"Bible is as Toxic as Quran, but Christians Don't Believe the Bible Literally"

[Mustafa]

Superior to what?

Hi Corolis.
I was replying to Mole.
And Allah is vengful, that means he replies to offenses (like many are calling the Quran toxic). Sometimes he leaves you wander in blindness.

Aristoteles called God or the first thing ever the first mover. In Bushido and Asia and such worlds you have to respect your elders, those who were there before you and has more experience.

I said there is no compulsion, so you don't have to bow to bow Allah now, but when you experience hardships you'r knees will fail you and you will bow. Then you are feeling Allahs anger.

Actually I don't know what the Quran says. But Muslims and Protestans spesifically believe in the unknown. I am NF and believe in unity under one 'heaven' so does Islam.

 

[Mustafa]

[MENTION=22067]riva[/MENTION] we have the same God.

 

[Lark]

Hi Corolis.
I was replying to Mole.
And Allah is vengful, that means he replies to offenses (like many are calling the Quran toxic). Sometimes he leaves you wander in blindness.

Aristoteles called God or the first thing ever the first mover. In Bushido and Asia and such worlds you have to respect your elders, those who were there before you and has more experience.

I said there is no compulsion, so you don't have to bow to bow Allah now, but when you experience hardships you'r knees will fail you and you will bow. Then you are feeling Allahs anger.

Actually I don't know what the Quran says. But Muslims and Protestans spesifically believe in the unknown. I am NF and believe in unity under one 'heaven' so does Islam.

This is confused, this is not God, God is not mocked.

 

[Riva]

Listening to the "easter reflective meditation" from the Church of England on the radio yesterday I dont believe that they believe in the bible either, I dont simply mean in an observant of tradition, or giving tradition and other literary sources perhaps, since the was a lot of talk about Shakespeare, but I dont believe that they believe in anything supernatural what so ever.

Which I think makes them atheists.

Perhaps it's the ghost of Charles Darwin reminding the Church of England the phrase 'survival of the adaptable'.

 

[Mustafa]

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] so you want to hunt us? The fact is you are running from the law. We don't run from anyone. I wouldn't have life any other way. Real understanding is in forgives, like when you forgive mistakes. So Peace.

I don't know so much about Christianity, but muslims don't hunt them. There could be some deluded muslims. My imam is collaborating with the church.

But man desires to continue in sin.
He asks, "When is the Day of Resurrection?"

 

[Lark]

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] so you want to hunt us?

Us who?

 

[Lark]

Perhaps it's the ghost of Charles Darwin reminding the Church of England the phrase 'survival of the adaptable'.

I dont know what you mean. Its not the first time.

 

[jcloudz]

Hi Corolis.
I was replying to Mole.
And Allah is vengful, that means he replies to offenses (like many are calling the Quran toxic). Sometimes he leaves you wander in blindness.

Aristoteles called God or the first thing ever the first mover. In Bushido and Asia and such worlds you have to respect your elders, those who were there before you and has more experience.

I said there is no compulsion, so you don't have to bow to bow Allah now, but when you experience hardships you'r knees will fail you and you will bow. Then you are feeling Allahs anger.

Actually I don't know what the Quran says. But Muslims and Protestans spesifically believe in the unknown. I am NF and believe in unity under one 'heaven' so does Islam.

interesting.


christians are not suppose to act like crusaders of their god but your religion tells you to do so?

 

[Thalassa]

I disagree with the assertion.

I have a lot of experience with various christians, and I can tell you that most on the fundamental protestant side take it very literally. Like, 'the earth is 12,000 years old' literally. Like, get red in the face and scream at you if you suggest otherwise literally. Catholics are probably the best Christian denomination at taking the Bible metaphorically, with Lutherans a close second, but most of the random 'Churches of Give Us Money' do not.

Why Christianity works and Islam does not is that the bible has a new testament, which 'fulfills the old' according to them. So all the wife beating gay bashing first born slaying can be chalked up as pre-christ, therefore not necessarily (or literally) gospel. The religion is more like a redemption story, and you're supposed to follow your main character role model only after the third act transformation. Islam doesn't have that. Take out the New and the Old looks a lot like the Quran. What Muslims need is a Jesus to come along and form a new branch of Islam in his name, so the lore can be kept but the blood transcended.

Mohammad was no Jesus. A prophet isn't enough. Only the son of Allah will do.
It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it. Any volunteers?

It's exactly as you say. There are some interesting things in the Quran. Probably my favorite part is the sort of yin yang parallel between Muhammad's two favorite wives: his first wife was 40 years old to his 25 when they married, she was Jewish and influenced his religious ideas, she was apparently the only woman whom he was faithful to, until she died. She apparently also kept him in line....his favorite of his later wives was Aisha, the child bride, this time much younger rather than much older, and she was with him when he died. There is a metaphor in there somewhere.

But otherwise yeah the Quran is backwards of the Bible, and I don't mean Arabic language - I mean it gets more horrible and violent while the Bible gets more peaceful and loving. There's a rational path of evolution towards God's true nature in the Christian Bible...while the Quaran calls God duplicitous and tricky, which are generally words used to describe Satan...most peaceful Muslims concentrate on Mecca rather the the violent later sick twisted Medina period.

Muhammad was definitely no Jesus, in fact some Muslims will tell you that Jesus was weak or a failure, though they consider him one of the prophets. One of the things I find offensive is that the Quaran describes Jesus as killing one of his classmates as a child.

 

[Thalassa]

Actually I don't know what the Quran says. But Muslims and Protestans spesifically believe in the unknown. I am NF and believe in unity under one 'heaven' so does Islam.

This explains a lot.

 

[Thalassa]

Over many hundreds of years both the Judaic and Christian bibles have been subject to biblical criticism using many diverse disciples.

The result of this long scholarly biblical criticism has been to detoxify the bible.

By contrast the Koran had been subject to no Koranic criticism, and remains as toxic as the day it was written.

The Koran is a toxic medieval text which has not entered the modern world, and is used today to justify the horrors of Islam, such as jihad, terrorism, the violation of the rights of women, violation of the rights of homosexuals, the abuse of children, discrimination against Jews, Christians and Infidels, it justifies slavery, it teaches Islamic supremacy, the rejection of liberal democracy and the rejection of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and not least, it justifies anti-semitism, the mark of evil in the modern world.

Pretty much. That's what Ayaan Hirsi Ali claims, as a former Muslim and atheist who told very religious Muslims it would be better to become Christian, and who now advocates Islamic reform.

 

[Mole]

Mouslims are often highly educated, and the first word revealed in the Quran was and is 'read'.

The simple fact is that more books are published every year in Spain than in all of the muslim world.

And science is simply conducted outside the muslim world.

So muslims live in an abyss of ignorance, and regard the rote memorising of the koran as being literate.

And this abyss of ignorance is filled with violence and discrimination.

 

[Thalassa]

I think it might have something to do with nationalism too. The majority of the Catholic population in Texas is Hispanic whereas the majority of non-Hispanic Americans is non-Catholic Christian. The non-Catholics probably see Catholicism as foreign almost as much as Islam

No, that's not what it is. The South is filled with descendants of Scots- Irish protestants, people who are historically known for an insular honor culture of sheep herders, who ironically practiced matriarchy to a degree (thus duals over a ladys honor 200 years ago, and redneck bar fights over women and "dear momma" songs filling country music stations)...anyway, yeah the Ulster Scots are supposedly similar to the Japanese and some Islamic Arabic people in their regard for "honor." It's also been called shame culture, which is more negative, but the principle revolves heavily around tribal good of community and vengeance towards outsiders (theoretically based in generations of having to protect herds, then later fighting off others in their American settlements, Civil War included in that narrative).

 

[Thalassa]

I think any Christian would admit the Old Testament God was not a 'loving one' but do you know why? There are reasons and dogma entwined in all of this that makes arguing religion pointless, really.

Because religion is also about interpretation and that is why there are many different religions and I could explain the above from a Christian perspective.

From an Orthodox belief I couldn't because they interpret the text differently and place emphasis on other things and I haven't studied enough of their religion to pretend to be knowledgeable.

Catholics have a different Bible they use than Christians. They have books in it that Christians don't use. Again, interpretation and emphasis.

You either don't believe or you do. The majority of religious people in the world are doing less harm than atheists would like to admit.

That isn't to say humans haven't exploited and used religion to manipulate and control. I think any belief system can be abused and twisted.

So this is an alarmist view. It could be just as bad as x if taken literally....

Well, yes. Anything in extreme can be dangerous. The Catcher In The Rye was a muse for a murder. So what does that mean? We censor religion texts just like other books that people deem too controversial or dangerous?

It's not necessarily a different Bible, it just has a few more books. I honestly wasn't aware Susannah, Judith or the Apocrypha made that much difference, outside of Catholics clearly having more regard for women. A lot if the other stuff is the same in Lutheran and Episcopalian churches, regarding the procession of mass, communion, the Nicene creed, etc...

I'll concede that my experience and Dawkin's might be somewhat ignorant of American reality; there seems to be more Christians nutjobs there than I had initially assumed

Again, I don't think people are attributing enough to racial memory or else historic cultural narrative - the source of "Christian nut jobs" in America is that "settlers" were originally religious outcasts with strong alternative beliefs of varying proportions. Then they reproduced greatly and called this their land, so when enough had done so, there was enough of a cohesive group of religious non conformists, to try to push out newcomers from other more mainstream faiths, or no faith.

Also part of the fallout of this is ignorance. There are too many fundamental Christians in America who lack rational religious teaching, then they more easily fall prey to mixing up political propaganda with the Bible.

 

[Coriolis]

Pretty much. That's what Ayaan Hirsi Ali claims, as a former Muslim and atheist who told very religious Muslims it would be better to become Christian, and who now advocates Islamic reform.

I read her book last year. As critical as she is of Muslims, the evidence she presents points to culture rather than religion as the origin of the abusive treatment she and many others experienced, especially women.

And science is simply conducted outside the muslim world.

During Europe's "Dark Ages" the Muslim world was where classical knowledge was preserved, and scientific inquiry was pursued. The diverse and significant contributions of Muslim scholars fueled the eventual European renaissance. Islamic science has sadly declined in the generations since, but the reasons are largely political. Islam as a religion is no more antithetical to science than Christianity. This article from the Economist provides a brief but decent analysis.

 

[Thalassa]

I read her book last year. As critical as she is of Muslims, the evidence she presents points to culture rather than religion as the origin of the abusive treatment she and many others experienced, especially women.


During Europe's "Dark Ages" the Muslim world was where classical knowledge was preserved, and scientific inquiry was pursued. The diverse and significant contributions of Muslim scholars fueled the eventual European renaissance. Islamic science has sadly declined in the generations since, but the reasons are largely political. Islam as a religion is no more antithetical to science than Christianity. This article from the Economist provides a brief but decent analysis.

Muhammad is the problem. I think anyone who believes otherwise is either naive or uninformed.

Also, many of the things that are attributed to Muslims actually would be more accurately attributed to Arabic history. Yes, Arabic people contributed those things, it really has very little to do with Islam.

 

[Mustafa]

Us who?

Those who believe in God.

 

[Mustafa]

interesting.


christians are not suppose to act like crusaders of their god but your religion tells you to do so?

You can't find a pattern with us, unless you are born believer, and even then you'll struggel.

 

[Mustafa]

This explains a lot.

The best thing you can know is you know nothing. I know alot more than you do about Islam, you are simply talking from an ignorant enemies standpoint.

 

[Mustafa]

The simple fact is that more books are published every year in Spain than in all of the muslim world.

And science is simply conducted outside the muslim world.

So muslims live in an abyss of ignorance, and regard the rote memorising of the koran as being literate.

And this abyss of ignorance is filled with violence and discrimination.

Muslims contributed alot to the scientific advancements, for example the rennesance in 1600. Arabic books don't have an ISBN often. One of our imams wrote a book that is being educated in western schools. And you have quotes from for example imam Ali, all good.