[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[EJCC]

[MENTION=19700]Fuzzy Conduit[/MENTION] [MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION] you two are motivating me to start watching Orange is the New Black. Watched the pilot and it made me really uncomfortable -- but I guess it gets better?

Never watched Voyager, since the only compliment I ever heard anyone give it was that Janeway was an awesome role model. My Star Trek viewing has probably been 95% TNG, 1% TOS, 1% Enterprise, and 3% DS9.

I think I would agree with a lot of this. My process is probably a bit different though. I do a lot of mental prioritizing, probably very Si/Ti. The first thing I do when I get to work is evaluate the situation and prioritize tasks based on how long they've taken in the past as well as their importance to things running smoothly.

I'm actually horrible at this-- I've never been good at estimating the amount of time that things will take, except in the vaguest terms. The longer the task will take, the worse I am at that estimation. I wonder if it is Si/Ti.

Then I assign duties based on the individual strengths of my staff. I try to be as fair as possible, dividing the less desirable jobs evenly and rotating people mid-shift.

I really try to base my management style on my experiences with past managers. I remember vividly things that I hated, and things that I really liked. Humility and fairness are big ones (Fe). I hated having undesirable tasks passed off to me because I was an inferior, so I make sure I still do things like dishes and taking out the trash. I also put a lot of emphasis on teaching and try to answer questions, even stupid ones, as thoroughly and gently as possible. Ultimately I would rather be bothered with simple questions than have my staff do their job's incorrectly.

Oh yes. 90% of the managerial things I care a lot about are things that, when absent, have my life difficult as a subordinate.

Also YES to the bolded. I am exactly the same, for exactly the same reason.

Do you get up in the morning feeling happy?

Noticed this is ESTJs.

What an interesting question. Had never thought about it until now.

Discounting feeling resigned and irritated that I couldn't sleep for just a few more minutes -- which is, and always has been, my standard morning mood -- I think my default has always been neutral/determined. Even when I was a kid.

 

[prplchknz]

[MENTION=19700]Fuzzy Conduit[/MENTION] [MENTION=360]prplchknz[/MENTION] you two are motivating me to start watching Orange is the New Black. Watched the pilot and it made me really uncomfortable -- but I guess it gets better?

Never watched Voyager, since the only compliment I ever heard anyone give it was that Janeway was an awesome role model. My Star Trek viewing has probably been 95% TNG, 1% TOS, 1% Voyager, and 3% DS9.


What an interesting question. Had never thought about it until now.

Discounting feeling resigned and irritated that I couldn't sleep for just a few more minutes -- which is, and always has been, my standard morning mood -- I think my default has always been neutral/determined. Even when I was a kid.

yeah stick it out for orange is the new black for at least 5 episodes. if you still hate it after that you are allowed to stop.

i'm rewatching tng now and there's so many paralells between that show and my philospophical and humanitaran beliefs.

 

[Showbread]

I'm actually horrible at this-- I've never been good at estimating the amount of time that things will take, except in the vaguest terms. The longer the task will take, the worse I am at that estimation. I wonder if it is Si/Ti.

Interesting. My ESTJ 1w2 father is also terrible at this. Everything ALWAYS takes at least 15 minutes longer than he thinks it will. I always attributed it to his ADHD, but perhaps there is another reason for it. Perhaps that he always assumes things will go precisely according to plan, and they generally don't. I usually give myself a cushion for error. It has always been one of my strengths. I generally complete tasks and arrive places within minutes of my estimations.

 

[EJCC]

Interesting. My ESTJ 1w2 father is also terrible at this. Everything ALWAYS takes at least 15 minutes longer than he thinks it will. I always attributed it to his ADHD, but perhaps there is another reason for it. Perhaps that he always assumes things will go precisely according to plan, and they generally don't. I usually give myself a cushion for error. It has always been one of my strengths. I generally complete tasks and arrive places within minutes of my estimations.

That's exactly my problem. No matter how often I tell myself that I need to give myself extra time for error, I either don't do it, or give myself too little. I rationalize it through my hatred of wasted time: "If I give myself this extra time, then get the task done in the amount of time that I should, then I'll have to sit around -- screw that, thanks but no thanks".

 

[Showbread]

That's exactly my problem. No matter how often I tell myself that I need to give myself extra time for error, I either don't do it, or give myself too little. I rationalize it through my hatred of wasted time: "If I give myself this extra time, then get the task done in the amount of time that I should, then I'll have to sit around -- screw that, thanks but no thanks".

That's too funny. Because if he does finish something early or on time he tries to start something else to avoid being idle. And then the new task inevitably ends up making us late. Either that or he triple checks that the first task was actually done properly. Making us late.

 

[EJCC]

That's too funny. Because if he does finish something early or on time he tries to start something else to avoid being idle. And then the new task inevitably ends up making us late. Either that or he triple checks that the first task was actually done properly. Making us late.

This sounds familiar.

I've never been sure why I hate idleness so much. Wondering if it's more related to enneatype or MBTI. Probably MBTI.

 

[prplchknz]

This sounds familiar.

I've never been sure why I hate idleness so much. Wondering if it's more related to enneatype or MBTI. Probably MBTI.

yeah I won't start something until I have clear idea of the end product and at least a half hour of buffer time.because i'm not gonna waste energy or stress myself out over something i'm not 100% sure on. And I drive a lot of people insane, because i don't spring into action i can appear to be doing nothing but i'm planning an attack or setting up a strategy for something and weighing all options and potential outcomes in my head. and until i find a tolerable one I won't waste energy. and watching people running around doing things just to do things drive me insane. I'm like sit! have a cup of tea turn on a movie. just enjoy the ambience

 

[Showbread]

This sounds familiar.

I've never been sure why I hate idleness so much. Wondering if it's more related to enneatype or MBTI. Probably MBTI.

Potentially enneatype also. I'm pretty sure my dad is a 163. I think 1s use their competency to make themselves valuable/needed. I also think EXXJs just tend to be kind of twitchy and stimulation seeking... I hate idleness as well.

 

[á´…eparted]

That's exactly my problem. No matter how often I tell myself that I need to give myself extra time for error, I either don't do it, or give myself too little. I rationalize it through my hatred of wasted time: "If I give myself this extra time, then get the task done in the amount of time that I should, then I'll have to sit around -- screw that, thanks but no thanks".

I find this kinda fascinating. I have always assumed that ESTJ's would be excellent at time management and time estimation. Partly because my dad (ESTJ 1w2) is very good at it. I'm also very good at estimating how long something will take, and I'm subsequently on time for everything pretty much right on the dot.

This sounds familiar.

I've never been sure why I hate idleness so much. Wondering if it's more related to enneatype or MBTI. Probably MBTI.

One thing I'll never understand about ESTJ's is the inability to idle (my dad is very much like that). I don't like to idle either, but I don't need to be doing something productive to feel satiated in that way. I can just shoot the breeze, read something, listen to music, etc. and I'll be fine. ESTJ's see, to always identify that as idling. I define it as not making progress forward towards long-term goals.

Potentially enneatype also. I'm pretty sure my dad is a 163. I think 1s use their competency to make themselves valuable/needed. I also think EXXJs just tend to be kind of twitchy and stimulation seeking... I hate idleness as well.

Yeah I agree that it's an ExxJ thing, and being a 1 (and I'd imagine a 3 or 7 as well), would make it stronger. I just need to be stimulated. If I am not in some manner I get irritable quickly.

 

[SD45T-2]

I'm pretty sure my dad is a 163.

 

[Daria]

Hi, I'm new and an INTP, so apologies in advance if I don't express all this very well.

I was in a romantic/sexual situation with an ESTJ who is someone I work (she oversees my work sometimes)/ sometimes I see socially (same broad group of friends). Without getting into details stuff happened that I think the ESTJ feels embarrassed about. How would you react to embarrassing personal situations? Would you lie? Avoid? Become angry? How would you want the person you embarrassed yourself in front of to act? Like it never happened? Should I try and reassure them? I have always thought of this person as super confident, but this incident makes me think she isn't as confident as I thought. I realise these are personal questions and I'm being a bit vague, but please any advice would be very welcome.

 

[Riva]

Just watch Orange is the New Black (the Kate Mulgrew character for reference).

I think her character on Star Trek Voyager might also be ESTJ, or possibly ENTJ. I suppose she plays that type well.

The character she plays in star trek is a very good example for a estj.

Kligons (especially klingon culture) is a really good example for estjs too, with the exception of boring worf.

 

[Scorpinfp]

Hi all! I met my wonderful ESTJ boyfriend last October and have been reading through all of the posts in this awesome thread since then! I have finally decided to join in :hi: Let me say it has been quite informative in helping me understand him.

Last weekend we did our Love Languages together. He scored 10 on Quality Time (the highest you can score for anything is 12) and I got Words of Affirmation, which is his absolute lowest (He scored a 2.) We spend all of our free time together and he has asked me to move in together so I guess that is an obvious indicator of his love for me. He was a willing participant in taking the quizzes together and reading through the ideas and suggestions for each type. However, he said he thinks that there should be a good balance of all the love languages and it should happen naturally, and not feel forced. At times, I need verbal reassurance for my insecurities. He thinks if he has to tell me something, it is personal toward him because he must not be showing it through his actions, which he is. There are certain situations where a few words would provide much needed comfort and support to me. His solution is just to avoid situations that he thinks would trigger my insecurities. I don't like that idea because it would mean missing out on a shared activity that we usually enjoy together. From my perspective, I have presented him with a problem and a solution. I will even ask him directly and tell him specifically what would make me feel better. Yet since he doesn't think it will help, he is unwilling to try it. Any advice on how I can better explain the love languages practical application to him?

(Sidenote: My insecurity is something I am working on on my own as well. I don't expect him to take responsibility for my feelings. This is just something that would help me feel more loved and secure as we continue to build trust in a new relationship. )

Thank you all for all of your posts in this thread! It has been very helpful to me thus far. I am very glad this exists and I'm looking forward to your feedback.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

The character she plays in star trek is a very good example for a estj.

Kligons (especially klingon culture) is a really good example for estjs too, with the exception of boring worf.

Worf is an INTP or ISTP, me thinks.

 

[Riva]

Worf is an INTP or ISTP, me thinks.

Worf has no Fe at all and lives not only by a kligon code of standards but by his own set of Fi ethics.

Itps though not bubbly can get plenty bubbly due to their Fe when excited about things. Worf was on tng and on ds9 but was never ever excited even to begin with.

Compare him to miles o brien from ds9 who is an istp. Though not the most jovial guy he had plenty of expressive Fe moments.



Also work had a huge broom up his ass which screamed Te. Oddly enough Te doms - probably due to being extroverts - when socializing loses that broom up their ass.

Even data had more fe than worf.

 

[EJCC]

Hi, I'm new and an INTP, so apologies in advance if I don't express all this very well.

No problem. Your username and avatar are excellent btw. Love that show.

I was in a romantic/sexual situation with an ESTJ who is someone I work (she oversees my work sometimes)/ sometimes I see socially (same broad group of friends). Without getting into details stuff happened that I think the ESTJ feels embarrassed about. How would you react to embarrassing personal situations? Would you lie? Avoid? Become angry?

Tough one -- not something I think about or talk about much. I think I would pretend like it had never happened, and try to change the subject if anyone brought it up. (I wouldn't lie, because I'm not good at lying at the drop of a hat.) I rarely feel embarrassment in moderation, so it usually overwhelms me whenever it's present. But since talking about it makes it worse, I push it down until it disappears.

How would you want the person you embarrassed yourself in front of to act? Like it never happened? Should I try and reassure them?

Only if it's honest and strong reassurance -- e.g. if very few people, if any, thought it was worth being embarrassed about.

I have always thought of this person as super confident, but this incident makes me think she isn't as confident as I thought.

I still see myself as confident even though I am relatively easily embarrassed. But then again I don't know the details of the situation.

Hi all! I met my wonderful ESTJ boyfriend last October and have been reading through all of the posts in this awesome thread since then! I have finally decided to join in :hi: Let me say it has been quite informative in helping me understand him.

Oh damn, you read the whole thing? Good for you! I'm so glad it's been helpful to you.

Last weekend we did our Love Languages together. He scored 10 on Quality Time (the highest you can score for anything is 12) and I got Words of Affirmation, which is his absolute lowest (He scored a 2.) We spend all of our free time together and he has asked me to move in together so I guess that is an obvious indicator of his love for me. He was a willing participant in taking the quizzes together and reading through the ideas and suggestions for each type. However, he said he thinks that there should be a good balance of all the love languages and it should happen naturally, and not feel forced. At times, I need verbal reassurance for my insecurities. He thinks if he has to tell me something, it is personal toward him because he must not be showing it through his actions, which he is. There are certain situations where a few words would provide much needed comfort and support to me. His solution is just to avoid situations that he thinks would trigger my insecurities. I don't like that idea because it would mean missing out on a shared activity that we usually enjoy together. From my perspective, I have presented him with a problem and a solution. I will even ask him directly and tell him specifically what would make me feel better. Yet since he doesn't think it will help, he is unwilling to try it. Any advice on how I can better explain the love languages practical application to him?

It doesn't seem like he understands what that test is actually for -- or at least it seems like he got completely the wrong lesson out of it. "Good balance of all the love languages"? I know you said you've been direct with him, but you may need to be even MORE direct. Something like this (only a little nicer, probably):

"I express affection in X way, you express affection in Y way, and we both expect affection to be given in those same ways. We don't register other styles of affection as BEING affection, sometimes. We have particular needs that can't be met unless we learn each other's languages and accommodate one another. I've started trying to accommodate you, having registered your particular love language need. And it would enrich our relationship, and do wonders for me personally, if you would adapt similarly."

And if he asks questions, and/or is skeptical, don't see that as him challenging you or trying to debate you -- see that as external processing. Working it all out by seeing if you can fill in the gaps in his understanding. So if he goes "I don't know if that makes sense, and I'd still rather do things my way", feel free to ask him why, so you can find those gaps on your own, and fill them in. (I don't know if this will be hard for an INFP to do. You may not end up needing to do it, but just know that ESTJs tend to make declarative statements that SOUND final, but are actually an invitation for refutation.)

Thank you all for all of your posts in this thread! It has been very helpful to me thus far. I am very glad this exists and I'm looking forward to your feedback.

No problem. Managing this thread has been quite the journey -- I feel like I've learned as much as the people who've asked me questions.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

Worf is an INTP or ISTP, me thinks.

I always thought he was an ISTJ, 1 or 8.

Even data had more fe than worf.

True.

 

[Olm the Water King]

Is it possible that an ESTJ female might find someone 'too nice'? Could this be an issue in romantic relationships?

 

[EJCC]

Is it possible that an ESTJ female might find someone 'too nice'? Could this be an issue in romantic relationships?

I suppose. It's possible for an ESTJ to think someone is "too" anything -- they go in with particular expectations and get thrown off when those expectations aren't met. That's the case with pretty much everyone, to an extent, but ESTJs even more so, considering their reputation for poor behavior when things don't go their way.

 

[Olm the Water King]

That reminds me of an ENTJ I used to know. Are ESTJs and ENTJs similar in this regard?

Sometimes I let my INFP sentiments get to me in a an externalized way. But most of the time, I'd be passive-aggressive or something. I know that can be every bit as problematic though. It's something I've been working on.

 

[entropie]

Do estjs masturbate ?