Are some humans less conscious than others

[EcK]

It's gold, the last few seconds of the clip especially. When he seems lost in thought, almost piecing it together... But not quite!

yeah I actually skipped through it - there was about 2 seconds of meaningful information in there so I summarized the video in about 10-15 - checking if they were going to say anything of value priceless

 

[PeaceBaby]

[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] - did you finish the test?

The overall CQ score is broken into categories: Physical / Emotional / Cognitive / Sociorelational / Self / Inner Growth / Spiritual -- you may find this accounts for some of your inner disparity on the questions as well. I scored highest in Emotional / Sociorelational / Inner Growth but lower in Self and interestingly Spiritual. Perhaps you will find some pattern in your results that will illustrate that the test is indeed able to pick up your Cognitive CQ and show Emotional CQ as a place to focus attention?

Not sure. Want to know more about how you scored. I can see how emotions weight very heavy in this test and that NTPs will resist or actively reject using emotional data as a measure of self-awareness.

- - - Updated - - -

There's a test?
*barely conscious*

Yes, from the link. Is long. Make a cup of tea first.

 

[EcK]

[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] - did you finish the test?

The overall CQ score is broken into categories: Physical / Emotional / Cognitive / Sociorelational / Self / Inner Growth / Spiritual -- you may find this accounts for some of your inner disparity on the questions as well. I scored highest in Emotional / Sociorelational / Inner Growth but lower in Self and interestingly Spiritual. Perhaps you will find some pattern in your results that will illustrate that the test is indeed able to pick up your Cognitive CQ and show Emotional CQ as a place to focus attention?

Not sure. Want to know more about how you scored. I can see how emotions weight very heavy in this test and that NTPs will resist or actively reject using emotional data as a measure of self-awareness.

Well I am AWARE of emotions it's just that
a) I don't think of them as very useful to attain truth / understanding of things around me
b) emotions are a mammalian trait, but they are not - to me - as interesting as 'reason' in general (whether using emotional or logical thinking) which is after all the basis of our civilization. This test seemed to be (at least the questions I saw) about emotional awareness rather than emotional reasoning which I find to be more valuable - though not necessarily my particular cup of tea.
b) of course if you don't practice something you'll be less proficient at it.

But my issue is not really with that, it's really the language which always seemed to beg the question "how do you feel, how do you REALLY feel" and I keep saying 'FINE, LEAVE ME ALONE YOU LUNATIC "

I haven't finished it no, barely made it to the second page.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Well I am AWARE of emotions it's just that
a) I don't think of them as very useful to attain truth / understanding of things around me
b) of course if you don't practice something you'll be less proficient at it.

But my issue is not really with that, it's really the language which always seemed to beg the question "how do you feel, how do you REALLY feel" and I keep saying 'FINE, LEAVE ME ALONE YOU LUNATIC "

I haven't finished it no, barely made it to the second page.

As a lure to entice you to finish, there are thinking questions on the second and third pages ...

 

[EcK]

As a lure to entice you to finish, there are thinking questions on the second and third pages ...

yeah I assumed that but still quit, didn't seem worth the torture. Past the 30 question mark I sort of gave up on my hopes that the test maker had enough self-awareness to create interesting 'logical awareness' questions.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Well I am AWARE of emotions it's just that
a) I don't think of them as very useful to attain truth / understanding of things around me
b) of course if you don't practice something you'll be less proficient at it.

But my issue is not really with that, it's really the language which always seemed to beg the question "how do you feel, how do you REALLY feel" and I keep saying 'FINE, LEAVE ME ALONE YOU LUNATIC "

I haven't finished it no, barely made it to the second page.

Oh I quite dislike the "how do you really feel?" question. I like to answer them this:

I feel the weight of the world pulling down on me. For ever and ever and ever, unrelentingly!

And then they go "Aww?!"

And I ask them "Don't you feel the same?"

And if they go "No." I can make fun of them.

(Doesn't work on astronauts)

 

[PeaceBaby]

yeah I assumed that but still quit, didn't seem worth the torture. Past the 30 question mark I sort of gave up on my hopes that the test maker had enough self-awareness to create interesting 'logical awareness' questions.

And yet you'll perhaps more readily assume an IQ test maker has enough intelligence to measure all intelligence ... tsk tsk

As my Mom would say, you can't complain about something if you don't try it.

 

[EcK]

Oh I quite dislike the "how do you really feel?" question. I like to answer them this:

I feel the weight of the world pulling down on me. For ever and ever and ever, unrelentingly!

And then they go "Aww?!"

And I ask them "Don't you feel the same?"

And if they go "No." I can make fun of them.

yeah I kind of do the same at times.
But generally I just go with "fine" or the occasional "tired", "hungry", or show them my hand and touch something and if they actually engage rather than go with it and mention how hunger is a sensation and not an emotion I'll point out that they're just assuming I used the same definition of feel etc. But as apparently my 'neutral face' is a "I am not impressed" death stare (that or I seem endlessly amused by something) these types of follow up questions have vanned with the years

 

[EcK]

And yet you'll perhaps more readily assume an IQ test maker has enough intelligence to measure all intelligence ... tsk tsk

As my Mom would say, you can't complain about something if you don't try it.

No, what I trust about IQ tests is their correlation with the plethora of other variables, its predictive strength and the simple fact that people generally have an intuitive grasp of what intelligence is and tend to attribute traits linked to intelligence to individuals with high iq. Virtually all of the progress of our civilization to this day is likely to come from high / above average iq individuals while low iq individuals tend to display more violent / tribal traits associated with primitive societies. (yes, the noble savage is a lie)

It's the populace at large which attributes a 'value' to IQ - I just use it.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I'm just commenting so I remember to come back and read through later. Fascinating concept.

 

[Fluffywolf]

And yet you'll perhaps more readily assume an IQ test maker has enough intelligence to measure all intelligence ... tsk tsk

As my Mom would say, you can't complain about something if you don't try it.

Well to be fair, IQ tests are bullshit as well. I think there should be some posts around of me debunking the practicality and usefulness of IQ testing.

Here's an anecdote I thought of once. Within the realm of IQ, there are only three types of people. Those that stop at a wall, those that break the wall and those that go around the wall.

Those that stop at the wall, don't care enough.
Those that break the wall care too much.
Those that go around the wall have forgotten what it means to care.

People like to measure things, but genious like me is simply immeasurable.

 

[EcK]

Well to be fair, IQ tests are bullshit as well. I think there should be some posts around of me debunking the practicality and usefulness of IQ testing.

Here's an anecdote I thought of once. Within the realm of IQ, there are only three types of people. Those that stop at a wall, those that break the wall and those that go around the wall.

Those that stop at the wall, don't care enough.
Those that break the wall care too much.
Those that go around the wall have forgotten what it means to care.

I disagree, to say that something is not PERFECT is not the same thing as saying it's not useful, IQ tests certainly are useful. Which is what a test is for.
Try to put people with 90 iq into a physics program and see what happens. In general you'll find much more 'talents per capita' in about any intellectual field as IQ goes up.

People like to measure things, but genious like me is simply immeasurable.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I disagree, to say that something is not PERFECT is not the same thing as saying it's not useful, IQ tests certainly are useful. Which is what a test is for.

I agree with your statement. I just think IQ has very little to do with intelligence. I firmly believe anyone is perfectly capable of mastering an IQ test, if they have the drive and will to do so. This diminishes the practical value of an IQ score.

If someone scores high, it does not neccesarily mean they are particularly intelligent. And if someone scores low, it does not mean they lack intelligence per se. There are too many potential variables involved to concretely say who is more intelligent.

Instead of intelligence quotient, it should be called intuitive quotient. There are many ways to arrive at a destination. To do so intuitively is generally considered superior, yes. It's a quick proccess after all. But is it more intelligent? I don't think so.

 

[PeaceBaby]

No, what I trust about IQ tests is their correlation with the plethora of other variables, its predictive strength and the simple fact that people generally have an intuitive grasp of what intelligence is and tend to attribute traits linked to intelligence to individuals with high iq. Virtually all of the progress of our civilization to this day is likely to come from high / above average iq individuals while low iq individuals tend to display more violent / tribal traits associated with primitive societies. (yes, the noble savage is a lie)

It's the populace at large which attributes a 'value' to IQ - I just use it.

I guess the CQ people are thinking like you as well:

Consciousness Quotient of university students in relation to the academic achievement

Consciousness Quotient – a predictor for pro-environmental behaviors

Yoga asanas and meditation for 20 weeks can increase your Consciousness Quotient

People like to measure things, but genious like me is simply immeasurable.

The test broke when you took it I know.

 

[EcK]

I agree with your statement. I just think IQ has very little to do with intelligence. I firmly believe anyone is perfectly capable of mastering an IQ test, if they have the drive and will to do so. This diminishes the practical value of an IQ score.

If someone scores high, it does not neccesarily mean they are particularly intelligent. And if someone scores low, it does not mean they lack intelligence per se. There are too many potential variables involved to concretely say who is more intelligent.

Instead of intelligence quotient, it should be called intuitive quotient. There are many ways to arrive at a destination. To do so intuitively is generally considered superior, yes. It's a quick proccess after all. But is it more intelligent? I don't think so.

Yes but no.
IQ is correlated with things like synapse myelination and hence it follows that a better insulating myelin sheet would mean - due to how neurons work (with minimal activation levels to be stimulated and hence stimulate the next neuron etc.) the ability to create larger neural activation patterns within the brain.

In short and to simplify : the ability to create more complex ideas

Making kind of a leap here but the fact that higher iq invidividuals are often more 'intuitive' is simply due to the fact that they can handle more complex ideas and hence don't require as much 'conscious control / procedures' to reach an equally 'difficult' conclusion as someone with a lower iq....

(and to continue in the tradition you've just set up a few posts ago: )
Kind of what is happening here

 

[Fluffywolf]

The test broke when you took it I know.

Just like everything else I touch.

 

[EcK]

[MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION]

intuition is a misnomer anyway, everyone is 'intuitive' - most of everything we do is intuitive (ie: sub/pre-conscious level processing) we just call some people 'intuitive' because they make 'bigger intuitive leaps'.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Yes but no.
IQ is correlated with things like myelination and hence it follows that a better insulating myelin sheet would mean - due to how neurons work (with minimal activation levels to be stimulated and hence stimulate the next neuron etc.) the ability to create larger neural activation patterns within the brain.

In short and to simplify : the ability to create more complex ideas.

Making kind of a leap here but the fact that higher iq invidividuals are often more 'intuitive' is simply due to the fact that they can handle more complex ideas and hence don't require as much 'conscious control / procedures' to reach an equally 'difficult' question as someone with a lower iq.

Well yes, but no. *insert evil grin*

I simply can not allow myself to roll over and accept IQ as the true test of intelligence people make it out to be. I remain both skeptical and resilient to that idea.

Consider this, if there truely is a road on which to travel to high intelligence, it must start at critical thinking. Critical thinking and persistance. Don't take things for granted.

And I am of belief that a high IQ, whilest it may well be a result of this ability, does not empyrically prove the existance of critical thinking within the subject. IE. You can have an IQ of 140 and still be as dumb as a mule. (Creationist academics come to mind)

So I'm not actually disagreeing outright with anything you say really, you're essentially correct and I concede that fact. But IQ never will be all and end all when it comes to intelligence.

[MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION]

intuition is a misnomer anyway, everyone is 'intuitive' - most of everything we do is intuitive (ie: sub/pre-conscious level processing) we just call some people 'intuitive' because they make 'bigger intuitive leaps'.

We're going a bit too much into semantics there. Everyone has intelligence as well. We're talking about the strengths of something in people. Not the existance or lack thereof. I did not mean intuitive in the MBTI sense.

 

[PeaceBaby]

[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION]: do the test already instead of complaining and derailing.

 

[Fluffywolf]

[MENTION=5643]EcK[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION]: do the test already instead of complaining and derailing.

Those that stop at the wall, don't care enough.
Those that break the wall care too much.
Those that go around the wall have forgotten what it means to care.

*goes around the wall*