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Are some humans less conscious than others

EcK

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Well yes, but no. :p *insert evil grin*

I simply can not allow myself to roll over and accept IQ as the true test of intelligence people make it out to be. I remain both skeptical and resilient to that idea.
But I never said I considered it to be 'the true test of intelligence' I just said that it worked. And I didn't say that the size of neural activation patterns etc. = IQ - it's just correlated. Furthermore I agree that yes - as any test - you could probably get 'better at it' but consider that the test is meant for testing children first and foremost. The normal conditions for test taking is a kid who's never had an IQ test. I would not use data from repeat test takers either.

In general however iq research shows that IQ generally stays pretty stable through life - which is a descent indication that it's not a completely shitty test. You seem to be very essentialist in your way of thinking. There are shades of grey ya know :laugh:

Consider this, if there truely is a road on which to travel to high intelligence, it must start at critical thinking. Critical thinking and persistance. Don't take things for granted.
Oh yeah absolutly, if we talk about intelligence at large I agree that it's a matter of personal responsibility and growth. For having seen "Bright kids" classes from up close There were definitly kids in there who seemed more 'fast' than 'deep' and I tend to prefer the later.

And I am of belief that a high IQ, whilest it may well be a result of this ability, does not empyrically prove the existance of critical thinking within the subject. IE. You can have an IQ of 140 and still be as dumb as a mule. (Creationist academics come to mind)
Yup also agreed. Many idiot savants (yes I know not a proper use of the term but I find it amusing :coffee:). As stated earlier I'm talking about idea complexity etc. not whether someone is a DELUSIONAL IDIOT or not :coffee: I know sounds contradictory but it all makes sense when I tell you that in my view being an idiot is a choice. Furthermore these are statistical trends, they do not speak of individuals. The same "IQ" can be reached through different genetic makeups - for example. You could easily imagine someone with better memory retention + a slightly enlarged visual cortex scoring high on IQ without possessing the kind of mental makeup that someone with a more 'general high iq genome' would get (ie: better signal conductivity throughout the whole brain).

So I'm not actually disagreeing outright with anything you say really, you're essentially correct and I concede that fact. But IQ never will be all and end all when it comes to intelligence.
Yeah I agree - I was also just giving alternative viewpoints. Intelligence is like love, it's a pretty vague concept after all - and while we can test for say oxytocin and vasopressin levels the whole 'experience' of love is more of a wholistic thing. So is intelligence, where IQ is a measure but not 'the measure'.
 

Fluffywolf

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....lots of stuff..

We've reached a consensus I feel.
:solidarity:

How long until [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] burst like a volcano watching us procrastinate our way around the topic, you think?
 

EcK

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defers to eck's immense brain and galactic ego
Yes I think we've reached a consensus as well.

:solidarity:

How long until @PeaceBaby burst like a volcano watching us procrastinate our way around the topic, you think?
I'll just find refuge in work. :unsure:
 

EcK

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Here's an anecdote I thought of once. Within the realm of IQ, there are only three types of people. Those that stop at a wall, those that break the wall and those that go around the wall.

Those that stop at the wall, don't care enough.
Those that break the wall care too much.
Those that go around the wall have forgotten what it means to care.

What about those who build the wall ?

Come on you knew it was coming :coffee: :laugh:
 

Cellmold

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I have an idea about it being to do with automation vs mental 'stepping back' and apprehending.

I've not had time to read through the topic so I don't know if this has come up yet (I suspect it has) & I'm aware that this will be a big simplification due to just having sat down and not keeping myself up to date with the material: but if unfamiliar information and the receiving of said information arises freshly in the right hemisphere of the brain and over time is then shifted via familiarity to the left hemisphere (in most average lateralised brains; to be unspecific) then it seems that consciousness could be measured by how effectively an individual could move perspective in order to integrate the previously acquired information for fresh understanding.

Not for reintegration & refreshing as in a memory; but a creation of something that, for brevity's sake, can be called new.

I think anyone can do it, to greater or lesser degrees (and it is these degrees that would come under the angle of this topic), but it has to be trained like any other skill. I'm not just talking about empathy but a whole host of shifting positions. The power of transformative insight shouldn't be underestimated.

Being able to catch yourself in the moment and step back, take a breath, and assess is something that sounds easy in principal but hard in practice.

I think that anyone who can do that with greater regularity and ease approaches at least some form of consciousness that we can understand.
 

Peter Deadpan

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As someone with two 5-wings, I think that the following definitions are important:

consciousness

-the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.

-the awareness or perception of something by a person.

-the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world.

intelligence

-the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills


intuition

-the ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning.

-a thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning

It appears that this entire thread has mainly consisted of two people fighting over an unspoken trophy for "Most Intelligent Man Here." Perhaps it would have been prudent to first ensure you understood the meanings of the words you are using interchangeably, as clearly they are not synonymous.
[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] - You may get troll points for pointing out that [MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION] misspelled "genius," but you effectively derailed your own thread by means of competitive mindless chatter supported by misinformation.

And the award for "Most Intelligent Man Here" goes to a feeling Ni-dom... woman.

(The above assholery on my part is all in good fun - just feeling saucy tonight. On with the discussion.)
 

EcK

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[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION]

As you've been begging for it, and I'm magnanimous (or just foolish)

here are my test results, however I really think at least 1/3rd of the question suck so I don't feel like my answers are necessarily all that meaningful.
Also it is horribly painful to go through these 300 f... damn questions

Your Consciousness Quotient: 75.5%

The Consciousness Quotient (CQ) is a composite psychological construct based on a list of traits, skills and abilities that describe conscious experience. The CQ Inventory (CQ-i) evaluates the frequency of various behaviours and the usage of specific skills and abilities, providing a detailed description of conscious awareness experiences.
To be conscious means to have a degree of witnessing awareness and a degree of freedom of choice when thinking, feeling, sensing and interacting with people and the environment. An important element of conscious experience is intentionality, being the mind-set that allows a person to deliberately choose what behaviour to enact and what attitude to select. ‘More conscious’ (a higher CQ) means a higher degree of witnessing awareness and being less automatic in thinking-feeling-sensing, together with a higher degree of choice when initiating a behaviour. The witnessing perspective, which leads to the ability to observe the inside and outside worlds without engaging with them, is one of the key factors of the CQ construct. ‘Witnessing awareness’ is usually described as the ‘I am experience’, ‘the observer experience’, ‘just being’ (as opposed to ‘doing’), ‘awareness of awareness itself’ and ‘no-mind’. ‘Mindfulness’ is a related the construct, but in terms of modern mindfulness – as it is promoted in the West – being mindful does not go beyond being a cognitive observer.

The everyday CQ is described by Ovidiu Brazdau as “the level of consciousness (or the level of being conscious) that is experienced in the morning, one hour after waking up and after having had a refreshing sleep, without being exposed to any significant stimulus (coffee, TV, radio, music, talking, psychological stress). In other words, the consciousness quotient is the general level of being conscious/aware throughout a day, in regular life conditions.” This level of being conscious can change during life through the process of personal development.

Physical CQ: 69.82%
The Physical CQ refers to the capacity for awareness of one’s body and of the actual elements of the environment (environmental awareness). This factor includes various traits, skills and abilities, such as interoceptive awareness, body posture, tone of voice, awareness of senses (e.g., smell, taste, touch), psychosomatic connections (how the body is influenced by emotions and thinking patterns), detecting automatic movements of the body (e.g., automatic eating behaviours), awareness of the bio-energy of the body, and a connection with one’s physical surroundings.
Your score on the Physical Consciousness subscale is in the upper-intermediate values range, meaning that you are aware of what happens with your own body and of the changes occurring in your environment. It is easy for you to describe your body and various physiological changes while acknowledging at the same time your own needs.

Emotional CQ: 72.22%
The Emotional CQ refers to the capacity for awareness of one’s emotions and feelings, and their development and interactions. The Emotional CQ include traits, skills and abilities related to the emotional world, such as empathy, emotional validation, openness, vulnerability, recognition of people’s emotions, detecting the automatic patterns in emotional life, mirroring others, emotional acceptance, emotional intelligence, the ability to select among emotions and to sustain positive emotions, adapting emotional responses to various social contexts, and acceptance of any emotions that appear in you.
Your score on the Emotional Consciousness scale is in the upper-intermediate values range, meaning that you are aware of your own emotions and feelings. You are capable of assertive behaviour adapted to the environment and your own person. You are empathetic and able to acknowledge at the same time your own emotional changes.

Cognitive CQ: 83.33%
The Cognitive CQ refers to the capacity for awareness of one’s own ideas and thoughts, of the cognitive flow in general. The Cognitive CQ is related to thinking, reflection, judgment, patterns of understanding, ways of meaning-making. It includes specific traits, skills and abilities, such as systems-thinking, intuition, awareness of cognitive filters, metacognition, self-reflection, detection of cognitive biases (e.g., jumping to conclusions, labeling, projection), accepting indecision, flexibility in thinking, critical thinking, present moment awareness, awareness of the limits of words (construct awareness), attention regulation, an ability to act with intention (choice), decision-making, mindfulness (not judging the inner experience), acceptance of multiple perspectives, cognitive openness, creativity, the ability to have a panoramic view (overview) of a specific topic or situation, and the ability to manage the flow of thoughts.
Your score on the Cognitive CQ is in the upper values range, meaning that you have a very large number of the skills necessary to observe and manage your own thoughts. You are a person with a very high level of awareness of the thinking process and you have enhanced abilities in regulating your thought process.

Social-Relational CQ: 81.48%
The Social-Relational CQ refers to the capacity for awareness of the relations and connections with the people around us and the communities we are a part of. The Social-Relational CQ includes traits, skills and abilities related to parental relationships, close relationships, social interactions, perception of others’ communications styles, detecting social deception, cognitive empathy, social intuition, flexibility in social behaviours, outrospection (a means of getting to know oneself by developing relationships and empathetic thinking with others), awareness of in-out groups stereotypes, cognitive openness when discussing matters with others, detecting the hidden agendas of the people we listen to or talk to, and conversational skills.
Your score on the Social Consciousness scale is in the upper values range, meaning that you have an increased awareness of your relationships with others. You can easily identify changes in the dynamics of close relations and you have very good interpersonal skills that allow you to connect with people.
Self CQ: 85.8%
The Self CQ refers to the capacity for awareness of one’s self and one’s own ego (identity). The Self CQ includes traits, skills and abilities related to identity, the self-system, one’s image of life, self-awareness, connections between emotions and thinking, an ability to see one’s self as objectively as possible, flexibility in ego-related thinking (e.g., the ability to make and appreciate jokes about the way we are), self-compassion, self-kindness, post-autonomous ego-development traits (goal in life, ego awareness), awareness of sub-personalities, multicultural self-awareness (e.g., recognizing how cultures you interact with influence your worldview), and autonomy.
Your score on the Self CQ scale is in the upper values range, meaning that you have a very good ability to connect with yourself and observe your identity. This is why you find it very easy to manage your own inner life and to talk about yourself. You gave very good recognition of the multiple facets of your personality and you experience yourself as something more than the sum of the parts of your personality.

Inner Growth CQ: 81.58%
The Inner Growth CQ refers to the capacity for awareness of the process of personal development, transformation and growth. The Inner Growth CQ includes traits, skills and abilities related to the evolution of personality, paradigm shifts, unlearning and learning (through pain or by open learning), openness, the language updating process, accepting criticism, abandoning old perspectives and embracing new ones, noticing resistance to change, learning after peak experiences, detecting the cognitive biases related to learning (e.g., confirmation bias), resilience, awareness of one’s level of development (e.g., using spiral dynamics theory), and an ability to sustain new patterns of thinking/feeling while old patterns slowly lose their grip (awareness of the process of neuroplasticity).
Your score on the Inner Growth CQ scale is in the upper values range, meaning that you have enhanced skills for sustaining your own personality development. You have developed the ability to be open, to accept new experiences and to learn from them. You quickly notice when a situation has the potential to teach you something, and you have developed the ability to see how other people mirror your needs and desires. You are open to criticism and welcome difficult situations, as you see that they can make important contributions to your personal development process.

Spiritual CQ: 62.16%
This factor includes specific traits, skills and abilities related to human connectedness, meta-awareness, witnessing awareness (non-attachment) and acceptance of experience, present moment awareness, the connection of humans and nature (environment), mindfulness, and non-reactivity to inner experiences. Witnessing experience is a key factor to the Spiritual CQ: the ability to look at your own body, thoughts and feelings, and your own awareness as a neutral witness, from the outside. This is the experience of an ‘I’, of an observer, of watching one’s self doing things.
An important part of the Spiritual CQ explores post-autonomous ego development features, including serving others, compassion for the self, transpersonal experiences, Ego as object/construct, detecting the limits of words (language as object).

The Spiritual CQ factor was developed by including the participatory understanding of spirituality: the spirituality of persons is developed and revealed primarily in the spirituality of their relations with other persons (regarding spirituality primarily as the fruit of individual meditative attainment leads to the gross anomaly of a ‘spiritual’ person who is an interpersonal oppressor).

Your score on the Spiritual Consciousness scale is in the upper-intermediate values range, meaning that you have good skills that allow you to experience the interconnectedness of people and nature and that you are open to spiritual experiences. You have well-defined ideas about your purpose on Earth, and you find it easy to talk about religion and humankind in general. You have the ability to witness, observe and accept all experiences, positive and negative, and you often find yourself contemplating the complexity of life.
 

EcK

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It appears that this entire thread has mainly consisted of two people fighting over an unspoken trophy for "Most Intelligent Man Here." Perhaps it would have been prudent to first ensure you understood the meanings of the words you are using interchangeably, as clearly they are not synonymous.

[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] - You may get troll points for pointing out that [MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION] misspelled "genius," but you effectively derailed your own thread by means of competitive mindless chatter supported by misinformation.
uh, not we were just having a chat. We weren't fighting, more like, having fun. At least as far as I perceive it but I doubt [MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION] would disagree :wubbie:
(unless he comes in to disagree just to mess with me - which btw would likely to be my own move - but I'm a bad man)

And the award for "Most Intelligent Man Here" goes to a feeling Ni-dom... woman.
of whom do you speak of ? :coffee:

(The above assholery on my part is all in good fun - just feeling saucy tonight. On with the discussion.)
I'm silently judging you.
 

Peter Deadpan

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[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] - Judge away. And I meant fighting in a figurative sense. Your other statement requires no response.
 

EcK

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I have an idea about it being to do with automation vs mental 'stepping back' and apprehending.

I've not had time to read through the topic so I don't know if this has come up yet (I suspect it has) & I'm aware that this will be a big simplification due to just having sat down and not keeping myself up to date with the material: but if unfamiliar information and the receiving of said information arises freshly in the right hemisphere of the brain and over time is then shifted via familiarity to the left hemisphere (in most average lateralised brains; to be unspecific) then it seems that consciousness could be measured by how effectively an individual could move perspective in order to integrate the previously acquired information for fresh understanding.

Not for reintegration & refreshing as in a memory; but a creation of something that, for brevity's sake, can be called new.

I think anyone can do it, to greater or lesser degrees (and it is these degrees that would come under the angle of this topic), but it has to be trained like any other skill. I'm not just talking about empathy but a whole host of shifting positions. The power of transformative insight shouldn't be underestimated.

Being able to catch yourself in the moment and step back, take a breath, and assess is something that sounds easy in principal but hard in practice.

I think that anyone who can do that with greater regularity and ease approaches at least some form of consciousness that we can understand.

That's an interesting approach. links back to intuition for me. (preconscious processing)
However why do you think this is specifically linked with right/left brain interactions.
I believe there are cases of people who lost a whole hemisphere of their brain and lived to tell the tale.

It'd be interesting to see what happens to their general awareness.
I remember reading up on related topics oh.. 15 years ago. Regarding for example cases of damage to the corpus callosum for example and how the awareness would seem to be split between the two brains - each trying to 'justify' the actions of the other hemisphere.

The interesting part is :
1) they still seemed to be able of self reflection as to their actions (though of course the study was not SPECIFICALLY designed to check for general awareness but rather abnormalities in awareness - but those are generally telling as are the limits and exceptions to any system)

2) they would have an 'explanation' as to their action despite the fact that - i think in some cases the two brains would not actually have communicated. They would place an object visible to one eye only for example, and the other brain - without this information - would 'make up a story' as to the reason behind their actions.

It also reminds me of this study about the muscles of the hands starting to get into motion BEFORE people register thinking "hey I'm hungry, I should have that apple" in another study.

It seems to me that alot of what we think of as 'conscious thought' is heavily influenced by unconscious/preconscious processing and that we often just seem to be trying to 'fill in the holes' as to avoid cognitive dissonance rather than really 'make a decision'. It rather seems like our consciousness serves as a 'narrator trying to make sense of a movie playing in front of their eyes' most of the time.
 

PeaceBaby

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[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] - You may get troll points for pointing out that [MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION] misspelled "genius," but you effectively derailed your own thread by means of competitive mindless chatter supported by misinformation.

And the award for "Most Intelligent Man Here" goes to a feeling Ni-dom... woman.

(The above assholery on my part is all in good fun - just feeling saucy tonight. On with the discussion.)

I like your sauciness. Carry on!
 
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Among people who do not have any mental disabilities, probably. Among people in general, yes. I don't know how wed go about testing it with our current technology and knowledge of the human brain but I also don't see a reason to test it. As long as one is conscious enough, that's all that matters, and that's pretty obvious most of the time.
 

Qlip

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The premise reminds me of this, except it'd be a spectrum. Sounds like something good to accuse an indigenous population of.

Philosophical zombie - Wikipedia

A philosophical zombie or p-zombie in the philosophy of mind and perception is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except in that it lacks conscious experience, qualia, or sentience.[1]
 

Numbly Aware

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I don't have much time for research today but mh lets start with the first thing that popped into my mind (weighty words when talking about consciousness I know but I like the expression and most of the brain is not 'conscious' anyway so sue me):

+ quote regarding babies"In fact, it's one of their favorite activities – so much so that the car seat mirror has become a must-have. But in fact it's not until about 18 months that most babies really recognize that it is their own bodies they see in the mirror."

Now I didn't really look into it but I know that the general test we use on animals as to see whether they are conscious is to put a dot on their face for example and see how they react to it. Now I haven't done that specific thing with my son but it seems like there's lots of presupposition going in there.

For example birds tend to 'score well' on these tests relative (alot of species of birds will 'spot the spot' etc.) BUT it's common sense that a BIRD MUST TAKE CARE OF ITS DAMN FEATHERS - otherwise it can't fucking fly and it dies. damn it. (lets not talk about ostriches which are giant monsters). Take a babies hands and try to restrain their function (like tie two fingers or put something very sticky between two fingers and I can assure you the baby will try to get their mobility back. Doesn't mean either is 'conscious' as an insect will do something similar when pinned down. Now I get that it's about recognizing a REFLECTION in the mirror but any set of 'specialist' neural networks in the brain might explain this without needing actual metacognition (ability to self reflect)

In the case of my own son (9 months old now) he's reacting to his own reflection in ways which are consistant with self awareness and has been for a long time. Now I'm sure he's not going to display the type of 'grooming' behavior that are taught later in life and that his inner life is only as complex as his experience and current level of brain development but I doubt that he's 'imagining it's another baby being held by his dad and feeling a kiss on the same cheek at the same time and reacting exactly like him'. That seems like a needlessly complicated explaination when it makes more sense to assume that self awareness arrives much much earlier but as the SELF is developping throughout life you can't expect advanced 'interactions with oneself' in a 3 months old baby who's still learning to use his own damn hands half properly and figuring out basic physics of the universe he / she inhabits / what the big noisy moving warm globs around him are etc.

Dump a grown human being in a 20 dimensional space and it wouldn't be unreasonable to think 20 dimensional beings would assume it not to be 'self aware' as displaying no grasp of how to intelligently interact with its environment.

I mean - thought experiment. Let's say you develop a true AI. and run it on a computer, now you KNOW that this is a self aware AI. BUT it has access to little information, so you link it to a video feed showing the computer it runs on.

Do you expect it to a) even be able to fully figure out how to process the video signal b) have enough contextual knowledge to fully grasp what that 'computer' means.
Now you gradually upgrade it's hardware capability and feed it more and more data then one day it 'shows you proof that it's self aware'.
No- wrong- it gave you proof that it can interpret the video feed / that it was fed enough data to understand if say - you've changed the monitor / which 'computer is him' by recognizing the environment (which is pretty much just pattern recognition). A non conscious software could do that. The fact that it's self aware is independent from ability to correlate and categorize data.

Now I know it's a bit of a leap to just assume that you can have 'self awareness' with little environmental awareness but ahem , just a thought experiment.
As far as makes sense to me babies have pretty much functional brains at birth - there's no reason for them not to have 'self awareness' - it's their richness of knowledgedge about themselves in relation to their environment and the quality of 'self' to be experienced which increases with time, but as to the essential ability to see that what they feel is 'mirrored' (litterally) in a mirror I'd have to assume that they are able to grasp that. But why would they find it 'meaningful' when they don't know the first thing about their relation to their environment or what the fuck is going on? Early on they just know hunger-thirst, and a few 'basic urges' - the rest is just a data feed they haven't yet learned how to make sense of.
Rants like these are reasons I keep things to myself; they'd call me insane. Ffs :laugh: or maybe I'm not insane what if the majority is insane and the few are sane. Idek Maybe it doesn't even have to do with sanity, what if its intelligence? Hmm, then few are truly intelligent and others are not.
I'm astounded how you communicate this whole thread without holding back. Kudos to you, Sir.
 

Yuurei

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Rather interesting thread. I think we as humans experience many different states of consciousness, and so some people may spend more time stuck in the lower forms of it. I think over-working and the doldrums of routine contribute to lower levels of consciousness. However, in contrast to that, I don't think I've experienced the highest states of it since that may require a lot of meditation I haven't had time to experience.

This is actually one reason I long to live far away in the mountains mostly alone. My highest levels of consciousness occur when sitting alone in nature for extended periods of time, and when I am at my best creating art. Those are the times I feel alive.

If you want to explore this topic in a bizarre direction, I'll go back to that question of the multiple levels/types of consciousness each person experiences. We all know the principle of this is true in terms of sleep and wakefulness, but there are different systems inside of us - perhaps more than simply conscious and unconscious. There is one deep brain system that connects to the Psoas muscle in the back. Because it is wired directly into the lower regions of the brain, that system is more instinctual and some people have hypothesized that memories are also stored throughout the body. That Psoas-brainstem system in me still responds to trauma and stress differently than my conscious mind. I can feel it as a different level of consciousness that reacts to stimuli and solves problems differently. I've come to wonder if the individual is actually a collection of different conscious/sub-conscious systems that all coordinate together into one being. What if it isn't just two systems (conscious and unconscious), but several?

I'm sure everyone will think I'm insane but I think that ship hascsailed long ago.

When I am in a good mood, usually alone, no one bitching and arguing about petty things, and expecting to be dragged into thithis is exactly how I feel, I can't distinguish myself from anything else and everything is just cool.
And, even crazier my intuition seems stronger.

Some idiot troll once said something wise " intuition isn't, because it doesn't come from yourself" and that's true. I know because, well, I can tell the difference by my own "gut instinct" and true epiphany. Sometimes an answer that I have no way of nowhere will just come to me from elsewhere. I can't control it but it happens far easier when I am in that space, feeling like just a piece of one system.

I'm not the type believe in mystic stuff but I know what I experience.

So, knowing these things about myself and those petty assholes I have to deal with on a daily basis who are prefectky happy wasting thier entire lives arguing vehemently over shit that just.Doesn't.Matter. I would say that the short answer is YES.
 

Fluffywolf

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You may get troll points for pointing out that Fluffywolf misspelled "genius," but you effectively derailed your own thread by means of competitive mindless chatter supported by misinformation.


Hey now, let's not forget english is not my language. I think I do alright! ;)
 

Cellmold

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That's an interesting approach. links back to intuition for me. (preconscious processing)
However why do you think this is specifically linked with right/left brain interactions.
I believe there are cases of people who lost a whole hemisphere of their brain and lived to tell the tale.

It'd be interesting to see what happens to their general awareness.
I remember reading up on related topics oh.. 15 years ago. Regarding for example cases of damage to the corpus callosum for example and how the awareness would seem to be split between the two brains - each trying to 'justify' the actions of the other hemisphere.

The interesting part is :
1) they still seemed to be able of self reflection as to their actions (though of course the study was not SPECIFICALLY designed to check for general awareness but rather abnormalities in awareness - but those are generally telling as are the limits and exceptions to any system)

2) they would have an 'explanation' as to their action despite the fact that - i think in some cases the two brains would not actually have communicated. They would place an object visible to one eye only for example, and the other brain - without this information - would 'make up a story' as to the reason behind their actions.

It also reminds me of this study about the muscles of the hands starting to get into motion BEFORE people register thinking "hey I'm hungry, I should have that apple" in another study.

It seems to me that alot of what we think of as 'conscious thought' is heavily influenced by unconscious/preconscious processing and that we often just seem to be trying to 'fill in the holes' as to avoid cognitive dissonance rather than really 'make a decision'. It rather seems like our consciousness serves as a 'narrator trying to make sense of a movie playing in front of their eyes' most of the time.


Well I think I've been quite heavily influenced by the book I've been reading lately (still only part way through). I don't agree with everything put forth but the first half has lots of studies and observations about split brain patients & experiments. For example, most people who have had a callosotomy are usually adults and so the brain has had time to form small sub - cortical networks between the hemispheres beyond the corpus callosum; this might explain why some spilt brain patients are able to manage just fine as there are still lesser connections for inter-hemispheric communications. More telling is what happens when people have had strokes of either the right or left hemispheres (or have had them 'deactivated' as part of a study).

One of the examples outlined is a right hemisphere stroke patient who, when asked to raise his left arm proclaims he has done so, the doctor replies that he didn't see it move. The patient asks which arm? And the doctor points towards the patient's left arm. The patient claims "That is not my arm". Doctor asks to whom the arm belongs?

Answer: The man in the next bed.

Constrasted with the left-hemisphere stroke patient/s who (generally speaking) are unable to remember precise words for objects but can clearly gesture and pick up the correct objects when asked, despite having a diminished vocabulary and difficulty with speech and intonation.

Obviously there are individual variations but the general pattern tends to repeat.

On top of this, the studies where people had one hemisphere deactivated revealed that:

"Drawings by psychiatric patients were studied in various states (i) in depression; (ii) after neuroleptic injection; and (iii) during left hemisphere suppression induced by unilateral electroconvulsive seizure (UES). In these states, right hemisphere activation predominates.
The results of the study demonstrate that, under the predominance of right hemisphere activation over the left hemisphere, there is a tendency to reproduce the image of the object and to represent it in near space.
Drawings by psychiatric patients were also investigated in (i) the manic state; (ii) after injection of psychotropic drugs which improved the mood; and (iii) during right hemisphere suppression following right-sided UES. Under these conditions, left hemisphere activation predominates and the drawings loose the illusion of three-dimensional space. A tendency to reproduce the knowledge and the ideas of the object and to represent it in distant space was observed. Thus, both hemispheres may represent space and elaborate perceptive and conceptional models of the world in different ways. It is probable that different types of representation are based on global (right-hemispheric) in comparison with focal (left-hemispheric) attention to space.
- Representation activity of the right and left hemispheres of the brain. - PubMed - NCBI

Here is a picture of one of those drawings showing normal functions, right hemisphere only (RH) & left only (LH):



When I have a bit more time, and if I remember, I might come back with some of the studies and references; it's really interesting.
 
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