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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Sorry, there's more!
Wow, you're inquisitive! Is it because of your ex? Either way, you write excellent (though difficult) questions, and it's fun (and brain-teasing) to answer them.

Why do ESTJs seem to fear the worst? Is it their way of being ever prepared for any situation?...Is it truly reassuring to worry over hypothetical situations that may never come to be so that you are prepared, or is it more of a neurotic response to not knowing what will happen?
There are two general reasons why I might fear the worst. One, which happens unconsciously, is fear of the unknown. I get scared for the worst, so I (for whatever reason) spend more time worrying about the bad option than being positive about the good option. The second reason, which happens consciously, is that I just assume that the worst will happen, to keep me safe emotionally.

Also, I have noticed some ESTJs act very put upon about doing things even if they had always planned to and did not find them any particular problem. Is this a way of asking for thanks? I really took it personally at first and tried not to inconvenience them or to alter the situation to be less of a problem and they still kept complaining. I expressed thanks frequently and in a heart felt way. What should I have done?
I have a pretty hard time wrapping my head around the idea of acting put upon for something you needed to do anyways. The only instance where that would make sense to me would be if they were planning on doing it at a different time, and you were messing with their schedule. Otherwise, I have no idea. With regard to keeping them from complaining... in my case, when I'm put upon and people apologize to me over and over, it actually irritates me more the more they say sorry. I'd recommend complimenting their work once they're finished - or, if they're still pissed off, just leave them alone for a bit :)

I tend to try to make people I care about feel appreciated through cards, their favourite treat/meal from the grocery store, and little presents. My ESTJ would rarely acknowledge or comment that he had even received them. I finally became frustrated and stopped giving him written thank yous etc because it felt like a personal rejection of me and anything I could offer. When it came up one time, he said that it "made him feel awkward and he wasn't sure what to say". He also was very reluctant to accept help as well as expertise in any area from me, although he was happy to give it without any sense of obligation. Does this have more to do with type or with the individual. How would you best make an ESTJ feel appreciated and loved?
The bolded part really strikes me. This has definitely happened to me in the past. For example, when I was in elementary school, instead of saying emotional goodbyes to my friends on the last day of school, I would sneak out so no one saw me and I wouldn't have to deal with it. His reaction was probably a variation on what I used to do (if you know what I mean). I think, in his mind, you were making huge events out of things when you did that, in an emotional way - like you were opening your heart to him, and expressing your feelings to the fullest extent. And as you probably know, an ESTJ reaction to "expressing your feelings" is going to be pretty awkward. I guess I would recommend showing your affection/love in a more casual/indirect way that doesn't turn it into a mini ceremony - e.g. taking him out to a nice dinner, complimenting him, giving smooches/hugs :)
 

Fidelia

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Regarding the advice part of things, that created a lot of friction with me and my ESTJ at the beginning of our relationship, when he was trying to decide how to invest his inheritance from his parents, who had recently passed away. I know that I come to decisions mostly through talking things over with other people and clarifying my thoughts through expressing them and through the reactions and ideas of others. I'm not looking for them to solve it, but it's not a done deal in my head before I have considered several points of view. I didn't feel like I knew much about investing, and he didn't ask directly for advice, so I assumed he just needed to talk about it and bat some ideas around. I vent to process problems and he thought I was asking for advice, which I wasn't. Must be F/T. With my dad, who is an ISTJ, my mum or I will throw several possible options out there. He will immediately either decide that we will have our way (even if we haven't committed to anything) or else decide privately what it will be and do it, forgoing any discussion at all. I thought it was just a lack of communication, but maybe it has more to do with type?

What you said about the need to be funny or clever with people you don't know also was behaviour I recognized.

About seeking out malleable people, I generally mean in friendships as there is much less choice over who you work with.

What kind of conversational subjects would you consider non-small talk/substantive?
 

Fidelia

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I'm interested in knowing because of my ex, but also because there are a lot of ESTJs that I see but don't know well enough to ask questions to. In schools, some people are NFs (who stand out and you can see inside their heads if you are interested), there's the odd NT, but most are SJs (who are completely foreign to my way of thinking and little more opaque). My dad is an ISTJ, which has some commonalities, and I have difficulty understanding him or communicating with him. My friend's husband was an ESTJ but they moved away a couple of years ago. They often tend to be bosses where I work, and there are also some among the students I teach. I think my NF ways may mildly irritate them at times and I also like having people properly organized in the filing cabinet of my mind.

For me, written compliments are lower key because no one has to watch you receiving them and when you need a little pick me up, they are there to go back to. Plus that's what would make me happiest from someone else. I never thought of it being seen as pouring out my heart. Because of my ESTJ's disinterest in most things emotional, as well as in many of my thoughts/projects/musings, he didn't see a whole lot of the core part of what mattered to me, other than that I cared dearly for him.

I found that with expressing physical affection/intimacy, he was the one that wanted to take the lead at all times. Would you say that is typical?

As far as the put upon thing, one book I read said it is an SJ coping mechanism. I don't know if that's true or not. He even recognized he was doing it. He'd say, "I might act like I mind and complain, but I really don't mind doing such and such". For me the complaining negated any help being given and made me feel beholden and mad. One example would be on trips where we had more boys in his hotel room than girls in mine. He would invariably need to sleep on a cot while I had a bed. He would comment to coworkers and friends on how arduous the trip had been and about the discomforts of sleeping on a cot etc. I realized after a while that much of what he says is exaggerated to be much better or worse than it really is for the effect and almost as a way of boasting. He neither feels that things are as good or as bad as he might let on to others that he doesn't know well.

How could a teacher make life better for you as an ESTJ student?

I think that's it for tonight. Thanks for answering!
 

EJCC

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Also, I'm not sure how to use the quote option. Do you highlight it first and then press quote, or do you go into your own message or ...?
You press the quote button. The way I've been quoting different sections is manually writing
before a passage and /quote (in brackets) at the end of it.

I found your answers all very interesting and many of them really rang true with what I've seen around me. I have a sneaking suspicion though that if I asked many ESTJs, they wouldn't have been able to come up with clear answers like that. What has made you interested in type and reflective enough to even want to help us out this way?
For whatever reason, MBTI really appealed to me from the start. I think it's because it cleans up so many loose ends - and you know how ESTJs like loose ends getting cleaned up :newwink: It explains so much! There were all these ESTJ-specific things that I read about where I thought "Wow! I'm not just a freak! Other people do these things too!" So... part of my MBTI-obsession probably comes from the fact that I have a nerdy/Asperger's/crazy-Ne streak. (A quote from Typelogic.com that essentially describes my ESTJ adolescence: "I've encountered ESTJs whose Ne overshadows the auxiliary Si function--for whatever reason--to the extent that there is an appearance of NT radical geekism.")
But to answer the second part of the question: Most of the reasons for my creation of this thread are in the first post. One other reason is that I kind of think of this as a test. Can I do this? Can I prove myself, a n00b of less than 500 posts, in front of 5,000+ post experts? Another reason is that there isn't much that I like more than being an expert on something - even if, in this case, that thing is myself.

I especially found the compliment thing interesting in terms of teaching students. What is a compliment to one type wouldn't be to another. I have no interest really in either where I rank in relation to others (well, not at the bottom, but...) or in someone telling me that I am reliable and so I wouldn't ever think to compliment someone about that. However, from the SJs I know, I think that does matter a lot.
Yet another reason why MBTI is awesome. I didn't fully realize until I took the test that everyone thinks so differently from one another. I actually thought my INFJ mom would test the same as me!! Lol! (But to my credit, she's so loud around friends and family that I had no idea that she was an introvert.)

I can't imagine not going back over your life and thinking about what you might have done the same and what you would have changed.
I can't imagine what it would be like to always have your head more in the future than in the present :) But that's why we need each other for society to work, you know?

I'm sorry to bombard you with questions, but it is so rare to find an ESTJ to ask, that it seems that I need to seize the day! Thanks!
No need to apologize. This is really fun for me, actually! Rock on! :banana2:
 

Unique

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I don't understand them. At all. :) I have loads of xxxP friends, but when it comes to, you know, issues of being on time, or not living as structured a life, I can't relate at all. I try, but I can't think of any reason why doing things ON TIME wouldn't be a high priority! :steam: Which is one reason why my one ENTP friend is such an enigma. I've just gotten to the point where I think "Just let her be. She gets the job done, so whatever methods she uses are okay in the end. Try not to obsess about it..." :D

Oh thats interesting, a lot of ESTJs usually keep hounding us to use judging rather than letting us do it our way, I've noticed that some have learnt to accept it which I'm thankful for not only for my sake but for theirs seeing how 50% of the population are Ps
 

Fidelia

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Oh yeah, about that last point in your post, about you in elementary school - he's already decided that he will not show up for the little good-bye ceremony they have for the people that are leaving on the last day.One more question:* do you get uncomfortable and avoid people close to you that are terminally ill or in the hospital?* Does it make you feel in danger of being emotional or of being out of control etc?* I suspect my uncle is an ESTJ and I've noticed that he is very much that way.* I've seen that in some others and wondered if it is coincidence or type.
 

EJCC

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About seeking out malleable people, I generally mean in friendships as there is much less choice over who you work with.
Well, I generally look for friends (at first) based on shared interests. I sift out the ones that are more compatible with me from there.

What kind of conversational subjects would you consider non-small talk/substantive?
Anything sincere. I didn't mean to sound snooty there! I just meant stereotypical small talk, i.e. questions that you ask because you feel obligated or because you have nothing to say, NOT because you actually care.

I found that with expressing physical affection/intimacy, he was the one that wanted to take the lead at all times. Would you say that is typical?
Erm...I'm not the ESTJ you should talk to about romance. I won't go beyond that.

As far as the put upon thing, one book I read said it is an SJ coping mechanism. I don't know if that's true or not. He even recognized he was doing it. He'd say, "I might act like I mind and complain, but I really don't mind doing such and such". For me the complaining negated any help being given and made me feel beholden and mad. One example would be on trips where we had more boys in his hotel room than girls in mine. He would invariably need to sleep on a cot while I had a bed. He would comment to coworkers and friends on how arduous the trip had been and about the discomforts of sleeping on a cot etc. I realized after a while that much of what he says is exaggerated to be much better or worse than it really is for the effect and almost as a way of boasting. He neither feels that things are as good or as bad as he might let on to others that he doesn't know well.
Wow! I don't think I relate to this at all! Maybe I'm just weird.

How could a teacher make life better for you as an ESTJ student?
I'm fine, I think. Just... always be one step ahead of me. My one expectation of teachers is that they be superior to me in as many ways as are relevant to the class*. (e.g. when teachers are bad spellers, that always offends me to a degree, because I'm a spelling geek.) Honestly, though, I don't really need any special treatment.

EDIT:
Oh yeah, about that last point in your post, about you in elementary school - he's already decided that he will not show up for the little good-bye ceremony they have for the people that are leaving on the last day.One more question:* do you get uncomfortable and avoid people close to you that are terminally ill or in the hospital?* Does it make you feel in danger of being emotional or of being out of control etc?* I suspect my uncle is an ESTJ and I've noticed that he is very much that way.* I've seen that in some others and wondered if it is coincidence or type.
At the moment, no one close to me is terminally ill or in the hospital (although if someone close to me was terminally ill, I would have essentially no idea how to handle it), but I've had some uncomfortable experiences at old folks' homes. I volunteered at an old folks' home once, writing down a man's life story. It was horrible. His wife had died recently, and he cried whenever he talked about her. He was a very sweet man, and I liked him a lot, but when asked if I would visit him after I finished the note-taking for the "life story", I knew right away that the answer was no. The environment was so sterile and depressing, and it was just like visiting a dying man. I'm not sure why it makes me so uncomfortable... I just don't know how to handle it. I draw a blank, you know?


*ESPECIALLY organization! Disorganized teachers make me nervous - what if they lose my papers???
 

Fidelia

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Are there things that make you feel guilty/remorseful? What kinds of things would bother you?
 

WickedQueen

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Have you ever been interested in journalism?

i did notice that you wrote one-woman battle? There is absolutely no intent for connection between the first question and the second observation question:) Ne coincidence or something. Not being sarcastic. Thanks.

I'm interested in journalism, yes. Very much.

In fact...

I am a journalist! :smile:
 

WickedQueen

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Are there things that make you feel guilty/remorseful? What kinds of things would bother you?

My arrogancy and my sharp tongue often hurt people. It's my biggest guilt.

Many things bothers me. But its usually because of:
1. the lack of money,
2. stupid/emotional/exaggerate people (I have no patience with them!),
3. delayed stuff,
4. and not-yet-come-true dreams.
 

Fidelia

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If you feel guilty from being arrogant and sharp-tongued is it because you hurt someone else or it goes against something in you personally?

Delayed stuff? Like what? Big life decisions, knowing whether you got the job, what school you are accepted into etc, or little things too?

Not yet come true dreams - like impatience to make them happen or is it being unhappy in your present station in life?

Why do emotional people bother you? Is it that you don't know what to do, or that you think they are being babies about stuff and should suck it up, or that you think that what they are feeling is not worth getting upset about and they are wasting your time?
 

Fidelia

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Does your response to people being emotional around you vary depending on if they are your inner circle people or if they are more casual friends? If so how would you respond differently? If someone wants to bring up something to you but knows that they may cry in front of you which would make you feel uncomfortable would it work better for them to write it or would that seem like making it an even bigger deal?

EJCC, does it bother you when teachers don't follow the exact course outline because you don't know what to expect, or are you okay with that sort of thing?

I really found the nursing home thing you wrote interesting because that has also been my experience with the ESTJs I know. I have never felt that kind of discomfort, but I wonder if it has more to do with early and often exposure as a kid and into adulthood. Is it a matter of facing mortality? Depressing to see grownups going back to being more like children? Not knowing what to say to them? Do you think that if you had been accustomed to that environment earlier it would have made it less uncomfortable for you? I'm interested, because I often take my students to the local nursing home. We do a lot of talking before though about what to expect. We go over things that they could say, what to do when old ladies want to hug them, how to shake hands, picking out music that the patients would recognize and enjoy etc. We also talk about how some of the Alzheimer patients are really blunt and may even be insulting and why they act that way. I'm hoping that by doing this, it not only gives a performing opportunity, but that it generally increases their comfort level with unfamiliar people and makes it more normal for them. Maybe personality type plays into comfort level too though. That's something I hadn't considered.

Do you feel quite comfortable walking into unfamiliar situations, or do you like to know ahead of time what to expect. With me for example, I want a chance to watch for a little bit before I jump into something. I don't have to be best at something, but I do want to feel that I won't embarrass myself either socially or otherwise (like at a sport etc). Most of the ESTJs I know are pretty smooth at faking their way along until they feel comfortable and I don't think are nearly as worried about social rejection.

Do you like to try new kinds of food? The two ESTJs I know best are excellent cooks and they like to try all kinds of things. They also take great pride in opening up other people's palettes to new food that the person previously believed they hated (I now eat eggs and fish) by thinking of creative non-offensive ways to introduce them. I don't know if this is across the board or not.

If you were having a group of people over for dinner, what number of people would you pick and why?

Do you feel the need to keep your house very clean, or are there messy ESTJs too sometimes?
 

Fidelia

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Wicked Queen,

What kinds of things do you write about? Are you reporting facts mostly, or drawing conclusions from the facts as well?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Welcome, WickedQueen! Yay for more ESTJs!!! Hugs! :hug:
And I have a question for you, WQ: Do you agree with most of my answers? Are there any really important ones that you strongly disagree with?

Does your response to people being emotional around you vary depending on if they are your inner circle people or if they are more casual friends? If so how would you respond differently? If someone wants to bring up something to you but knows that they may cry in front of you which would make you feel uncomfortable would it work better for them to write it or would that seem like making it an even bigger deal?
I'm better around emotional people when they're in my inner circle. Instead of awkward-geekiness-"gotta run away now!!!" (i.e. how I am around emotional people that aren't in my inner circle), I become super-tough-"You can count on me no matter what!"-guardian. They can cry on my shoulder, I'll listen to whatever they have to say, I'll give advice if they need it. Mostly, I just hug them and stay quiet. That seems to help them, from my experience.
If I didn't know them well and they had to bring up an emotional topic, I'd rather that they do it in writing. It would be less painful for both of us.

EJCC, does it bother you when teachers don't follow the exact course outline because you don't know what to expect, or are you okay with that sort of thing?
I really, really don't like it. I mean, if you're going to make a course outline, you're supposed to follow it, right? Otherwise it defeats the purpose. And it's not as much that I dislike not knowing what's coming. It's more that I would like teachers to do what they're supposed to do. God, that sounded bitchy and arrogant. Sorry! :doh:

I really found the nursing home thing you wrote interesting because that has also been my experience with the ESTJs I know. I have never felt that kind of discomfort, but I wonder if it has more to do with early and often exposure as a kid and into adulthood. Is it a matter of facing mortality? Depressing to see grownups going back to being more like children? Not knowing what to say to them? Do you think that if you had been accustomed to that environment earlier it would have made it less uncomfortable for you?
Oh, it's nothing nearly as nuanced as that (although the mortality thing DID make me fairly uncomfortable, albeit in a lesser way). It's a gut reaction. It's probably just how awkward it is. I'm sure that if I, for instance, had family that worked in a nursing home, and I visited them often, I would have no problem with it. But in my case, having almost no experience with it, it was very awkward and it was very hard for me to figure out what to do.

I'm interested, because I often take my students to the local nursing home. We do a lot of talking before though about what to expect. We go over things that they could say, what to do when old ladies want to hug them, how to shake hands, picking out music that the patients would recognize and enjoy etc. We also talk about how some of the Alzheimer patients are really blunt and may even be insulting and why they act that way.
That's a very good idea - especially giving them scripts to follow (essentially). That would definitely lessen the awkwardness. Also, better to get them started on it at a young age, because children adapt to new (/uncomfortable) situations easier. I was NOT a child when I had that experience.

Do you feel quite comfortable walking into unfamiliar situations, or do you like to know ahead of time what to expect. With me for example, I want a chance to watch for a little bit before I jump into something. I don't have to be best at something, but I do want to feel that I won't embarrass myself either socially or otherwise (like at a sport etc). Most of the ESTJs I know are pretty smooth at faking their way along until they feel comfortable and I don't think are nearly as worried about social rejection.
I always want to know what to expect, and what's expected of me, so that everything will work out the way it's supposed to. That's what makes me the most comfortable. If that information isn't given, I'll ask (just for my benefit, so I don't screw up). I ask a lot of questions in work situations, when I'm not the boss.
If I look smooth when I'm doing something unfamiliar, I don't necessarily FEEL smooth. :) I dunno if all ESTJs are quick learners, but I try to be. That could be part of it. Also, once we have enough information to do the job, we DO the JOB, and we do it confidently and quickly. (BIG time generalization... but you know.)

Do you like to try new kinds of food? The two ESTJs I know best are excellent cooks and they like to try all kinds of things. They also take great pride in opening up other people's palettes to new food that the person previously believed they hated (I now eat eggs and fish) by thinking of creative non-offensive ways to introduce them. I don't know if this is across the board or not.
I love food! I love new and unusual food. However, I'm not in a big hurry to eat brains and eggs, or anything that would appear on "Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmern". (I'm also not a fan of gelatinous things. Tomato Aspic is my least favorite food in the world.) But the pickier eaters I know think I'm nuts for eating some of the things I eat, e.g. octopus, lutefisk... even if I'm only eating it to say that I tried it (which is why I mentioned lutefisk).
The bolded part really strikes me, because I'm exactly the same way, but not with food - with music. I'm constantly introducing my friends to new music. I feel like, in another life, I would really enjoy working at (or possibly owning?) a record store.

If you were having a group of people over for dinner, what number of people would you pick and why?
I don't care, as long as I know all of them, and I know they'll interact with each other appropriately (and I have enough money/time to make food for them all). Preferably more than two people, though.

Do you feel the need to keep your house very clean, or are there messy ESTJs too sometimes?
I was reading something a while ago that said that perfectionists actually have messier work environments, because they don't distinguish between a small pile and a huge one. Once a small pile accumulates, they just let it go. That can be what my house is like, at its worst. It's an organized mess, though - I have to know where everything is. The key things are always organized perfectly - it's just, e.g, stacks of magazines and such, that make it messy.
I always dust when it's necessary, though. If I see a cleaning problem that's easy to fix, I'll do it right away.
 

Fidelia

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What about having no course outlines? Would that bother you? If several courses of action fulfill the course requirements, but a particular route seems to suit the class better after getting to know them, it seems to me that you would pick that. Would that upset the ESTJs or not?

That's funny about the music thing - come to think of it, most of the ESTJs I have met are really into their music. Usually somewhat unexpected choices too for what I would have thought they'd like.

How would an ESTJ crush manifest itself? What kind of flirting would they do?

Do you develop a particular attachment to certain clothes, or feel guilty about parting with something before it is completely worn out?

What do you think you have in common with ISTJs?

What types are your friends? Do you pick a lot of fellow SJs? Do you usually become friends with introverts or extroverts?

Do you think that many ESTJs are first borns (or first borns of that gender) in the family or only children?

Do you care about what other people think of you? If so, in what sense? Obviously you want people at work to see you as trustworthy, responsible and reliable. What about outside of there?

Why do you think many people view ESTJs so harshly? Are they reacting to unhealthy versions they have seen? I have also noticed that people react strongly to ENTJs and ENFJs. It must be the extroverted judging.

Do you remember many of your teachers from your school career? I find it interesting that the ESTJs I know don't really remember most of their teachers, and yet quite a few end up becoming teachers. I think though that they like administrating more than teaching.

Does administrating appeal more to ESTJs because it is a higher rung on the ladder or is it because they want things run more efficiently or is it because they specifically figure that implementing their ideas would make an important difference?
 

Fidelia

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What do you think you have in common with ISTJs?
 

EJCC

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What about having no course outlines? Would that bother you? If several courses of action fulfill the course requirements, but a particular route seems to suit the class better after getting to know them, it seems to me that you would pick that. Would that upset the ESTJs or not?
It might annoy me, but not as much as having a course outline and not sticking to it. As long as you tell us in advance what we're going to learn throughout the year, and we learn all those things, I'm good.

That's funny about the music thing - come to think of it, most of the ESTJs I have met are really into their music. Usually somewhat unexpected choices too for what I would have thought they'd like.
Yeah, I still remember when I introduced myself on this site and I mentioned that my favorite musical genre is... 70's progressive rock (e.g. King Crimson)... and people were a bit surprised :D

How would an ESTJ crush manifest itself? What kind of flirting would they do?
I'll let Wicked Queen answer this one - I dunno if my experience is common.

Do you develop a particular attachment to certain clothes, or feel guilty about parting with something before it is completely worn out?
Generally, no. And if I do, it's brief. Even things I've had for a very long time, I end up forgetting about after a while.

What do you think you have in common with ISTJs?
That's a toughie! I don't know enough ISTJs. I have an ISTJ cousin, and she's like me only more bookish, more sulky/complaining, more serious (she shakes her head at my silly jokes), harder to convince of things(/less rational), quicker to give in to peer pressure, and darker (not only in her moods, but in her sense of humor; her jokes are pretty dark). Discounting those things, I feel like I have kind of a mind-meld going with her. I relate to her a LOT. She's like a more emo version of me :) just kidding.

What types are your friends? Do you pick a lot of fellow SJs? Do you usually become friends with introverts or extroverts?
My friends, to name a few types, are INTP, ENTP, ESFP, ISFP(?), INTJ, ESFJ and INFJ. Generally it doesn't matter to me whether somebody is an introvert or an extravert, as long as our conversations aren't too one-sided. (Even introverts can be chatty around their friends, after all.)

Do you think that many ESTJs are first borns (or first borns of that gender) in the family or only children?
Well, I'm an only child. But the other ESTJ I know is a youngest child. So I dunno.

Do you care about what other people think of you? If so, in what sense? Obviously you want people at work to see you as trustworthy, responsible and reliable. What about outside of there?
At work, it doesn't matter to me as much whether people like me. If they respect me, and they don't make things unpleasant, then it works. Better that interpersonal issues don't get in the way.
Outside of work, yeah, I want to be liked. Around people I don't know, like I said before, there can be a lot of pressure on me to be charming and likeable. When my jokes fail over and over, or I have (what I would consider to be) a failed social excursion, I get insecure and introspective.

Why do you think many people view ESTJs so harshly? Are they reacting to unhealthy versions they have seen? I have also noticed that people react strongly to ENTJs and ENFJs. It must be the extroverted judging.
It's whatever gives ESTJs the tendency to want everyone to do what they want when they want in exactly the "right" way (and there is only one "right" way - our way). That's probably the E and the J. But seriously, go on any of the numerous SJ hate threads, and you'll find out. In fact, go to the thread where I made my very first post. Excellent examples there.

Do you remember many of your teachers from your school career? I find it interesting that the ESTJs I know don't really remember most of their teachers, and yet quite a few end up becoming teachers. I think though that they like administrating more than teaching.
I remember all my teachers. (But then again, I'm still a student.) I can't remember much about them, but I remember their names and the subjects they taught, and whether I liked the classes.

Does administrating appeal more to ESTJs because it is a higher rung on the ladder or is it because they want things run more efficiently or is it because they specifically figure that implementing their ideas would make an important difference?
You know how ESTJs can be incredibly bossy in their everyday lives, with essentially anyone they meet, because they want the rules to be enforced? Administrating is doing that for a living :) It's perfect for them/us - enforcing the rules without having to make the rules.
 
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WickedQueen

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Quote:
As far as the put upon thing, one book I read said it is an SJ coping mechanism. I don't know if that's true or not. He even recognized he was doing it. He'd say, "I might act like I mind and complain, but I really don't mind doing such and such". For me the complaining negated any help being given and made me feel beholden and mad. One example would be on trips where we had more boys in his hotel room than girls in mine. He would invariably need to sleep on a cot while I had a bed. He would comment to coworkers and friends on how arduous the trip had been and about the discomforts of sleeping on a cot etc. I realized after a while that much of what he says is exaggerated to be much better or worse than it really is for the effect and almost as a way of boasting. He neither feels that things are as good or as bad as he might let on to others that he doesn't know well.



Wow! I don't think I relate to this at all! Maybe I'm just weird.

Yeah, I do that many times. Like when my boss gave me more task than usual, I would complain, but that doesn't mean I mind, I'm actually okay with that. I was just exaggerating.
 

WickedQueen

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Please forgive my bad english m_ _m

If you feel guilty from being arrogant and sharp-tongued is it because you hurt someone else or it goes against something in you personally?

Because he/she gets sad or angry in response for my words. Most of the time I only give brief description of what I thought and I forgot that not all people could understand what am I talking about or take it fully logically. I forgot that people have feelings, so I just brag about things and the next thing I know, he/she get mad of me or becoming very sad and depressed. That's when I start to feel guilty and I wish I was just shut my mouth up.

Delayed stuff? Like what? Big life decisions, knowing whether you got the job, what school you are accepted into etc, or little things too?

Like late coming train, slow internet access, or someone promise me that he/she would do such things for me today, but they forgot or couldn't do it and they say "I'll do it later, tomorrow, or next week."

Not yet come true dreams - like impatience to make them happen or is it being unhappy in your present station in life?

I was planning to wrote a novel and finish it in the end of July, but I don't have much time and I haven't write much until now. It bothers me a lot. I'm afraid things won't go smoothly and I'm not able to finish it on schedule (the schedule that I made for myself, by the way).

Why do emotional people bother you? Is it that you don't know what to do, or that you think they are being babies about stuff and should suck it up, or that you think that what they are feeling is not worth getting upset about and they are wasting your time?

Yes, because I think they are being babies, exaggerating their own misery. I hate it, I think it's so lame.
 

WickedQueen

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Wicked Queen,

What kinds of things do you write about? Are you reporting facts mostly, or drawing conclusions from the facts as well?

I write fiction-novels and I write articles for some magazines. Yes, I reporting facts mostly. I'm not really good in drawing conclusions from the facts, but I can if I have to.
 
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