Gender dysphoria and Fi

[Totenkindly]

Wouldn't Fe users be hit especially hard by being perceived by others as wrong gender?

Wouldn't Fi people be hit especially hard by being forced to fit the wrong gender?

Gender dysphoria is particularly hard for anyone regardless of type.

In this case, I was referring to ISFJ being very inclined by personality to sacrifice their own needs for others they feel bound to, based on the conversations I've had with them (and other types as well). There are some types that prioritize that kind of sacrifice less even when they take it seriously.

 

[skin]

Wouldn't Fi people be hit especially hard by being forced to fit the wrong gender?

I would expect Fi to have less gender dysphoria in general, but maybe being hit even harder once it occurs.
Gender seems like a socially mediated identity orientation that is a bit antithetical to the abstract and solipsist mode of Fi.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

I would expect Fi to have less gender dysphoria in general, but maybe being hit even harder once it occurs.
Gender seems like a socially mediated identity orientation that is a bit antithetical to the abstract and solipsist mode of Fi.

Isn't gender dysphoria is a more biological thing? From what I understand sexual differentiation of brain occurs later than genital differentiation which may lead to mismatch.

 

[skin]

Isn't gender dysphoria is a more biological thing? From what I understand sexual differentiation of brain occurs later than genital differentiation which may lead to mismatch.

That might be. I need to read more about it, to be honest.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Gender dysphoria pertains not to type, but to identity formation, which is something every healthy, normal, non-disordered or delayed individual forms during adolescence. There is science that backs this up, actually. Erik Erikson's theory of development has a lot of empirical data. Personally, I think gender dysphoria is part of a disorder.

 

[Coriolis]

Isn't gender dysphoria is a more biological thing? From what I understand sexual differentiation of brain occurs later than genital differentiation which may lead to mismatch.

I have read discussions that suggest it is a form of intersexed condition, where the brain chemistry/wiring does not match the genitalia, chromosomes, and/or external sex characteristics. Much more study will be required to understand if this is the case.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

I have read discussions that suggest it is a form of intersexed condition, where the brain chemistry/wiring does not match the genitalia, chromosomes, and/or external sex characteristics. Much more study will be required to understand if this is the case.

When I first heard it in the TV it was how it was presented. Here's a paper on it:

Neuroimaging studies in people with gender incongruence

The current review gives an overview of brain studies in transgender people. First, we describe studies into the aetiology of feelings of gender incongruence, primarily addressing the sexual differ...

www.tandfonline.com

In early (prenatal) development, gonadal steroids direct the sexual differentiation of the brain (organizing effects of sex hormones), and later during life, circulating hormones influence the brain (activating effects of sex hormones). Hormone levels may fluctuate or change during puberty, the menstrual cycle, menopause and hormone treatment. A prominent hypothesis for the mechanism behind feelings of gender incongruence is that exposure to sex hormones during prenatal development has led to atypical sexual differentiation of the brain, with the body and genitals developing in the direction of one sex, and the brain and gender in the direction of the other sex (Swaab & Garcia-Falgueras, 2009). The time window for prenatal sexual differentiation of the genitals precedes the time window for brain sexual differentiation.

But modern progressives seem to be obsessed with concept of gender identity as personality type which is very easy to attack by TERFs and conservatives because it's painted as purely socially constructed instead of biological. I guess that's what happens when most of people think MBTI is astrology for adults.

 

[Coriolis]

When I first heard it in the TV it was how it was presented. Here's a paper on it:

Neuroimaging studies in people with gender incongruence

The current review gives an overview of brain studies in transgender people. First, we describe studies into the aetiology of feelings of gender incongruence, primarily addressing the sexual differ...

www.tandfonline.com

But modern progressives seem to be obsessed with concept of gender identity as personality type which is very easy to attack by TERFs and conservatives because it's painted as purely socially constructed instead of biological. I guess that's what happens when most of people think MBTI is astrology for adults.

We cannot exclude the possibility that what we call personality type may eventually be tied to something physiological like how our brains are wired. Such a connection has been shown for traits like introversion and extraversion, as well as for some of the qualities that are part of the Big Five "conscientiousness" attribute.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

We cannot exclude the possibility that what we call personality type may eventually be tied to something physiological like how our brains are wired. Such a connection has been shown for traits like introversion and extraversion, as well as for some of the qualities that are part of the Big Five "conscientiousness" attribute.

Dario Nardi pretty much already confirmed that it applies to whole cognitive types. I mean them conflating gender with personality type and other traits because some people say men are like this, women are like this, etc. and they invent a dozen of "genders" to match their personality types and introduce a lot of confusion into discourse.

Conscientiousness is a nonsensical attribute because it conflates desire with capabilities. Most of genetic correlation is probably with having Si and Te in high position function stack and memory/executive functioning capabilities that come with it.

 

[yeghor]

Controverisal unpopular opinion, criticise and downvote all you want: Transgender and non-binary people are more likely to be Fi-users. Fi is about how someone feels about themselves, not subjective logic (i.e. 'biologically male' or 'biologically female'). Thinkers are generally more likely to be transphobes, even if they're transgender themselves.

Does this look like a feeling to you:

Neuroimaging studies in people with gender incongruence

The current review gives an overview of brain studies in transgender people. First, we describe studies into the aetiology of feelings of gender incongruence, primarily addressing the sexual differ...

www.tandfonline.com

The entire premise is wrong.

From the paper:

Nevertheless, a brain phenotype becomes apparent from DTI and CTh (brain scans) in early onset androphilic MtF (transwomen) and gynephilic FtM (transmen). Their gross morphology is similar to their natal sex, but white matter microstructure is demasculinized in androphilic MtF (transwomen) and masculinized in gynephilic FtM (transmen). Moreover, androphilic MtF and gynephilic FtM present with a feminine cortical thickness, but they differ from control men in various regions of the cortex.

A difference in brain phenotype of people with GI compared to natal sex controls in various brain measures suggests a sex-atypical development of the brain. However, it remains unclear whether these changes originate from prenatal organization alone. Knowledge of the development of the brain during adolescence (Giedd et al., 2012), and the importance of puberty in the clinical presentation of GI (Steensma et al., 2013), suggest that this period is pivotal in understanding the development of GI. (Gender incongruence).

The article suggests white matter structure is feminine in transwomen, and masculine in transmen, meaning either during pregnancy or adolescence, their brain white matter structure developed in opposite gender to their natal/birth sex.

In MBTI terms this means transwomen have higher probability of being F-dom men, and transmen have higher probability of being T-dom women i.e. their brain gender identity is strikingly opposite to their body sex.