[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[ChocolateMoose123]

Why is her 'friend' answering?? If any of my friends did that....:steam: Something is fishy here. Was his reply "friendly" or possessive?
'

 

[EJCC]

Aww... We aren't ALL like that!

Honestly, I have NO idea what that's all about. I wish I could help, but I just can't wrap my head around it! I mean, I had thought that ESTJs were into self-sufficiency, and yet this one you're talking about is getting a guy to do all her work for her. How hard is it to answer a text? I feel your pain.

Do you have any more details that could be helpful?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

It's neither friendly nor possessive; it's just a plain answer. Something like: "She says she doesn't know."

If I had the low conscience to do it, I'd text him back with: "Did I text you? No? Then don't fucking reply to me."

Beh, forget it. I'll try and find an ENFP that doesn't try to bullshit me.

Do you know or have you met this person before? Do you know anything about said guy? I wouldn't jump to conclusions. However, from the tone of your last post it seems that this was the last straw for you...what are some other examples of her bullshit?

The ESTJ I have contact with always seems to need to have these orbiting but adoring people around him. Maybe to boost his ego? I have no clue. It's something I have noticed and called his attention to. He has never commented on it. (Of course).

 

[Fidelia]

Hey that's something I've seen too!

 

[fill]

Well that was random. She just popped in my room and we started making plans for tonight.

Uh... Haha.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Well, I hope things work out. Although, your ESTJ situation sounds a lot like mine. I'm not saying they don't have awesome points but their weaknesses are just sooo inadvertently hurtful. Be careful with this one. They always seem to know when you're pulling away...then they do just enough to reel you back in...and the cycle continues. I don't know.

If you are a logical thinker, then they can snow you with Te...make sure you aren't just using a logical premise to make decisions concerning ESTJ because that's what they rely on. Don't get me wrong...I love ESTJ's and I love the one I have close contact with but unless they're ready to deal with themselves and loved ones in their life in a mature way...it's back and forth

 

[fill]

Things are working out great, actually. (I deleted some posts; I'm not proud of them) And when I thought about it, I realized that she wasn't stable at the time of my complaints, and that I couldn't judge her. The friend texting back thing was actually because she didn't have any left on her plan, but I still did feel a bit hurt that her friend, not I, was the one who got to have her feelings poured out to in the situation (I'm a counselor, dammit! Come to me for advice!). But I'm not now. Because that guy's just a friend.

...And I was never just a friend to her. I can see why she would feel embarrassed talking about a break up with a guy she likes.

So, EJCC, I'm wondering if your actions in the situation would be similar?

 

[EJCC]

If I didn't have any minutes left on my plan, and I had to text somebody, then yeah, I would probably either ask someone to text them for me, or I would borrow their phone and say "Hi, this is EJCC on ___'s phone..." or whatever.

And about her "pouring out her feelings"... how do you know she poured them out at all? Did the friend tell you that she did? Because if it were me, I'm not sure if I would talk about it at all. To anyone. Except maybe one or two people (including my mom).

And MDP2525...
....

 

[fill]

And about her "pouring out her feelings"... how do you know she poured them out at all?

That's a really good point. I actually don't know that at all, and who knows what happened- at this point I don't think it matters.

Thanks for the help!

 

[EJCC]

No problem!

 

[runvardh]

Well, I hope things work out. Although, your ESTJ situation sounds a lot like mine. I'm not saying they don't have awesome points but their weaknesses are just sooo inadvertently hurtful. Be careful with this one. They always seem to know when you're pulling away...then they do just enough to reel you back in...and the cycle continues. I don't know.

If you are a logical thinker, then they can snow you with Te...make sure you aren't just using a logical premise to make decisions concerning ESTJ because that's what they rely on. Don't get me wrong...I love ESTJ's and I love the one I have close contact with but unless they're ready to deal with themselves and loved ones in their life in a mature way...it's back and forth

Ah, the joys of being irrational. Three cycles and I'd walk, but I've dealt with worse from closer. I set up expectations, and I stubbornly expect them

 

[Fidelia]

Well, I hope things work out. Although, your ESTJ situation sounds a lot like mine. I'm not saying they don't have awesome points but their weaknesses are just sooo inadvertently hurtful. Be careful with this one. They always seem to know when you're pulling away...then they do just enough to reel you back in...and the cycle continues. I don't know.
If you are a logical thinker, then they can snow you with Te...make sure you aren't just using a logical premise to make decisions concerning ESTJ because that's what they rely on. Don't get me wrong...I love ESTJ's and I love the one I have close contact with but unless they're ready to deal with themselves and loved ones in their life in a mature way...it's back and forth

Wow! Is that ever true! That describes about the last three years!

 

[fill]

Do ESTJs ever have problems with... stealing?

And how do you look so innocent then suddenly reveal something way out of line you've done in your past?

 

[Max]

Do ESTJs ever have problems with... stealing?

Not that I'm aware of, but I don't speak for all ESTJs. I'm never tempted to do so myself.

And how do you look so innocent then suddenly reveal something way out of line you've done in your past?

Example, please.

 

[EJCC]

^ I second absolutely everything that Max said. Every word.

 

[fill]

Haha, sorry guys.

I've had encounters with an two ESTJs, and the one I'm seeing now stole something, and the other also stole things too. I suppose it's coincidence (Intuition doesn't like to admit it). Also, just a tip: if you ever have any interest in an INFJ, don't lie/steal. You'll be come dead to us temporarily.

The other examples are rather private, but it pretty much ended up in me thinking they were very innocent people (they still are to some extent) until they told me something I would have never guessed they would have done. Then, again, I suppose it could be coincidence.

I should probably stop posting in this thread.

 

[EJCC]

I've had encounters with an two ESTJs, and the one I'm seeing now stole something, and the other also stole things too. I suppose it's coincidence (Intuition doesn't like to admit it). Also, just a tip: if you ever have any interest in an INFJ, don't lie/steal. You'll be come dead to us temporarily.

It probably is coincidence. And in response to your tip, I could say literally exactly the same thing about ESTJs. If you steal from me, you've betrayed my trust, and if I don't trust you, you really aren't my friend.

The other examples are rather private, but it pretty much ended up in me thinking they were very innocent people (they still are to some extent) until they told me something I would have never guessed they would have done. Then, again, I suppose it could be coincidence.

ESTJs have a lot more to them than meets the eye. I'm not sure what it is about us. For example, I'm pretty well dressed, i.e. there isn't much difference between my hanging-out-with-friends attire and my going-out-to-impress attire, and because of that (and the way I talk, I suppose), people are always surprised to learn that I'm a fan of Nine Inch Nails and Tool. People stereotype us, and think we're very one-dimensional, but I guess that's because we don't say everything that goes on in our heads. I dunno... just an idea.

I should probably stop posting in this thread.

Nah, feel free! This thread is here for those who have ESTJ questions that need answering, and you've had quite a few questions that need answering, so that's cool. (Also, to put things in perspective a little bit, check out how many times fidelia has posted here. )

 

[Fidelia]

Did you mention me, ma'am? Come to think of it, I have questions again.

1) I have received three emails now from my ex ESTJ since we moved to opposite sides of the country. The first was friendly in a restrained way, the next was polite, the next asked me to please keep in touch even though he knew I was probably busy (that one after ignoring my birthday just before). This doesn't seem ESTJish to me to carry on a penpalship. My possible conclusions are:

He has mixed feelings that still aren't completely resolved.

He's in a new place and hasn't built a network of people yet.

He feels a little guilty and embarrassed about how he finished things up not only with me but in general in the community where we both lived.

Do any of these sound plausible?

2) What prevents you people from sharing your thoughts, what you have been like in the past, etc? For example, I was surprised to hear him say at one time he had been very much a procrastinator when everything he had said for a long time before would have indicated that he was always a stickler for details. Another time he indicated that he thought one of my friends whom he had never met was flaky because she was not choosing to live with her boyfriend (for religious reasons) and they both had separate places near each other in a very expensive city. When I suggested that he wasn't qualified to comment, he explained that it was my fault for allowing him to know those details. He explained he had a number of friends from the past that he still is friends with but whom I would never meet because he was sure that I would not be impressed with their lifestyles.

I can't imagine that it is about being afraid of those close to you thinking worse of you (that would more likely be my motivation). Maybe it's control over what information gets out so that you can shape how you are perceived? Or not appearing vulnerable/incompetent, even in the past?

I think that you're absolutely right that people tend to stereotype you guys as very straight and predictable, and yet you often have some unconventional interest or trait that pops up and surprises people. Do you think it is more a function of people pigeon-holing you, or just what you choose to share with certain people or?

 

[EJCC]

Did you mention me, ma'am? Come to think of it, I have questions again.

Yay! Back to our old routine You ask such great questions!

1) I have received three emails now from my ex ESTJ since we moved to opposite sides of the country. The first was friendly in a restrained way, the next was polite, the next asked me to please keep in touch even though he knew I was probably busy (that one after ignoring my birthday just before). This doesn't seem ESTJish to me to carry on a penpalship.

Agreed on that last sentence. I'm HORRIBLE with long distance relationships of any kind. Not sure why that is...

My possible conclusions are:

He has mixed feelings that still aren't completely resolved.

Very possible.

He's in a new place and hasn't built a network of people yet.

I'd add to the end of that "...and because of that, he's feeling lonely." And with that, yes. Definitely a possibility.

He feels a little guilty and embarrassed about how he finished things up not only with me but in general in the community where we both lived.

Not sure about that one. I find (and this might be just me) that guilt is more of a motivator to stay away. I've had relationships where I felt very guilty about how they ended, and I just avoided them, to keep it out of my mind. Not that that's healthy, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but that's just how I am.

2) What prevents you people from sharing your thoughts, what you have been like in the past, etc? For example, I was surprised to hear him say at one time he had been very much a procrastinator when everything he had said for a long time before would have indicated that he was always a stickler for details. Another time he indicated that he thought one of my friends whom he had never met was flaky because she was not choosing to live with her boyfriend (for religious reasons) and they both had separate places near each other in a very expensive city. When I suggested that he wasn't qualified to comment, he explained that it was my fault for allowing him to know those details. He explained he had a number of friends from the past that he still is friends with but whom I would never meet because he was sure that I would not be impressed with their lifestyles.

I can't imagine that it is about being afraid of those close to you thinking worse of you (that would more likely be my motivation). Maybe it's control over what information gets out so that you can shape how you are perceived?

If he's like me, then there's no way that's possible. I am not that calculating or manipulative. If anything, I have too little awareness of how I'm perceived by others - I want to be liked, but at the same time, I tend to blurt things out sometimes, and regret it later. Yeah, I think it's an unconscious thing... like an instinct?

Or not appearing vulnerable/incompetent, even in the past?

This might be part of it. A lot of the things that I keep from people, I keep from them because they're embarrassing. But in the case of the examples you listed... well, I dunno about other ESTJs, but I'm terrible at small talk. I'm best at telling personal information about myself to other people when it's in context. So, I figure he told you because it made more sense to say it then, than to say it completely randomly at some other moment. (In both his case and mine, it might be an unconscious defense mechanism - letting out the personal information in passing, in the hopes that nothing will come of it and it will be ignored/not responded to. Like disguising those personal facts as funny stories, like we talked about earlier somewhere? Hoping that the listener won't really absorb the information.)

I think that you're absolutely right that people tend to stereotype you guys as very straight and predictable, and yet you often have some unconventional interest or trait that pops up and surprises people. Do you think it is more a function of people pigeon-holing you, or just what you choose to share with certain people or?

No one is straight and predictable - that's the first thing. And to answer your last sentence: all of the above?
Now for an attempted explanation: we definitely take pride in our appearance (I've never met an ESTJ that didn't constantly make some effort to look "nice" at the very least), and we subconsciously try to charm people when we first meet them (which I may have talked about earlier in the thread?), so when our quirks finally show themselves, it catches people by surprise. They think that, since we have a pretty consistent image a lot of the time (with that image being VERY DIFFERENT depending on the ESTJ), that we're always like that image. And how wrong they are!

 

[Timeless]

My best friend (over 12 years) is an ESTJ.

I just have one question for y'all.

Do you frequently burst out yelling and/or screaming? either seriously or humorously? and either publicly or privately?