Help figuring out your type?

[Xander]

INTJs are more methodical but this does not make them less open-minded. We associate open-mindedness with intuition, and their intuition is stronger than ours. Ni is also stronger than Ne because its introverted. Like Ti is stronger than Te.

You wont see their Ni blossom for a while... just like INFJs wont share their vision with you untill they are really comfortable... for the time being the INTJ will just show you the Te... you wont see how flexible and open-minded they are untill a while after...they are not comfortable sharing their Ni with you because the Ni is very esoteric and is oftenly out of tune with the external world. They'd be embarrassed to share most of their visions and will not untill they are really comfortable in the discourse, untill then they will just have to fall back on the Te which is significalty less flexible than the INTPs secondary Ne.

Your just going to have to trust me that I'm not kept out. Me and this guy have known each other for quite a few years now and considering he'll discuss home life stuff with me (tentatively as it may be, we're still two young(ish) males after all and machismo must be upheld) I think I'm one of the closer ones to him. He even asked me for help on occasion!!! Help indeed!! Mind you when he does phone for help I do get the impression of a very pained expression on the other end of the line

Anyhow basically the argument, one of many "discussions" (last wekk we covered existentialism for some bizarre reason), was that he'd analysed the system and had pointed to the flaw. His analysis was correct but as I pointed out to him the facet of what he'd identified as the error was wrong. I merely pointed to the inconsistency and once he understood what I mean't he adopted it into his thinking, so yeah they aren't stick in the muds. However it was the process not the outcome. He repeated the same line, no new identification to try and elulde criticism/ show the other facets, just the same lines over and over. That's quite J.

To underline the point, try persuading an ENTJ that one of their personal choices is wrong and see how far you get. If they picked a car out and are knowledgable about cars, try telling them they got the wrong one. You'll fail. Mainly because they didn't get the wrong one for them. That's stability of thought.

Hmm kinda makes sense now why my sister always got more and more stubborn the more you threatened/ punished her. Oh for having these insights like twenty or more years ago

Is it possible that INTPs are less flexible than INTJs when it comes to taking action, but more ideologically flexible? INTJs seem to like to hold on to their beliefs/thoughts/opinions even in the face of all the evidence to the contrary, while INTPs seem more willing to flex with all those if the evidence is convincing, but not particularly flexible in their habits (or maybe that's just my INTP). INTJs are willing to change their habits if they are convinced that doing so is more effective/expedient than the way they have been doing things.

Errm inflexible in habits? You mean doesn't like the comfort zone to be messed with or something else? I would have thought that both would be fairly pissy should you throw their favourite chair out or something but I'd guess that neither would be particulaly perturbed were you to suggest that they peel with the knife cutting away from their rather vunerable belly.

well as an enfp I have found and learned that you always want to do what others think you should do, you have trouble thinking for yourself and you put everyones needs ahead of your own.... That is so me. So when I test as an S/J it's b/c I am being or doing what others want or expect of me rather than doing what others think of me. I could learn a lot from my 4yr old who is who he is and he doesn't give a shit what others think.

Oh that kinda takes me back.
Dom "I'm not sure I am an ENFP!" ... "I object to being boxed"
Me.. relays quotes to father for further analysis.
Father "That's exactly what I'd expect an ENFP to say"
Me relays back to Dom with an evil grin as he shoots into orbit

Targo, You read ENFP to me. Strongly ENFP.
Go watch Ice Age and see how many people see Scrat as a good reflection fo you

 

[targobelle]

Well, also consider that you may not be that strongly P... and never forget that both sides offer advantages. From what I've read from you, I think I can say that you are generally more F dominant... And just guessing from the quirks you listed, you are probably more P/J moderate. Obviously just speculation! I would also suspect that you are more P than J - but having a kid and managing households tends to force one to be more J, and the driving expectation to be that J can mold your perceptions too.

(The need for acceptance comes from the FJ measurements, however... so if the F is strong, you may not need the J to feel the need to be accepted.)

Interesting.... THANKS!

My husband tested ENTP, and he's much more secure in himself... neither one of us wants to be the 'J' but well someone must default there

FJ Measurements? Could you explain that a little more for me?

 

[targobelle]

Oh that kinda takes me back.
Dom "I'm not sure I am an ENFP!" ... "I object to being boxed"
Me.. relays quotes to father for further analysis.
Father "That's exactly what I'd expect an ENFP to say"
Me relays back to Dom with an evil grin as he shoots into orbit

Targo, You read ENFP to me. Strongly ENFP.
Go watch Ice Age and see how many people see Scrat as a good reflection fo you

Um I have kids.... I have seen it... I am in hysterical giggles at the moment THANKS!

I know I am enfp thanks for the vote of confidence....

Where are my commrads? Shum? Dom? ?????

 

[Xander]

Where are my commrads? Shum? Dom? ?????

There was a rumour of a really nice acorn in alaska. They'll be back in a few days. I'm sending their supplies after them as they left them by the door

 

[targobelle]

There was a rumour of a really nice acorn in alaska. They'll be back in a few days. I'm sending their supplies after them as they left them by the door

well since Alaska could be considered as being close to me then they should swing down....

Of course the supplies were left by the door, and the kitchen table and the top of the stairs and there was even some left in the car when they got to the airport......


Silly enough since I have started accepting that I really am an enfp I have been way less stressed BUT I seem to be forgetting and misplacing more items than usual..... Also being married to an entp who also seems to be equally forgetful I have decided that he needs to learn how to step up to the plate. Life has been rather chaotic in our house. *giggles*

I'm pretty sure my youngest is a J....... this is gonna get interesting soon!

 

[ptgatsby]

Interesting.... THANKS!

My husband tested ENTP, and he's much more secure in himself... neither one of us wants to be the 'J' but well someone must default there

FJ Measurements? Could you explain that a little more for me?

Sure, be happy to (As an aside, this indicates F qualities - you'll note that almost none of the Ts will directly ask someone to explain something, just posing the question and expecting - or not - an answer)

Well, there is this tendency in MBTI to assume that strength is simple - you are either T/F, and you are either J/P... and as a result, you are Fi/Fe/Te/Ti... but the reality is that there are measurements of strength to each trait.

For example, if you test strongly F (which I believe you do, you project it quite strongly) but only slightly P, you still end up being ENFP... so that makes you Ne-Fi dominant. But the reality is that you may be a much stronger F than N, which the type doesn't always reflect. Likewise, the Fi traits that the description has may be half very accurate (F) but otherwise not as accurate (P).

Why is this significant? There is a high risk that in taking the test more than once, you answered according to who you are (strong F, maybe others), but upon getting the answers (weak P), you decided you would rather 'not care' (for example), then patterned your responses towards being a strong P than would be otherwise true. It's very hard to avoid this... we build on own ego and self image...

The reason I believe this is possible is because... well... I read your posts! A lot of traits indicate a weaker P-J divide (which, FWIW, is healthy...). The real risk is viewing your P-J as the culprit, when it is more likely to be the more dominant F (which, also, FWIW, is quite a bit better than being a dominant T!). Knowing one disadvantage of who you are allows you cope with it - pushing type traits isn't nearly as helpful.

 

[targobelle]

THANKS!

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Going with OP here.... I have looked around at various tests and ideologies and I am pretty comfortable with being an enfp. I have gotten and enfj and an esfp, but honestly I think it has something to do with my mood. I do find that the more comfortable I get with myself and the more consistent I get with answering honestly the closer I come to scoring as an enfp......

Why would you confuse yourself with an ENFJ? Ne-Fi can put on the image of an Fe. Much like for an INFJ, NI/Fe can put on an image of an Fi.

Why would you think you're an ESFP. Like take meshou for example who says that her Ti ranks high, even though I think she is an INFP. I, an INTP, have my Fi rank also high, just as high as the Ne. Thats an illusion though, its just our primary introverted judgment functions acting out and Ti projects an Fi image and for the INFP vice versa. Your Ne projects the Se image.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

How long do you think this should take? I started a company with one that I've known over a decade... and I've been dating one just over three years. I believe you are projecting theory onto reality, not developing theory from what you perceive.

I suggest you take a look at the breakdown from the Step II MBTI handbook and evaluate your stance on this. The concept of dominant functions are a blend of three traits, of which two are the same for INTxs. The determining factor is the J/P divide, in which 'flexible' is an active keyword for P. The only other trait, in which you can narrowly define flexible as being 'open', is in the N/S divide. Both INTxs are intuitives, except one is actively inflexible (this is what determines their Ni trait, rather than the Ne observer).

The belief that Ni-Te is "open" while Ti-Ne is "closed", relative to each other, is not borne out by theory or experience. Ni is not the same as Ne and traits from one cannot be claimed by the other.

(I'll also emphasize that the critical nature of T can also influence subjective views on flexibility, as strong Ts will appear more... acidic... in their expression of their views.)

I doubt the INTJ will be showing you their Ni much unless you get to know them intimately.

Not saying Ni-Te is open and Ti-Ne is closed. Just that Ni-Te is more open. N=Open-Mindendedness. Ni is more so because of Introversion (Introverted functions are stronger).

 

[disregard]

so i'm a Ni-Te

how many two-letter descriptions does one have?

 

[nottaprettygal]

So, SW. . . I'm coming to you because you're an expert.

What would it mean if I test INTJ and identify more with the INTJ profile, but my Ti and Ni are almost equal in strength (with my Te ranking quite a bit lower)?

I'm having an identity crisis!

 

[Haight]

What would it mean if I test INTJ and identify more with the INTJ profile, but my Ti and Ni are almost equal in strength (with my Te ranking quite a bit lower)?

Hmmm . . . that sounds familiar.

 

[Totenkindly]

So, SW. . . I'm coming to you because you're an expert. What would it mean if I test INTJ and identify more with the INTJ profile, but my Ti and Ni are almost equal in strength (with my Te ranking quite a bit lower)?

I think you are broken and need to be refurbished.

 

[nottaprettygal]

Hmmm . . . that sounds familiar.

J!!!

Almost all of my introverted functions are used more than my extroverted ones. The only thing I can conclude from this is that my head is a pretty fucking scary place to be.

 

[ptgatsby]

I doubt the INTJ will be showing you their Ni much unless you get to know them intimately.

Not saying Ni-Te is open and Ti-Ne is closed. Just that Ni-Te is more open. N=Open-Mindendedness. Ni is more so because of Introversion (Introverted functions are stronger).

So, sleeping with, sharing a life with and living with an INTJ isn't intimate? What about growing up together?

N is open. Both INTxs are open people.
J is inflexible; P is flexible (by definition, no less).

Ni is different than Ne. Ni is a conditional function based on being open and inflexible. Ne is a conditional function based on being open and flexible. It is irrelevent that Ni is dominant while Ne is secondary when the functions are different to start with.

 

[targobelle]

Why would you confuse yourself with an ENFJ? Ne-Fi can put on the image of an Fe. Much like for an INFJ, NI/Fe can put on an image of an Fi.

Why would you think you're an ESFP. Like take meshou for example who says that her Ti ranks high, even though I think she is an INFP. I, an INTP, have my Fi rank also high, just as high as the Ne. Thats an illusion though, its just our primary introverted judgment functions acting out and Ti projects an Fi image and for the INFP vice versa. Your Ne projects the Se image.

Just so that I am clear you're answering questions here as to why I might consider the other options right?

 

[Totenkindly]

Almost all of my introverted functions are used more than my extroverted ones. The only thing I can conclude from this is that my head is a pretty fucking scary place to be.

Hmmm. I have the same sort of issue with weak extrovert traits and strong introvert traits (except for my Ne being strong).

Did you spend most of your early life having to introvert/withdraw a great deal? When people are in situations where the external world seems too overbearing or not malleable for them, they'll "go within" in order to survive and thrive. We develop functions as we need to.

I doubt the INTJ will be showing you their Ni much unless you get to know them intimately.

(conspiratorially) If you show me your Ni, I'll show you mine.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

So, sleeping with, sharing a life with and living with an INTJ isn't intimate? What about growing up together?

N is open. Both INTxs are open people.
J is inflexible; P is flexible (by definition, no less).

Ni is different than Ne. Ni is a conditional function based on being open and inflexible. Ne is a conditional function based on being open and flexible. It is irrelevent that Ni is dominant while Ne is secondary when the functions are different to start with.

Keep in mind that an INTP who has been trained to be open-minded (was subjected to a lot of studies) will probably be more open-minded than an INTJ who was not.

All in all, if you give them the same resources and they are of equal talent, in the end INTJ will prove to be open-minded. If they dont, than something isnt right here... you better make sure that they really are a primary Ni...

As for the rest I cannot withhold the statement that Ti is the most analytical function and INTP is decidedly more analytical than an INTJ... and Ni the most imaginative and INTJ is decidely more imaginative than an INTP.

Keep in mind though... just because you spend a lot of time with the INTJ and have an emotional bondage with them it does not mean that they will be comfortable discussing ideas with you and still may not show you their Ni.

Just so that I am clear you're answering questions here as to why I might consider the other options right?

Yes, wasnt this the case...where you werent sure why you were testing as ESFP or ENFJ.

 

[nottaprettygal]

Did you spend most of your early life having to introvert/withdraw a great deal? When people are in situations where the external world seems too overbearing or not malleable for them, they'll "go within" in order to survive and thrive. We develop functions as we need to.

Nope. That's the thing, I can't tie it to any sort of life event. My childhood was normal, and I did normal kid things (mainly because my parents encouraged me to), but I've always pretty much lived inside of my own head.

I can see how some of my functions would have become more introverted in recent years, but meh. . . I've pretty much always been this way. It's annoying at times.

 

[targobelle]

Yes, wasnt this the case...where you werent sure why you were testing as ESFP or ENFJ.

Oh oh yes you're quite right