking at an array of possibilities and selecting a different tool for every job. Usually what seems to get them through the day is what they tend to always use until they have no choice.

I've heard people say that it'd make them feel terrible or "stooping to their level" if they were to retaliate. I think those people perished in the survival of the fittest class. There are definitely times where you need to be nasty and fiendish right back to your enemy, just as there is time to act more mature and take a deep breath and dismiss the behavior as abnormal and insignificant. I suppose your values, and whatever lets you sleep better at night, the satisfaction of either teaching them a lesson or dismissing their best efforts to thwart you is the main key. Whatever best helps you handle the situation is what you should go with.

I just hope your kid finds her tool Substitute!

Anja, who loves ALL garbagepersons and recognizes them as God's little helpers, picks up newspaper and swats booya moon.

Garbage collectors are nothing to sneeze at. They get paid more than most public school teachers around here.

 

[heart]

Imagine if no one came for the trash.

 

[kyuuei]

I envision an Idiocracy-esque build up with trash avalanches.