Intellectual Frustration

[ygolo]

I needs some tips and tricks.

How, when you are curious about something, do you make sure you get your curiousity satisfied?

Usually, what sparks my curiosity is the drive to answer some question, or gain some skill.

Unfortunately, most of the time, the steps I take to answer the questions, or gain the skills I want fall far short.

So, any success stories? How did you manage to be successful at your intellectual endevours?

 

[Arandur]

Research exhaustively, then think of ways which I could gather more data, like with surveys, interviews (not so keen on those but they're a possibility nonetheless), etc., which never actually happen but I always think of them and similar things anyways. A good while of this usually takes care of it, until I stumble upon more information and the quest is picked up again.

 

[Randomnity]

Google.

 

[spirilis]

Google.

+1 along with wikipedia

 

[Athenian200]

Me? I usually research it completely until I'm sure that I throughly understand it. I might use a combination of internet searches, people who understand the subject, and books on it. Often, I'm never completely satisfied that I understand it, and research it forever. It's a bad habit of mine to turn into an eternal student of a particular topic.

 

[amber_rk]

I narrow down the question. If the curiosity concerns a certain kind of information, I certainly look for it (google it, whatever) which would satisfy me quickly.

If it is a rather broad and controverisal subject, I like analyzing the topic through different samples. I would do this by comparing and contrasting the specific examples(a real word event, a piece of art, a professional material etc.) and find out how my thoughts(ideas or a certain kind of intuition I had on the subject) can be corelated with them.

 

[ygolo]

The journalistic questions are easy. (Who, what, when, where?)

But most of my questions are "how" qestions or "how to", along with "how come" and why? Ususually, not things I can just look-up. Even if I could, I would need to exert quite some effort after finding it to understand it well enough to use it. Ususally, I only find things that are of fringe relavence.


Perhaps "intellectual" was not the right word. I meant to distinguish it from "assigned" goals.

• What about gaining a new skill/habbit (not a new degree)?
• Like playing a musucal instrument or a new foreign language (I have started and quit piano, violin, clarinet, and trumpet, and have failed at learning several foreign languages to the level of fluency)?
• Learning to dance (I tried swing dance lessons for a while, but not happy with the progress)?
• Building the habbit of speaking more loudly (life-long goal)?
• Becomming more organized (another life-long goal)?

More classically intelectual goals:

• Understanding the mathematics for Quantum Mechanics, so that I can understand things like entanglement and quantum teleportation to the level I can reproduce them myself (given the equipment). There are a lot of little examples like this.
  
• Continually becoming a better chess player, perhaps make Expert or Master level.

 

[Usehername]

hmmm. what have i done that fits your question....

*taught self guitar
*bought a CD to learn to speak Italian (that's only going so-so; I never listen to it enough)
*learned math tricks (see Speed Mathematics; it's a neat book that makes you look like a math whiz if you learn their shortcuts)
*took apart random things (tape player, VCR, etc.)
*i voraciously read up on a subject until I totally understand it in my head (or so I think) then I go and deal with the tangible concrete aspect of whatever it is.
etc.

I've actually been really focused on people, to be quite honest. Not just MBTI. Or systems in general. But really genuinely h-core analyzing interactions and watching people to get a better understanding of where they're coming from. Looking for common links... backgrounds... trying to truly understand their motivations.

I set it up in my head that I get someone on their toes on teh subject to quiz me. I have conversations in my head, and I'm nervous of not knowing the answers in reality so I go and solve them. It helps to pick people who think differently than you do, too.

 

[Natrushka]

+1 along with wikipedia

+ pubmed.

 

[ygolo]

hmmm. what have i done that fits your question....

*taught self guitar
*bought a CD to learn to speak Italian (that's only going so-so; I never listen to it enough)
*learned math tricks (see Speed Mathematics; it's a neat book that makes you look like a math whiz if you learn their shortcuts)
*took apart random things (tape player, VCR, etc.)
*i voraciously read up on a subject until I totally understand it in my head (or so I think) then I go and deal with the tangible concrete aspect of whatever it is.
etc.

I've actually been really focused on people, to be quite honest. Not just MBTI. Or systems in general. But really genuinely h-core analyzing interactions and watching people to get a better understanding of where they're coming from. Looking for common links... backgrounds... trying to truly understand their motivations.

I set it up in my head that I get someone on their toes on teh subject to quiz me. I have conversations in my head, and I'm nervous of not knowing the answers in reality so I go and solve them. It helps to pick people who think differently than you do, too.

So how did you finally teach youself Guitar? Did you follow some system? I usually just stopped liking it, brcause I couldn't see myself practicing for long enough to play the types of music I wanted. The path seemed longer and more arduous than I would I ever thought (Plus, I got interested in something else).

Actually, I also got a book called Speed Mathematics, I used to be really fast. Now I make mistakes even on the simplest calulations. Have you used Harry Loraine's system for memory also?

I still link and chain, once in a while, but these systems take practice to keep up.

You're a geek like me huh?! I took apart and put back together more things than I can remember. My parents didn't usually get upset (except for the time I took apart the front door lock and couldn't put it back quite right).

Let me know how your latest endevor goes. I have just recently baught a bunch of the "Understanding Yourself and Others" series books, as well as Gift's DIffering. I hope this works out a little better than my excursions into Freud's Theories and NLP.

 

[Usehername]

So how did you finally teach youself Guitar? Did you follow some system? I usually just stopped liking it, brcause I couldn't see myself practicing for long enough to play the types of music I wanted. The path seemed longer and more arduous than I would I ever thought (Plus, I got interested in something else).

Actually, I also got a book called Speed Mathematics, I used to be really fast. Now I make mistakes even on the simplest calulations. Have you used Harry Loraine's system for memory also?

I still link and chain, once in a while, but these systems take practice to keep up.

You're a geek like me huh?! I took apart and put back together more things than I can remember. My parents didn't usually get upset (except for the time I took apart the front door lock and couldn't put it back quite right).

Let me know how your latest endevor goes. I have just recently baught a bunch of the "Understanding Yourself and Others" series books, as well as Gift's DIffering. I hope this works out a little better than my excursions into Freud's Theories and NLP.

I had already completed a decade of piano lessons by then, so I pretty much cheated. I knew so much music theory it was just a solid hour of thinking about the new organization of musical relationships on the different instrument... then months of labor trying to teach my finger muscles... then repeat the process once I understand more about the guitar. I don't play the guitar that well, to be honest, I'm just mediocre. But I can learn any song, it'll just take me a longer time than most b/c I don't actually know the "rules" I just thought about it a lot and figured it out as I went along.

I'll reply to the other stuff later I am soo bad at procrastinating I have a paper due that I have... oh... 127 words completed so far. oops.

 

[ygolo]

I'll reply to the other stuff later I am soo bad at procrastinating I have a paper due that I have... oh... 127 words completed so far. oops.

No kidding. I counted 9 posts from you in under 3 hours, 5 of them after this one.

Not that I'm to talk. I have 4 more online lectures to watch.

 

[Veneti]

The journalistic questions are easy. (Who, what, when, where?)

• What about gaining a new skill/habbit (not a new degree)?
• Like playing a musucal instrument or a new foreign language (I have started and quit piano, violin, clarinet, and trumpet, and have failed at learning several foreign languages to the level of fluency)?
• Learning to dance (I tried swing dance lessons for a while, but not happy with the progress)?

The above list does not look like classical NT type thought processes, only maybe when you're young trying to be "popular"

More classically intelectual goals:

• Building the habbit of speaking more loudly (life-long goal)?
• Becomming more organized (another life-long goal)?

I can understand these as they are directed at achieving the NT systems.

The question I'd pose as an NT, is why would I waste my time on such pursuits? The less intellectual goals you present seem to be an effort to conform and fit into non NT ideals and goals.

Now if you said, do you analyze music and look for the balance and layering of rifts (And technically break this art down into a scientific process)... then I would think this is NT.

I thought NT was systems building to achieve a useful outcome, not to achieve group conformity. I didn't think an NT outcome was to seek pleasure, as it lacks purpose?

 

[Usehername]

The above list does not look like classical NT type thought processes, only maybe when you're young trying to be "popular"



I can understand these as they are directed at achieving the NT systems.

The question I'd pose as an NT, is why would I waste my time on such pursuits? The less intellectual goals you present seem to be an effort to conform and fit into non NT ideals and goals.

Now if you said, do you analyze music and look for the balance and layering of rifts (And technically break this art down into a scientific process)... then I would think this is NT.

I thought NT was systems building to achieve a useful outcome, not to achieve group conformity. I didn't think an NT outcome was to seek pleasure, as it lacks purpose?

I think you're missing that many NTs value things that are valued by lots of people. So it's not group conformity, it's expanding yourself in areas that interest you. I think, in fact, that an NT who only seeks after intellectual goals is one who is either a) less mature or b) has noticeable areas of weakness in their life, and are "playing it safe" by sticking to where you're comfortable.

I'm an NT who obviously likes reading, researching, etc. But I also played varsity sports in high school, took piano lessons for a decade, etc. My identity is not solely defined by my brain. Doesn't it seem like a "holier than thou" attitude to diss things that aren't stereotypically NT? It implies that things such as arts or socializing are inferior to intellectual pursuits. They're different. Not better.

 

[Prometheus]

Most people would like to do well on everything. NTs will try to achieve this with systems.

 

[Veneti]

I think you're missing that many NTs value things that are valued by lots of people. So it's not group conformity, it's expanding yourself in areas that interest you. I think, in fact, that an NT who only seeks after intellectual goals is one who is either a) less mature or b) has noticeable areas of weakness in their life, and are "playing it safe" by sticking to where you're comfortable.

I'm an NT who obviously likes reading, researching, etc. But I also played varsity sports in high school, took piano lessons for a decade, etc. My identity is not solely defined by my brain. Doesn't it seem like a "holier than thou" attitude to diss things that aren't stereotypically NT? It implies that things such as arts or socializing are inferior to intellectual pursuits. They're different. Not better.

Fair enough, but you sitting around playing the guitar is just stopping you from acquiring the huge amounts of information that exists to be understood.

Probably there is also a Male / Female slant to all this, Although I guess there are NT's I know that do some musical stuff to offset the focus on intellectual things they do day in and day out.

Problem I would see with learning an instrument or whatever, just what purpose would it serve? Why not just listen to some music rather than spend ages trying to play it?

Admittedly, a while ago I saw deep space nine (or whatever it is called) and saw the BORG... and thought... holly sh*t I've become like them... haven't changed though... just know myself better.

 

[Usehername]

Fair enough, but you sitting around playing the guitar is just stopping you from acquiring the huge amounts of information that exists to be understood.

Probably there is also a Male / Female slant to all this, Although I guess there are NT's I know that do some musical stuff to offset the focus on intellectual things they do day in and day out.

Problem I would see with learning an instrument or whatever, just what purpose would it serve? Why not just listen to some music rather than spend ages trying to play it?

Admittedly, a while ago I saw deep space nine (or whatever it is called) and saw the BORG... and thought... holly sh*t I've become like them... haven't changed though... just know myself better.

Well, if your primary goal in life is to gain intelligence, then I respond to you with this:

Preschoolers who took singing and keyboard lessons scored 80% higher on object-assembly tests than students at the same pre-school who did not have the music lessons.

In a study of medical school applicants, 66% of the music majors who applied to medical school were admitted, the highest percentage of any group. Only 44% of the biochemistry majors were admitted.

The very best engineers and technical designers in the Silicon Valley industry are, nearly without exception, practicing musicians.

Plato once said "...music is a more potent instrument than any other for education..." now scientists know why. Music , they believe, trains the brain for higher forms of thinking. After eight months of musical training, 3 year olds were expert puzzle masters, scoring 80% higher than their playmates did in spatial intelligence-the ability to visualize the world accurately. This skill later translates into mathematica/conceptual and engineering skills.

"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the rest of musical perception." - Albert Einstein on his Theory of Relativity.

I mean... I don't know where you've been living to have never heard this, but music is pretty frickin' useful.

However, my bigger problem with your position is that you don't appear to value anything beyond brain growth. How old are you? I'm trying to figure out if I should virtually smack you upside the head and tell you to get out and experience life a little bit (if you're old enough that you should know better) or be more forgiving because you're a young NT who hasn't learned this life lesson yet: life is more than your intelligence. EVEN if you are an NT.

 

[Veneti]

Well, if your primary goal in life is to gain intelligence, then I respond to you with this:



I mean... I don't know where you've been living to have never heard this, but music is pretty frickin' useful.

However, my bigger problem with your position is that you don't appear to value anything beyond brain growth. How old are you? I'm trying to figure out if I should virtually smack you upside the head and tell you to get out and experience life a little bit (if you're old enough that you should know better) or be more forgiving because you're a young NT who hasn't learned this life lesson yet: life is more than your intelligence. EVEN if you are an NT.

Statistics, Statistics and damned lies.

If you are saying that music helps stimulate the right side of the brain and allows greater connections with the left then I can see some common ground.
But this is where the scientific evidence should present its findings. Not actually by doing a survey of what these people did when they were young... (Every kid at my school played the recorder for some lessons)(But kids from a more privileged background did music lessons - I think you may have a huge socio economic issue as there is a high correlation with occupation and parental achievement). Where I live 70% of professionals will have gone fishing as a child... the fish have it.

I don't actually see playing music as an overly creative process, and as such it would be expected that an NT would be able and disciplined enough to be good at it. (I'd say Suduko and other puzzles would provide more stimulus as a function of time).

If they did some worthwhile research they should look at children who are really into sports and analyze the ones who are say left footed and right handed which I believe seriously utilizes both sides of the brain (or vice versa).

So is music important, yes, as a leisure activity if that’s your thing. I've never seen any evidence that shows it is a better activity than many other pursuits if we talk about creativity/intellect.

Anyway, good luck with your music writing.