I know some of these have been answered already, but it's good to have multiple perspectives...
To Fidelia and MDP2525: I'm really sorry... both of your situations suck. I know you're the ones who are supposed to be asking the questions, but do you think that ALL ESTJs are inherently selfish? Or have you both just had bad times with unhealthy ESTJs?
Very interesting. This sort of leads me to another question: how do you handle people's strong feelings? For a more complex specific example: How would you react if somebody wronged you, making you angry, then you realized the person that wronged you was
much more angry/disappointed/frustrated with themselves than you could have ever been at them? I had a bit of a mental breakdown yesterday. Not sure how she perceived it...
A response to the general question:
I tend to react in bewilderment... If they're a friend, it's something like: "Jeez, this is serious business. They aren't doing so well! I know I need to do something, but I don't know what it is!" If someone I know is crying, or feeling down, I might offer to do something with them to distract them, e.g. come and watch a funny movie. Or I might give them a hug, or just sit next to them for a while, not saying anything. But I don't have many good tactical options, so if nothing I know how to do to comfort someone actually HELPS, I'll resort to, say, hugging them, and then leaving in embarrassment. But that's if I actually CARE. If they AREN'T my friend, I'll just go "Huh, that was intense. I wonder what that was all about..." and then leave.
A response to the specific question:
I guess I would pity them, and then go talk to them about it. Either that, or I'd feel awkward, and not talk to them, waiting for THEM to take the initiative. That is, AFTER I forgave them for the wrongdoing. Depending on how upset I got about it, it might take me a while to get to the pitying stage.
Un-asked-for advice: I'd apologize, and tell her what you just told me/the other ESTJs about it, and then see what happens. Better to have closure, you know?
I've noticed two kinds of ESTJ the sort of fartherly or motherly protective kind who look out for people and actually help the less detail orientated and realize intuition has a different use and powerful in other situations and then there's the ones who seem hell bent on changing other people to their "standard"
Now obviously EJCC is the first one
but I still none the less wonder if they are secretly frustrated and filled with hate?!
Aw
Thanks! I will say, though, that sometimes I wish that everyone agreed with me, and did things the way I do... but that's not very realistic, is it? Ya gotta be pragmatic.
Do you feel you have an intolerance of other types (especially those mentioned above) and how does this manifest itself with you?
I guess I'm mostly curious about this because intolerance of other personalities is quite foreign to me, when I don't like someone its generally BECAUSE they have some kind of intolerance towards me.
I get frustrated when people do things that I don't understand, or can't relate to. I have this fixed idea in my mind of what "normal", or "common sense", is, and when people don't do things like that, I just don't understand! And naturally, since I think of my way as "common sense" (I'm sorry to say), I can feel like the ways of Perceivers is the "wrong way". (I mention them specifically because, even though I'm not in the least bit intolerant of iNtuitors, I can't figure out Perceivers to save my life.) If I could RELATE to you guys, I wouldn't think like that. Perhaps... if spontaneity and impulse ruled the day, I would feel better about it. But I live in a culture that values J - being on time, planning everything out, etc. If I lived somewhere like, say, Tajikistan, where no one is really expected to be "on time", then I would be totally fine with it. You see what I mean?
Question about the ESTJ shadow:
When you make an ESTJ angry (by effectively rendering her belief as invalid), why does she feel the need to ignore me? Is this the INFP shadow coming out?
For me, it's like self-defense. When people question my beliefs, I take it VERY personally. It's like my ways are being attacked, and my instinct is to guard them. So, when I fight back, I'm really saying "You can't do this! You can't defeat me! There's fight in me yet! It's only a flesh wound! I'll bite your legs off! Come and get me, you bastard!"
... this is why, to answer your other question, I don't always get along with ENTPs. They cause that reaction in me all the time. (That's also why I was never on the debate team in high school or college... debates make me angry and irrational, neither of which is fun for me.)
I just discovered I can jump to any page! in a thread by clicking the down arrow to the right of the paging numbers.
I'll post detailed instructions later!!
