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Trump vs. Bernie

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Just break into people's houses and rob them. It'll pay for all the "toys."

You should try it sometime. It's fun! You get to see different architectural styles too.

It'd be great if you shared the same concern about "how to pay for that" with Dubya's tax cuts as you do with things like Medicare-4-All (the so called "free stuff").

Republican tactic: run up a huge deficit through tax cuts, and then complain that we have a spending crisis and can't afford to pay for niceties like poor people not dying because they can't get healthcare. Very moderate and sensible.
 

Jonny

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Here's the full text for those who are interested:

man-and woman said:
A man goes home and masturbates his typical fantasy. A woman on her knees, a woman tied up, a woman abused.

A woman enjoys intercourse with her man — as she fantasizes being raped by 3 men simultaneously.

The man and woman get dressed up on Sunday — and go to Church, or maybe to their "revolutionary" political meeting.

Have you ever looked at the Stag, Man, Hero, Tough magazines on the shelf of your local bookstore? Do you know why the newspaper with the articles like "Girl 12 raped by 14 men" sell so well? To what in us are they appealing?

Women, for their own preservation, are trying to pull themselves together. And it's necessary for all of humanity that they do so. Slavishness on one hand breeds pigness on the other hand. Pigness on one hand breeds slavishness on the other. Men and women — both are losers. Women adapt themselves to fill the needs of men, and men adapt themselves to fill the needs of women. In the beginning there were strong men who killed the animals and brought home the food — and the dependent women who cooked it. No More! Only the roles remain — waiting to be shaken off. There are no "human" oppressors. Oppressors have lost their humanity. On one hand "slavishness," on the other hand "pigness." Six of one, half dozen of the other. Who wins?

Many women seem to be walking a tightrope now. Their qualities of love, openness, and gentleness were too deeply enmeshed with qualities of dependency, subservience, and masochism. How do you love — without being dependent? How do you be gentle — without being subservient? How do you maintain a relationship without giving up your identity and without getting strung out? How do you reach out and give your heart to your lover, but maintain the soul which is you?

And Men. Men are in pain too. They are thinking, wondering. What is it they want from a woman? Are they at fault? Are they perpetrating this man-woman situation? Are they oppressors?

The man is bitter.

"You lied to me," he said. (She did).

"You said that you loved me, that you wanted me, that you needed me. Those are your words." (They are).

"But in reality," he said, "If you ever loved me, or wanted me, or needed me (all of which I'm not certain was ever true), you also hated me. You hated me — just as you have hated every man in your entire life, but you didn't have the guts to tell me that. You hated me before you ever saw me, even though I was not your father, or your teacher, or your sex friend when you were 13 years old, or your husband. You hated me not because of who I am, or what I was to you, but because I am a man. You did not deal with me as a person — as me. You lived a lie with me, used me and played games with me — and that's a piggy thing to do."

And she said, "You wanted me not as a woman, or a lover, or a friend, but as a submissive woman, or submissive friend, or submissive lover; and right now where my head is I balk at even the slightest suspicion of that kind of demand."

And he said, "You're full of _______."

And they never again made love together (which they had each liked to do more than anything) or never ever saw each other one more time.
 

Stigmata

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Removed several off-topic posts. Just a reminder to everyone to stay on topic, OR ELSE!!! (or else I'll just remove more off-topic posts....)
 
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Removed several off-topic posts. Just a reminder to everyone to stay on topic, OR ELSE!!! (or else I'll just remove more off-topic posts....)

[MENTION=37565]Maou[/MENTION] made me laugh, though.

- - - Updated - - -

You need a voter's registration to vote.

Yes. You also need a driver's license to drive. What is your point?
 

Jaguar

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Yes. You also need a driver's license to drive. What is your point?

You can't vote for any candidate for president without a registration. It's not difficult to understand. For example, I'm not currently registered. Suggesting I voted in the past for X, Y or Z wouldn't make sense if I wasn't even registered. That's the point.
 
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You can't vote for any candidate for president without a registration. It's not difficult to understand. For example, I'm not currently registered. Suggesting I voted in the past for X, Y or Z wouldn't make sense if I wasn't even registered. That's the point.

You never voted before?
 
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You never moved to another state before?

Really, the only question I'm interested in is how you voted in 2004. I find it curious that you never denied voting Republican in 2004, since doing so (if it was the case) would have strengthened your own argument. I don't care if you're registered now or not.
 

Jaguar

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Really, the only question I'm interested in is how you voted in 2004. I find it curious that you never denied voting Republican in 2004, since doing so (if it was the case) would have strengthened your own argument. I don't care if you're registered now or not.

With or without a registration?
 
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With or without a registration?

You're not answering my question. You're trying to deflect attention from the issue. Was the idea of a balanced budget important enough for you to cut ties with the Republican party when they created a budget deficit and continued to cut taxes?
 

Jaguar

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You're not answering my question. You're trying to deflect attention from the issue. Was the idea of a balanced budget important enough for you to cut ties with the Republican party when they created a budget deficit and continued to cut taxes?

I'm going to Starbucks since this is getting silly. Later.
 

highlander

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A wealth tax needs to happen. Not just because of the economic disparity it causes and the fact that it is a major reason why poverty is so rampant in this country (which effects everyone, negatively), but because the extremely wealthy hold far too much authority, social power, sway, and ultimately are able to get away with white collar (and sometimes) regular crime far too easily. Our government regulations on who can influence what and to what effect is far too weak, and because the government is filled with far too many people that bow to it in one way or another. We can't change our politicans quickly enough, so its regulation that needs to change. Overturn citizens united is one of the first major things that needs to happen. Lobbying as a practice needs to either be heavily regulated and monitored with significant public transparency, or be abolished entirely. While it would be great if current politicans were honest and responsible, too few aren't, either by ignorance or authoritarian values. Unless stuff changes changes, nothing in politics will globally change.

You also seem to come from the standpoint that governance and government can't change. Our current system is broken because it relies far too heavily on hand-shake style agreements and rules. So much in government is archaic and maintained simply because it's a tradition and been done for decades or centuries, without any consideration into modern contexts with how much more we know. It's currently largely an honor system when it comes to influence, and it's far too easily exploited. If we simply changed our economic style from trickle down to bubble up (just an example) with the current legal systems and people we have, the corruption would simply shift from the private sphere to the public sphere. If we want trickle down economics to work, we would need wide sweeping regulatory oversight over all kinds of organizations that in current form would be crippled. So, to answer your question, there is a shitton of archaic inefficiency and waste, so it needs to change significantly. Republicans won't do it because the current party is fascist, democrats won't do it as a bulk because they simply like to maintain the illusion of function (and a large portion of the party is firmly right wing, which opposes regulation) and cling far too strongly to tradition and very slow change (which opens them up to GOP exploitation). However, there is an increasing number of democrats who actually have identified the problems we face and will work to overhaul our government over the ensuing years and generations. In order for them to do that, the opaque money and corporate interests need to be taken out of politics.

One of my largest concerns with bernie if he wins is if the private sphere covertly tanks everything in protest; "if I can't have my way... then no one can have their way!". Corporations have a vested interest in keeping the economic system as it currently is, and emotional immaturity is RIFE at the C-suite level. At this point though, we have no choice but to try. If just for the fact that him and Warren are the only people we got at the moment to actually make the needed changes. I should be clear, I like them for a lot of reasons, but I don't think either of them will acomplish nearly as much as they claim to aim for. Despite supporting him, I find the rabid fandom of him to be nauseating at times, but I also sour to fandom in general. These things will take years and generations of persistence, and it's going to be bumpy for a while, but at this point we have to.

Also, we all need to be realistic. There IS going to be an economic downswing, the quality of life for a lot of people is going to have to take a hit, but it's certiainly not going to send people into ruin as we change. We're pretty much at peak global productivity and growth. It can't go on forever, particularly now that climate change needs to be dealt with. All of us are going to have to make a sacrifice in some way or another, but those who are at the bottom need support, because if they fall any further it means misery or death.

And yes, all of us have worked with government agencies in adulthood. A lot of them suck, but they can be improved. I'd rather deal with that though instead of corporate overloads.

That's a thoughtful post. I don't agree with all of it. I think a lot of our issues go back to the corporation. It's not the overlords per se. It's the construct itself that drives things. The corporation is like a shark and all it cares about is profit. I don't know the answer but don't think I've heard any political candidate that has a fix for the issues outlined in this video. Socialism isn't a fix.

 

rav3n

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I'm not quite sure if honeymooning in Russia is worse than heaping praise on Vladimir Putin, someone who actively seeks to undermine our democracy and has all but flat out admitted to meddling in our elections, while also blocking bills that would help prevent said meddling. Just sayin'
Also...

Sanders condemns Russian interference in 2020 elections - POLITICO

Bernie Sanders on Friday condemned Russian interference in the 2020 election, telling Russia President Vladimir Putin that “if elected president, trust me, you are not going to be interfering in American elections.”

Sanders issued a statement in response to The Washington Post's report that the Vermont senator was briefed by U.S. officials on Russia’s attempt to help his campaign as part of an effort to interfere with the Democratic election. And in a later gaggle with reporters Friday afternoon, Sanders confirmed that the briefing happened “about a month ago.”

“Unlike Donald Trump, I do not consider Vladimir Putin a good friend,” the statement said. “He is an autocratic thug who is attempting to destroy democracy and crush dissent in Russia. Let’s be clear, the Russians want to undermine American democracy by dividing us up and, unlike the current president, I stand firmly against their efforts, and any other foreign power that wants to interfere in our election.”

Sanders on Friday called the interference an “ugly thing” that is attempting to “divide us up.”

“That’s what they did in 2016. That is the ugliest thing they’re doing, is they are trying to cause chaos, trying to cause hatred in America,” Sanders told reporters. “It is an ugly business, and all of us have got to say, ‘Sorry, you are not going to do this in this election.’”
 
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Bernie mentioned Denmark in last night's debate. Denmark is pretty much 100% white and has less people than NYC. He's comparing apples to oranges. Socialism isn't a complete disaster when the population is isolated and homogeneous because everyone knows everyone else, so the incentive to steal and cheat is less because you're stealing from people you know. This was proven in a nut sharing study with squirrels. In every other place, socialism is a massive failure.

The reason why urban centers are rife with crime is because of Democrat policies like high taxes, over-regulation, and the minimum wage. All of these progressive policies reduce opportunities because they take resources away from business owners.

I read on Forbes that the Nordic countries aren't even socialist.

Most of the things that the government promises are massive failures. I don't know why we'd trust them with more power and responsibility. It brings to mind this Tom Waits song.

 

Jonny

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I read on Forbes that the Nordic countries aren't even socialist.

Most of the things that the government promises are massive failures. I don't know why we'd trust them with more power and responsibility. It brings to mind this Tom Waits song.


My mother survived on disability for several years after her back surgery. I was educated in public schools and at a public university. My grandparents lived off of social security until they died. I've driven across multiple state lines on national highways without incident. The CDC works to track and catalog the spread of diseases and develops vaccinations that save hundreds of thousands of lives each year.

I'm not sure what you mean by "most things" or "massive failures" but I'd like specific examples so we can discuss this more in depth.

In no way am I advocating for less freedom or a nanny state; I think liberty and the right to be in control of one's own destiny are of utmost importance. But I think it is important to rationally assess our problems and take an honest look at the possible solutions to them.
 

SearchingforPeace

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That's a thoughtful post. I don't agree with all of it. I think a lot of our issues go back to the corporation. It's not the overlords per se. It's the construct itself that drives things. The corporation is like a shark and all it cares about is profit. I don't know the answer but don't think I've heard any political candidate that has a fix for the issues outlined in this video. Socialism isn't a fix.


The corporate form is by nature sociopathic. It allows everyone to be inhumane and evil and say, "It's just business". All forms of limited liability really should be banned. Corporations should go back to their original idea of being a public non profit for a specific purpose such as building and maintaining a bridge.

Bureaucracies are very similar to corporations. Bureaucrats justify their sociopathic decisions as "it the rules", as if those are holy and sacred, even though the rules get bent for powerful folks all the time.

Both bureaucrats and corporate denizens care most about keeping their positions and not making waves, which often result in stagnation.
 

Tellenbach

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Jonny said:
I was educated in public schools and at a public university. My grandparents lived off of social security until they died. I've driven across multiple state lines on national highways without incident. The CDC works to track and catalog the spread of diseases and develops vaccinations that save hundreds of thousands of lives each year.

I'm not sure what you mean by "most things" or "massive failures" but I'd like specific examples so we can discuss this more in depth.

In no way am I advocating for less freedom or a nanny state; I think liberty and the right to be in control of one's own destiny are of utmost importance. But I think it is important to rationally assess our problems and take an honest look at the possible solutions to them.

Both public education and Social Security are examples of failures. Private and charter schools outperform public schools; there is zero accountability with failing schools in Chicago and Detroit. Public schools routinely fail tens of millions of teenagers with zero accountability.

Social Security is a restriction on personal liberty. If you have stage IV cancer and you're only 54 years old, you aren't getting any Social Security benefits even though, it's technically your money. If you're 65 years old and you just started getting SS and you die a week later, your family doesn't get the money. On average, black people lose money on Social Security because they have shorter lifespans. The rate of return on Social Security is around 1.5% I believe. Sure, this helps some people who can't manage their own money, but it hurts far more people.

Medicare is a mess. It loses $100 billion/year in waste, fraud, and abuse. The infrastructure is a mess. If you have time, take a look at California's high speed rail plan - billions in waste.
 
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