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Gender dysphoria and Fi

Joined
Sep 29, 2021
Messages
19
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Controverisal unpopular opinion, criticise and downvote all you want: Transgender and non-binary people are more likely to be Fi-users. Fi is about how someone feels about themselves, not subjective logic (i.e. 'biologically male' or 'biologically female'). Thinkers are generally more likely to be transphobes, even if they're transgender themselves.
 

Indigo Rodent

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
244
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
1w9
Controverisal unpopular opinion, criticise and downvote all you want: Transgender and non-binary people are more likely to be Fi-users. Fi is about how someone feels about themselves, not subjective logic (i.e. 'biologically male' or 'biologically female'). Thinkers are generally more likely to be transphobes, even if they're transgender themselves.
Does this look like a feeling to you:

The entire premise is wrong.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
46,986
MBTI Type
BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, I did find that I needed to develop my Fi-style framework to have the strength to proceed and live the way I needed to. It was difficult being a Ti-dom because I kept trying to evaluate it impersonally to reach a conclusion about how to live my life, but a lot of it is about living your truth and your own subjective experience that I can't necessarily justify to others (nor do I need to, in the end). It was a lot of building up my internal sense of self and not apologizing to people for honoring myself. In a way, it was almost an act of faith because I couldn't logically "prove" anything.
 
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Frosty

Poking the poodle
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
12,447
Instinctual Variant
sp
No. I could see where you might think that or come to that conclusion but no. Thats not what mature Fi is.
 

Coriolis

Liberator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
26,658
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Controverisal unpopular opinion, criticise and downvote all you want: Transgender and non-binary people are more likely to be Fi-users. Fi is about how someone feels about themselves, not subjective logic (i.e. 'biologically male' or 'biologically female'). Thinkers are generally more likely to be transphobes, even if they're transgender themselves.
Does this look like a feeling to you:

The entire premise is wrong.
Interesting article - thanks for sharing. I read a few older studies on the physiology of gender identity, but this is newer. Clearly an area where we still have much to learn, and I look forward to whatever new discoveries are made.
 

yubih

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2021
Messages
101
MBTI Type
isfp
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Being part of the lgbt+ plus community I've come across many transgender and non-binary people coming from different parts of my country and different backgrounds, and I can say with a good degree of certainty that gender dysphoria has nothing to do with your functions. They're definitely not all Fi-doms, nor are most of them
 

ceecee

Dunkin Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
14,916
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Controverisal unpopular opinion, criticise and downvote all you want: Transgender and non-binary people are more likely to be Fi-users. Fi is about how someone feels about themselves, not subjective logic (i.e. 'biologically male' or 'biologically female'). Thinkers are generally more likely to be transphobes, even if they're transgender themselves.
This is not a controversial unpopular opinion. This is stupid.
 

Doctor Anaximander

i give up
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
19,342
I’d have guessed ISJs were more likely to transition, perhaps followed by INJs as second most likely.

now that I think about it, I wonder if those Objective Personality people have recorded any stats on this…
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
46,986
MBTI Type
BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Why would you guess ISFJ?

Damn, they're far more likely in my experience to suffer silently out of duty to family, as far as people in their 40s and older go. Also not wanting to stick out or be seen as odd or bad or make waves.
 

Doctor Anaximander

i give up
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
19,342
Why would you guess ISFJ?

Damn, they're far more likely in my experience to suffer silently out of duty to family, as far as people in their 40s and older go. Also not wanting to stick out or be seen as odd or bad or make waves.
Maybe 20 years ago, but now that people are becoming decreasingly transphobic, I’m not sure.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
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Messages
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Maybe 20 years ago, but now that people are becoming decreasingly transphobic, I’m not sure.
that's why I put in the age range. Yes, 20+ years ago that was the way it was, my hands-on practical experience with the community started in the mid-90's.

My kids' generation, there's a lot less stigma; and since people can deal with it earlier in life rather than establishing families and responsibilities in their prior gender and thus having those things looming over them, they are much more free to make necessary changes.

It's one of those things where much of the older people's experiences are going to be markedly different from people who are maybe 25-30 and younger. Even getting medical care at a younger age will change how easily people can transition and fit in and be less recognizable as a separate category.

I'm still not sure how I fall on the prominence of transphobia. Younger people are far more accepting and have more freedom; but with increased exposure, there's also been much more vocal pushback from some people, most recently highlighted by the things happening with JK Rowling, TERFs in Britain, and Dave Chapelle.

Since I wasn't clear earlier, in my experiences I've run across with people across various personality types who identify as trans, virtually every type. My transwoman friend who just died in the summer was a blatant ENTJ, but I think her trans partner was ISxJ. I did notice in online communities 10-20 years back a lot of NFPs were showing up (many were into personality typing)... but that's a selective environment, much as this typology site originally drew a lot of NTPs and NFPs because I think early online communities tended to mesh with their interests, abilities, and expectations.
 
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prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,303
MBTI Type
yupp
my mom grew up in the 50s and 60s and she said recently "I don't understand all this gender stuff, but I'm glad people are now able to express themselves, that wouldn't have been possible when I was growing up" and then talked about a man who used to walk through town in a dress and how that was a bigger deal than it is now. I mean it's still not a good idea to do in some communities but it is improving.
 

ceecee

Dunkin Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
14,916
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
that's why I put in the age range. Yes, 20+ years ago that was the way it was, my hands-on practical experience with the community started in the mid-90's.

My kids' generation, there's a lot less stigma; and since people can deal with it earlier in life rather than establishing families and responsibilities in their prior gender and thus having those things looming over them, they are much more free to make necessary changes.

It's one of those things where much of the older people's experiences are going to be markedly different from people who are maybe 25-30 and younger. Even getting medical care at a younger age will change how easily people can transition and fit in and be less recognizable as a separate category.

I'm still not sure how I fall on the prominence of transphobia. Younger people are far more accepting and have more freedom; but with increased exposure, there's also been much more vocal pushback from some people, most recently highlighted by the things happening with JK Rowling, TERFs in Britain, and Dave Chapelle.

Since I wasn't clear earlier, in my experiences I've run across with people across various personality types who identify as trans, virtually every type. My transwoman friend who just died in the summer was a blatant ENTJ, but I think her trans partner was ISxJ. I did notice in online communities 10-20 years back a lot of NFPs were showing up (many were into personality typing)... but that's a selective environment, much as this typology site originally drew a lot of NTPs and NFPs because I think early online communities tended to mesh with their interests, abilities, and expectations.
Dave Chapelle has a really unhealthy obsession with trans people - he said that he thinks about them all the time. I think it impacts his comedy and it's not funny.
 

Indigo Rodent

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
244
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
1w9
Why would you guess ISFJ?

Damn, they're far more likely in my experience to suffer silently out of duty to family, as far as people in their 40s and older go. Also not wanting to stick out or be seen as odd or bad or make waves.
Wouldn't Fe users be hit especially hard by being perceived by others as wrong gender?
 

Coriolis

Liberator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
26,658
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Wouldn't Fe users be hit especially hard by being perceived by others as wrong gender?
I think Fe users would be more inclined to go along with that external perception, to accommodate the social environment, get along, etc. Fi users would take it more personally as they reference things to an internal standard. Of course this is all an oversimplification. The influence of the other functions cannot be neglected, and the net effect can result in just the opposite observed behavior for any number of reasons.
 
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