[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[Giggly]

I love you ESTJs!

 

[EJCC]

Philosophical, maybe a bit personal too.

Oh, okay. I don't tend to avoid those questions. I answer them openly, unless I distrust the other person's motives. For example, if they were asking me if I believed in god, and they were an evangelical atheist, then I would answer warily and with the expectation that a fight would start. I wouldn't answer quite as thoroughly as I might with someone I trusted to listen and be respectful.

Anyway, seems like the ESTJ is quite close to his personality, but he's a bit... Slower and hot-headed. I see an INTJ as a possibility too, but I don't see him as an intuitive.

I would agree that he seems more STJ -- though I could see ISTJ as well -- because of what you said about his tendency to give unsolicited advice. That's much, much more of a thing with STJs than NTJs.

If you have experience with intuitives, do you feel like you don't understand something they're telling you? As in asking them what they meant or misunderstanding them but thinking that you understood them but finding out that you didn't?

I have a lot of experience with intuitives -- my parents are INTP and INFJ. I would say that generally I'm very good at understanding intuitives, and following their trains of thought. When I'm in situations where someone doesn't understand another's train of thought, it's more likely that others don't understand my train of thought, than the other way around.

The only times I don't get N trains of thought, are with Ni users, especially INTJs. I would argue that that's because, if my understanding of dominant Ni is correct, their standard operating procedure is to act with the expectation of a huge number of possible responses from others. I'll get confused when they make a vague statement, or ask me a vague question, because it won't be clear to me what they're expecting of me -- and the answer will be, they aren't really expecting anything, or they're expecting any number of things, and are waiting to be surprised. Ne doesn't do that, and Ne I can understand.

I love you ESTJs!

Aww We love you too!

 

[EJCC]

ISTJs, in my experience at least, seem very uptight - no parties, no calling up friends and organizing meetings, etc.. Maybe he's a 50% I/E, or perhaps 50% I/E and 50% T/F... ESTJ, so far, is the closest I could get. With your help, I had a bit different image about an ESTJ in mind earlier.

I'm glad.

Check out the rest of this thread -- or at least, as much of it as you care to tackle -- if you want a fuller picture. There's a shit-ton of data in here! And the earlier posts are a good representation of less-developed ESTJ mentality, as I was still in my late teens when I created it. (I'm 22 now.)

Interesting. Well plus one for those who say I'm an NJ then. Also, it turns out that ENFJs are Ni users, which would explain why we could understand each other so well. I wonder how well Ne users can understand Ni users or vice-versa.

I definitely see you as ENTJ from your forum communication, mostly because I see more Ni than Ne in you. I was surprised when so many people thought you were INTP.

As for Ne/Ni communication: there's very often a communication breakdown there. Someone may have created a thread about it, though it's possible that a thread got derailed into talking about it once.

I'd recommend the forum threads about Ne/Ni, and also the "Ask an INTJ" thread (because I don't think there's an "Ask an ENTJ" thread?), if you wanted more data on it to help you make your self-typing decision.

 

[EJCC]

Well my writing style seems to be INTP-ish, makes me wonder how can writing style differ from a person.

I don't know, you write more concisely than an INTP, I think. (I also see no Fe in you whatsoever, and INTPs sometimes have a little bit of a charmer tendency that dry NTJs don't have as much.)

Of course, I'm biased, and so are the people who think you're INTP... so...

Well I'm looking for a direct example. I have tried reading an INTJ thread somewhere else (can't remember, I think it was some INTJ forum), but it was a bit boring. There was a lot of reference to various signs, symbols, a little mysticism, etc.. That's definitely not my thing. I may attempt to read it over here though, that's a good idea.

You could also just ask the INTJs about your own behavior, in the same way that you just did with me and your ESTJ friend.

 

[Jstrazz]

Other than the obvious, in what ways do you think ESTJ's differ from ISTJ's? Especially when confronting emotional people

 

[SD45T-2]

What do you guys like doing for fun? Why?

Reading. Whitewater rafting is pretty awesome. I recently started cycling again. Almost anything to do with railroading. I'd love to work on steam locomotives if I had the chance. I can't think of any compelling reasons why.

 

[Nicki]

Reading. Whitewater rafting is pretty awesome. I recently started cycling again. Almost anything to do with railroading. I'd love to work on steam locomotives if I had the chance. I can't think of any compelling reasons why.

What do you like to read? Those sound like fun things to do. Why railroading?

 

[EJCC]

Other than the obvious, in what ways do you think ESTJ's differ from ISTJ's? Especially when confronting emotional people

Generally: I think ISTJs are less goofy. ESTJs have a bit of a silly switch when they're feeling particularly confident/comfortable in a situation -- whereas I've found that even when they're in a good mood, ISTJs are more deadpan. (I attribute this to Ne being less prominent in ISTJs.) Also, due to Te, ESTJs are a lot more likely to meddle in other people's business, and a lot more likely to act immediately to resolve things that are bugging them. ISTJs have less of a tolerance for that, and are therefore more independent, and also more likely to sit and feel hopeless in the midst of crisis mode, instead of getting mad enough to act, like ESTJs would.

When confronting emotional people... what do you mean by "confronting", and what do you mean by "emotional"? Do you mean angry people, upset people, sad people? People who need to be confronted as in calmed down, or shut down?

 

[SD45T-2]

What do you like to read?

Joseph Wambaugh, P. J. O'Rourke, military history, to name a few.

Why railroading?

I'm not sure exactly. I grew up around trains and I've been interested in mechanical stuff ever since I was little.

 

[Ism]

Do yoooooooooou like puppies?

How much do you like puppies?

Or do you like kittens?

OR BOTH???!?!

 

[EJCC]

Do yoooooooooou like puppies?

How much do you like puppies?

Or do you like kittens?

OR BOTH???!?!

Puppies: They're cute
Kittens: ALL OF THE FEELS I LOVE KITTENS. I just love them, and I want them, and I want them in a basket, and I want little bow ties, and I want them to be on a rainbow!!!

 

[SD45T-2]

Do yoooooooooou like puppies?

Yes.

How much do you like puppies?

A lot.

Or do you like kittens?

OR BOTH???!?!

They're alright.

 

[Phoenix]

My dad's a 3w4 sp/so ESTJ who has been suffering from severe depression and ill health because he's over-worked himself to a near death state. Any tips on how do I get him to slow down and not be such a workaholic. Currently, he works 18 hours a day and he's over 65.

He said he'll slow down when I have a job and a settled life ... well, he doesn't ... I've been settled for quite some time and he has no "obligations" left ... but he just won't retire. Says that retiring is as good as stepping into the grave. However, I feel like he is decreasing his life-span with every passing day that he spends more than 18 hours working. Oh .. he's already at the top of his profession and one of the most successful and respected men in his field ... so that's not what he's working for .. or is he?

How do I assure him that he doesn't need to slave away anymore ... we're all secure and able on our own.

 

[Ism]

Yes.

A lot.

They're alright.

Puppies: They're cute
Kittens: ALL OF THE FEELS I LOVE KITTENS. I just love them, and I want them, and I want them in a basket, and I want little bow ties, and I want them to be on a rainbow!!!

ACCEPTABLE RESPONSES. YOU MAY NOW PROCEED.

 

[EJCC]

Question 1: If someone (for example your father/mother) would've explained something to you about a situation, would you argue with someone else by using it (father's/mother's explanation) as your own opinion?

If I agreed with it and I trusted them, then yes.

Imagine a person's knowledge as a puzzle. There's a space in the puzzle for X opinion, and there's no data there yet. The person (e.g. father/mother) puts a piece there, and it seems to fit? So why not keep going with the puzzle, adding around that piece, and if it turns out that it doesn't fit that well after all, then you can replace it later. So yeah, if their opinion was the only one I knew of, and it made sense, then I'd adopt it as my own, and I'd then use my own/their opinion in an argument if it ever came up.

Question 2: Would you ask someone to provide practical proof if he provided scientific proof and explained them to you (you GOT them) if you had a different opinion previously?

Probably. I'd be skeptical enough that I'd want as much evidence as possible, as difficult to refute as possible. Not just something that would work "in theory".

1. You had an opinion about something and thought that a decision X was right. However your friend/brother/etc. disagreed, so you asked him to provide you with practical proof (even though he has provided you with scientific proof). He calls you up and tells you that he has practical proof. What do you do? Do you immediately solve it over the phone?

Oh, absolutely. Why not? Closure is awesome. I love getting things solved.

(although I might check his work afterwards, behind his back.)

2. Assuming the "1." was negative: you listen to his practical proof, say okay, agree with him, you both say bye. Would you be thinking about it for the next half hour and then calling him back up to tell him that you still think that he's wrong? Maybe coming up with an alternate solution of your own (for whatever reason), even though his solution is perfectly good?

I don't think I'd tell him I agreed with him, if I didn't. I'd only call him back with an update if new information/a new thought came to me after we'd talked last. It wouldn't have been "Sorry I lied to you, I never agreed, because of this." That's bizarre. It would be "I thought I agreed, but maybe I don't, anymore. What about this?" And that would be a legitimate question, to see how he'd counter that argument.

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] One more question:

You'd have a solution of your own, both solutions are relatively good and bad - one can hardly be said to be better than the other. Just like mentioned in the previous example. What do you do? Would you keep to your opinion and try to enforce your solution to happen or indirectly do things that would lead to your solution being taken instead of the other? Even though the other solution is just as good, not better not worse.

It depends on whether or not I had some sort of superficial attachment to my solution, i.e. preferring something about it that doesn't actually matter all that much. Then I might try to convince them. But if they were truly equal solutions in my eyes, then I'd consider further debate on it to be a waste of time and energy and I'd let it slide.

 

[Dr Mobius]

I was going to look around the thread to see whether this question had been asked already, but then I saw how long it was. Anyway how does your Ne manifest? And when it does do you resemble nfps? And could you give an example of what Te-Ne would look like?

 

[RaptorWizard]

What's it like being about the rarest type on the forum?

 

[EJCC]

I was going to look around the thread to see whether this question had been asked already, but then I saw how long it was.

Yep. Totally justified. I don't even remember 80% of the questions I've answered here, anymore.

Anyway how does your Ne manifest?

Random silly jokes. If you see an ESTJ being slightly ridiculous or off-the-wall, it's the Ne.

We're good at taking data and sorting it all into general "trends" or "norms".

And when it does do you resemble nfps?

Our Ne is much more subdued and limited than NFP Ne. I would argue that our crazy mental connections can only be made within certain limits; those connections aren't as "random".

And could you give an example of what Te-Ne would look like?

Wanting to avoid boring work by doing work that's fun, but not at all a high priority, and justifying it by telling yourself that it's technically still on the to-do list and technically still productive.

Hope that helps

What's it like being about the rarest type on the forum?

To be honest: Constant judgement. Every time I post anything, I'm either proving someone right, or proving someone wrong. That would bug some people, but I like it, because I'm different enough from the ESTJ stereotype that I know I'm proving more people wrong, than right. My existence here has a purpose, and all that's required for me to fulfill it, is for me to be myself.

 

[Nicki]

How does Ne work for you?