Bullying

[I Tonya]

It's easier for them to prey on the weak. They're bored with their lives, and depending on how toxic they are, don't interact or feed them...otherwise stand up for yourself.

 

[Yuurei]

It's easier for them to prey on the weak. They're bored with their lives, and depending on how toxic they are, don't interact or feed them...otherwise stand up for yourself.

Lol. I am not, nor have I ever been, weak or timid. I stood up for myself.

Unfortunately, some of my biggest bullies were teachers and other adults. I got in far more trouble -detention/suspension, called a ‘lost cause/ just a bad kid’ and generally tossed aside-had my desk put in the back of the room facing the corner fir an entire year-and generally denied an education. So, no, that doesn’t always solve the problem.

 

[pep talk]

"Is that it then? It's rather sad if that's it; if the choice is to either bully or be bullied."

No. That's not it. There are other ways, for sure. I now you wanted bullies to reply, but...sorry, mate, I'm just another bullied person. All the way past college. I eventually learned to keep to myself and to keep diaies. What I usually say to people don't make sense to them, so they either think I'm crazy, weird, or a target. I have suffered indescribably in the hands of bullies. In the end, I have learned to thank them (of course, I do still indulge in very sadistic fantasies of justice, but I know that that is never the path forward). I thank them for having made me internally stronger and even more determined in my ideals/ attitudes than before. No one can bend me or break me, I will just keep on getting back up. Not because they want a good fight, or practice target. I get back up because I CHOOSE TO.
Anyway, I diverge.
Middle school is brutal, and kids are all learning- bullies usually feel horrible about themselves, and thus have to take it out on someone else. There are the followers,of course, who will repeat cruelties because they are immature and just want to "fit in" with the "cool" crowd.
They will grow up to regret their teen selves. Maybe they will always hate themselves.
As for the bullied- they should do everything in their power to still thrive, whether it is through writing, art, clubs, or anything that they can still exercise their levels of self- confidence.
I wish your daughter the best of luck. Remind her of the positives in her life- concentrate on what she does well- and remind her that stupid people are just that- stupid. Encourage her to hang out with good people, exemplary people. An email or two to teachers and the principal as a heads up wouldn't hurt, either. Good luck.

 

[Morpeko]

I'm not really sure why I'm answering this question, since the OP probably won't be reading this and this thread is dead, but I feel like contributing anyway.

I'd like if people here could talk about their experiences of bullying, and if anyone's found a way to deal with it, what is it?

Parents - how do you deal with it when your children get bullied?

I'm interested in comments from people who might be or have been bullies themselves. I want to explore the mindset of both bully and victim, in the hope that I'll be inspired with *something* to tell my 11 year old daughter when she comes home crying again tomorrow

I've been both the bully and the victim, but more so often the victim, and it's really been life-changing to have to experience it. I'm not really sure why I was bullied. Maybe it is because I had no confidence and didn't fight back. I sort of think I deserve it, but that might be an after-effect of the bullying.

I didn't receive verbal abuse all that much (mostly just lame "insults" like being called a nerd/geek), or maybe I just don't remember it. Mostly, I remember the physical stuff. And very vividly. A girl writing swear words in sharpie marker all over my books and binder. Being shoved in the halls. Someone putting me inside of a trash can and a bunch of people laughing at me for that.

My self-esteem is pretty much zilch now and I do view myself as a piece of trash so I guess it worked. I never really found a good way to deal with it. I still think about it often and get triggered by very certain scenarios. It took me ten years to be able to write about the stuff that happened, maybe in another ten I'll be able to actually talk about it with a counselor or something. It just makes me feel very uncomfortable to even think about. I'm shaking a bit while writing this post, actually. It also turned me into a really angry person with a lot of vengeful tendencies and some even violent ones. I'm not proud of that side of me, but it exists.

As for when I bullied people, I was a cyberbully who insulted people based on their looks behind a computer screen. A complete coward. I thought it helped me feel better and I thought I was being funny at the time, and now I'm just disgusted by myself whenever I think about it. I never did anything more than that, because I didn't think anyone would take actual bullying from me in-person seriously due to my size.

If I had children and they were being bullied, goddamn, I don't know what I'd do. I'd try to find a good therapist, I guess. I wouldn't be able to tell them anything to make them feel better. I have a tendency for being too pessimistic and I'd probably end up not giving them the usual advice, but say "it won't get better" or something sad like that. Actually, thinking about my potential kids getting bullied makes me never want to have any.

Kid getting bullied? Teach them Krav Maga. Kick between legs, punch to temple/back of head, choke, etc...

Bullies bully people that don't fight back. Once that bully gets his ass whooped, he won't come back.

This post amused me because I actually do Krav Maga now (several years too late). Martial arts did give me more confidence, though.

 

[Morpeko]

I used to wonder whether I became how I am because of the bullying and ostracism. Then I considered that perhaps I was bullied and ostracised because of how I am. I'm not sure it matters one way or another.

Same, I can't figure this out, really. I also am not sure if figuring out which one came first is very useful to me, but it's something I think about often anyway.

 

[Black Sun]

I have this thing where even if I am insulted to my face I don't feel anything in the moment. I didn't do anything about the bullying besides look at the person with a blank face and carry on. People who have crossed me have had bad things happen to them somehow (2 died and 1 person's father died a painful death) so that is pretty funny. Most of my awful experiences with people happened at home.

 

[Jaguar]

My dad is bully, how can I solve this problem?

Get your own place?

 

[tony_goth]

Very simple advice :

Let's say : someone is bullied at school.

If serious disciplinary action against the bully is not taken, it means the school's top management is accomplice to bullying. By experience they don't defend bullies' victims seriously, and if they do say so they lie most of the time. If someone has two faces, don't look at any of these faces. Fraudulent authorities are children's worst enemies.

Serious disciplinary action means, e.g. for a punch towards a child in 3 rolling years :

1st time : formal warning at least
2nd time : short suspension at least
3rd time : long suspension at least
4th time : expulsion at least

And not towards your child but any child. And I'd expel a bully at his best for a second time bullying in 3 rolling years, yellow card red card. The above is extremely lenient. At your child's school, absolutely nobody is your friend. Period. Failure to do at least the above means you have to blacklist the school forever and permanently, even if some day they say "we have made some changes against bullying" because it's virtue-signalling, and will probably be a lie. Don't be naive.

A child is vulnerable. In such cases he must go to another school, be home schooled, and if impossible to the country/state or something, moving from home has to be considered. And if impossible your child has to punch the bully, even if he'd be expelled.

If my dad punches me, I'll simply punch him. Period. Nobody is untouchable. Period again.

School is the place where you learn responsibility. You make trouble to the school, you get out. You might be spoiled at school, you will not be spoiled by the outside world except if you get a job where you're untouchable. A child will suffer from any penalty, but a penalty which does not cause a disorder of any kind is essentially useless.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Very simple advice :

Let's say : someone is bullied at school.

If serious disciplinary action against the bully is not taken, it means the school's top management is accomplice to bullying. By experience they don't defend bullies' victims seriously, and if they do say so they lie most of the time. If someone has two faces, don't look at any of these faces. Fraudulent authorities are children's worst enemies.

Serious disciplinary action means, e.g. for a punch towards a child in 3 rolling years :

1st time : formal warning at least
2nd time : short suspension at least
3rd time : long suspension at least
4th time : expulsion at least

This could easily be turned against the victim. Let's say this one kid is being bullied relentlessly, and one day he decides to punch the bully. Under this, the victim would end up being punished.

We can say violence is unacceptable, but what about teachers and staff turning a blind eye towards bullying ? People seem to be much less bothered by that than the idea of a kid trying to stand up for himself.

 

[tony_goth]

This could easily be turned against the victim. Let's say this one kid is being bullied relentlessly, and one day he decides to punch the bully. Under this, the victim would end up being punished.

Simple advice in this case : the victim was wrongfully punished. We might tolerate 3 occurences of bullying because it's a children's problem. We might tolerate... 0 (zero) occurences of serious wrongful punishment to a child because it's an adult's problem. Bullying is serious if the author is a child. Bullying is very grave if the author is an adult (he used the child to bully). An adult bullies or lets bullying, remove your child from school because you can't reasonably expect any actual change from them. A child might pay half-fare, an adult must pay full-fare.

An adult bullies a child at school, means the school is out of your life... for life. Zero tolerance for that. Zero, Nada. Period.

Even if the wrongs are shared. I don't care, it's exactly the same. Child abuse from adults is never acceptable. Maybe a pass might be given if the adult is mentally ill or something. But school managers are almost all mentally sane. No pass for them, no pass. Once is too much.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Simple advice in this case : the victim was wrongfully punished..[/B]

Fine, but do you trust school administrators to make such a distinction?

 

[tony_goth]

Fine, but do you trust school administrators to make such a distinction?

It's necessary, but not sufficient.

Disciplinary action has to be taken against the bully. Disciplinary action against the victim is acceptable only if he gave a gravely disproportionate response. If response was the same or barely more important, no disciplinary action has to be taken against the victim. If it does be, remove the kid from school because the school has become out of trust.

The school does not make its work as a school, it's not a valid school. Your child is more important than the school, and your child's interests are a priority.

 

[Jaq]

It's necessary, but not sufficient.

Disciplinary action has to be taken against the bully. Disciplinary action against the victim is acceptable only if he gave a gravely disproportionate response. If response was the same or barely more important, no disciplinary action has to be taken against the victim. If it does be, remove the kid from school because the school has become out of trust.

The school does not make its work as a school, it's not a valid school. Your child is more important than the school, and your child's interests are a priority.

I don't what school you're talking about. I usually saw bullies and victims get like suspended, the victim just for defending him/herself if the bully threw a punch.

 

[tony_goth]

I don't what school you're talking about. I usually saw bullies and victims get like suspended, the victim just for defending him/herself if the bully threw a punch.

It's a general... school case, which could be applied in analoguous situations. In this case, the advice is unchanged for me : you remove the kid from the school. The school failed. Don't let your kid fail.

The victim punch case is only for failure from the school to discipline the bully while on difficulty to move to another school, I mean it's the last chance you give your school. They didn't take their last chance, you terminate. Period.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I punched back. And was often in trouble for it. Sometimes teachers only caught the end of it and the instigators got off scot free while I got sent to the office.

I still advocate punching back. IME, school authority figures are hopelessly inept and can't be counted on to handle these situations fairly or nip bullying in the bud. In some cases, I even saw teachers take the side of bullies, making it obvious they were probably themselves bullies growing up.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I punched back. And was often in trouble for it. Sometimes teachers only caught the end of it and the instigators got off scot free while I got sent to the office.

I still advocate punching back. IME, school authority figures are hopelessly inept and can't be counted on to handle these situations fairly or nip bullying in the bud. In some cases, I even saw teachers take the side of bullies, making it obvious they were probably themselves bullies growing up.

Same thing happened to me. It's definitely tarnished the way I view authority (Unrelated, but the high-profile political fuckups of my teenage years didn't help).

 

[Coriolis]

It's a general... school case, which could be applied in analoguous situations. In this case, the advice is unchanged for me : you remove the kid from the school. The school failed. Don't let your kid fail.

The victim punch case is only for failure from the school to discipline the bully while on difficulty to move to another school, I mean it's the last chance you give your school. They didn't take their last chance, you terminate. Period.

On the one hand, I wish this were an option for more parents. Most cannot afford to send children to a school other than the (mostly free) public school in their town or district. They cannot homeschool because they have to work. COVID-19 has upset alot of these routines, forcing many parents into effectively homeschooling, so my comment applies to more normal times. On the other hand, though, because few families have other options, short of moving to another town, I would prefer communities bite the bullet and address this issue once and for all. Staffing shortages are an obvious place to start. School staff are reluctant to penalize what they don't witness, and are more likely to witness something if there simply are more of them: smaller class sizes, and dedicated health staff like nurses and counselors. I don't know how far that would get, but it's more than we have now.

As someone who was bullied, I agree: no child should have to put up with that, and school staff who don't put a stop to it are complicit. Bullying teaches the wrong lessons to all involved.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

As someone who was bullied, I agree: no child should have to put up with that, and school staff who don't put a stop to it are complicit. Bullying teaches the wrong lessons to all involved.

I'm trying to figure out what's going on in the heads of staff who see it happen and just let it go on. Is it just a matter of not wanting to make their job more difficult? The thing about that is that the staff have a lot more power in that situation than any of the kids have, I would think. Why wouldn't they use it? I wouldn't necessarily expect them to send people to detention every time teasing occurs, but what about a verbal intervention? Do they fear the parents complaining about it? How many bullies even have parents that would give a shit?

Probably the answer is, regrettably, more because they share the sorts of value judgements of the person doing the bullying. As we've seen lately, lots of adults consider that behavior admirable even.

 

[tony_goth]

Most cannot afford to send children to a school other than the (mostly free) public school in their town or district. They cannot homeschool because they have to work.

Simple idea in this case : the parents work normally. No need to imitate traditional teaching with 2-hour sessions for each course. Just teach self-teaching and demand (I did mean demand and not ask) them to do some homework. The child will probably be willing to do it if he knows that's the only reasonable way to avoid bullying. I mean, many poor parents are able to tell their children "I wish I could give you more home comfort or better food or better toys, but we can't afford them". Children are not stupid. I think I'll teach my son economics before 7 because I think teaching these subjects at late teenage or early adulthood is a retarded thing to do. Most college-like things can be taught to children if prepared in the appropriate way.

Homeschooling may take only a hour a day for the parents.

Isolation shouldn't be feared too much. Online socialization is real socialization.

 

[RadicalDoubt]

Simple idea in this case : the parents work normally. No need to imitate traditional teaching with 2-hour sessions for each course. Just teach self-teaching and demand (I did mean demand and not ask) them to do some homework. The child will probably be willing to do it if he knows that's the only reasonable way to avoid bullying. I mean, many poor parents are able to tell their children "I wish I could give you more home comfort or better food or better toys, but we can't afford them". Children are not stupid. I think I'll teach my son economics before 7 because I think teaching these subjects at late teenage or early adulthood is a retarded thing to do. Most college-like things can be taught to children if prepared in the appropriate way.

Homeschooling may take only a hour a day for the parents.

Isolation shouldn't be feared too much. Online socialization is real socialization.

In theory this is a decent idea, but requires children to be at a reasonable age to be left to their own devices, a child to have the self motivation to learn, an environment which is conducive for self learning, and for parents to have some sort of background in how education works. These are not feasible constraints for a lot of people and, especially since bullying itself is a major cause of mental health issues (such as depression, which is a massive killer of motivation), is even more so. Children are definitely not stupid, and with the right push many can accomplish a lot of things that you would never expect, but without the right background in skills and, for some children, discipline, self learning about subjects that must be understood for eventual integration into adulthood can often be difficult without the hand of a tutor or parents giving a bit of direction.

Severe bullying, especially such that greatly effects your child's mental health, must be addressed and is well addressed through removal from the situation, but long term isolation without reasonable conditions for socialization and learning that accommodate the single learner can also greatly effect a child's help. Online socialization is real and can do wonders for the isolated, but there are steep learning curves if this is a child's only form of socialization when integrating into adulthood, especially if the interest is in pursuing careers and endeavors which require primarily in person interaction.