Is capitalism a religion?

[Jaguar]

.

 

[Norexan]

Capitalists also convince other people that humans are evil and they cannot grow higher then animals, infact they want to preserve these kind of state of mind as long as they get profit from you. They promote system of jungle incorporated into their own kind. Cannibalistic isn't it?

 

[Jaguar]

Fine Young Cannibals. Good Thing.

 

[Lark]

Rich people will buy things they don't need to so the banker aristocracy will uphold the power. Poor people will do 24/7 so they can survive in the system. Middle-class people will be erased so the rich can enslave the poor. CAPITALISM IN NUTSHELL.

Well, I tend to think there are capitalisms rather than just a single capitalism, some of them are more or less "extreme" in trying to fit particular dogmatic patterns, or more often serve particular interests, but Marx did heap a lot of praise on capitalism, he thought it compared favourably to a lot of different socialist ideas in his day. Anyone who thinks Marx didnt do that hasnt read him. Its apparent even in the communist manifesto.

He thought there was nothing like capitalism for innovating new business practices and new technology (which he thought had increased the number of well to do idlers ) and that made it superior to anything the world has seen up to that point.

Although Marx's dilemma was that class struggles hadnt gone away, like every other society before it remained and the rationale allowing it to continue had simply changed along with the new machinery, new way of doing business and employing people. Marx thought that capitalism in theory became more and more sacred to politicians and business men who were a fan as it actually got remoter and remoter in actual practice/reality. I'd say that's true. I'd say its true of more than economics too obviously, Fromm thought it was true of ideology, religion, any sort of beliefs.

So really no matter how great capitalism is, and it is pretty great at what it does, there's still opposing interests that translate into class struggles which are largely unmanaged and ignored, which can and does result in some societies in pretty awful outcomes in which people are bought and sold and the price of everything and value of nothing is known by all. Worse still some of the societies that've said they are actively working to resolve or abolish class struggles are full of it.

 

[Norexan]

Well, I tend to think there are capitalisms rather than just a single capitalism, some of them are more or less "extreme" in trying to fit particular dogmatic patterns, or more often serve particular interests, but Marx did heap a lot of praise on capitalism, he thought it compared favourably to a lot of different socialist ideas in his day. Anyone who thinks Marx didnt do that hasnt read him. Its apparent even in the communist manifesto.

He thought there was nothing like capitalism for innovating new business practices and new technology (which he thought had increased the number of well to do idlers ) and that made it superior to anything the world has seen up to that point.

Although Marx's dilemma was that class struggles hadnt gone away, like every other society before it remained and the rationale allowing it to continue had simply changed along with the new machinery, new way of doing business and employing people. Marx thought that capitalism in theory became more and more sacred to politicians and business men who were a fan as it actually got remoter and remoter in actual practice/reality. I'd say that's true. I'd say its true of more than economics too obviously, Fromm thought it was true of ideology, religion, any sort of beliefs.

So really no matter how great capitalism is, and it is pretty great at what it does, there's still opposing interests that translate into class struggles which are largely unmanaged and ignored, which can and does result in some societies in pretty awful outcomes in which people are bought and sold and the price of everything and value of nothing is known by all. Worse still some of the societies that've said they are actively working to resolve or abolish class struggles are full of it.

Main problem with capitalism is the system based on getting profit so people will use anything to get the profit. People will destroy other countries, poison their own field... only because the profit. I don't trust capitalism because it is amoral system where one person can destroy everything only because his hunger for power and money. Basically, it is imperialism because as we all know capitalism cannot work by itself, it needs sacrifice to work, it needs destroying people's life so one life can be happy while others living in suffering and dying in the street. This is the system which use everything and everyone as a tool for profit. Profit becomes not a tool for building better future for mankind but personal hunger for satisfying temporal needs causing wars around the globe. Or you really think recent wars is about democracy? it is all about profit. It is all start because one man wants to sell his products by pulling his strings in higher level. That's a problem with capitalism.

Communism works like you are playing a strategy game. The state build what it wants to build and when it wants to build. Communism doesn't need to ask anyone on higher level to build school, factory or whatever, not it cares about needs of one man. If there is a need for such a thing, it will be built. And that's what is all about people > individuate. Also communism more care about global resources and use it in rational way, communism also tend to build something which is practical and can be used by everybody and what is more important it can last 100 years.

 

[anticlimatic]

Individual > group

 

[Norexan]

Individual > group

Capitalism also convince you that if you care more about people you loose sense of individuality but in reality this is good world for only 1% of people. All others are slaves. So I would ask you what is the point of individuality when you are enslaved by private corporations who don't care about mankind but only how they can earn more money?

 

[Jaguar]

Earning money and caring about mankind are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Norexan]

Earning money and caring about mankind are not mutually exclusive.

No they are not but because capitalism promotes people who earn money as more valuable then others and called them worms and bugs. Corps don't care about mankind. They care about profit. Because profit is their god and they will do anything, no matter how it is amoral to get the profit. So "caring about mankind" it is a lie because this is "too emotional" view of world for capitalists.

 

[Jaguar]

No they are not but because capitalism promotes people who earn money as more valuable then others who called them worms and bugs they are connected.

Thank you for giving me more communistic propaganda from your country, but I'm American. No sale, baby.

 

[Norexan]

Thank you for giving me more communistic propaganda from your country, but I'm American. No sale, baby.

Well at least communists didn't act like their care about mankind and in the same time bombing other countries so their collapsing economic system based on enslaving can work.

Also I believe the person cannot be xNTJ and strongly defend capitalism. Why? Very conservative, narrow-minded and inefficient system based on temporal needs and desires.

 

[Jaguar]

Communism.


This is a cat:

This is a dog:

Why? We say so. That's all that matters.

 

[Norexan]

Communism.


This is a cat:

This is a dog:

Why? We say so. That's all that matters.

Sounds like every dom Te.

 

[???]

I don't think many people believe in pure Laissez-faire capitalism

edit: And laissez-faire capitalism is certainly not the economist system of the U.S. We're a mixed capitalism system, but certainly not as left leaning as many European nations.

Oh I know. I'm only talking to the diehard capitalists that think socialism in all its forms is bad.

Ah, yes. If someone doesn't see it your way, they must be an asshole.

No, but it's pretty clear that being condescending and provoking is your modus operandi. *yawn*

 

[anticlimatic]

Capitalism also convince you that if you care more about people you loose sense of individuality but in reality this is good world for only 1% of people. All others are slaves. So I would ask you what is the point of individuality when you are enslaved by private corporations who don't care about mankind but only how they can earn more money?

I'm not.

If I'm part of a group of three, and two of the three vote to kill me and split my money between them because that's what's best for the democratic majority of 'the group,' that's a problem. More of a problem for me than one of them doing his own thing and not sharing it. I'll take the later every day, any day.

 

[Vendrah]

Just giving my A...

I do think that capitalism itself is not a religion, but some branches of it are indeed.
Some do have the blindly belief on the market - it will make everything perfect, fair, it will do the right choices and blah blah about it (except if it has a significant state on it, then the perfection suddenly ceases). Market is like the invisible hand of god making the most possible decisions ever and the most possible fairness. No doubt, that branch is a religion - the market religion.

There is an incredible symetry about market and state - both can be bad and can harm people lives. There are good states, there are bad states, and I would not be surprised if there are good markets or bad markets as well. And as some not have notice, if communism is bad, that doesnt make capitalism good, and if capitalism is bad, that doesnt make communism good. If the market is good, for believers the state is bad.

And finally, I would like to give a warning (a little bit off topic). Some of these religious market people in my country are defending to open the market the possibility to open jobs that pays $100/month ($1200 year) (US dollars) for a journey of 44 hours/week, some want even more. $250/month for 44 h/week is already a reality - including the state hiring at these conditions. Some of these people are incredible proud how much other peoples lives (the poor ones) should suck. They say that if the market says so thats the other people value (and as I stated before in other topic the conditions for meritocracy are not met. It is ironic and funny how Meritocracy Party is closer to the left than the right wing). It gets as ugly as that, so be careful...

 

[Lark]

If capitalism were a religion which one would it be most like?

 

[Earl Grey]

If capitalism were a religion which one would it be most like?

Any I can immediately think of. Cash in your virtues for good heaven time, and even if you have enough good credits, you even get to shun the morally bankrupt by claiming elevated moral richness! Even comes with the dehumanizing your fellows part!

 

[Coriolis]

Over a dozen posts of pointless bickering have been removed. Members who wish to have the thread remain open and to retain the ability to post in it are encouraged to include actual relevant content in their comments, and a modicum of courtesy.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Fundamentally Capitalism is a value/product based system but some of the variations can evidently turn into some kind of a cult-like mindset. The examples are numerous: textbook abuse of basic human rights for the greater good (more profit), accusing everyone unlike you of being a socialist (aka "infidel"), ignoring concrete facts if they don't fit into a doctrine or they are inconvenient (like problems with pollution or health), shameless elitism and overconfidence by many on the top, ... etc.

And finally, I would like to give a warning (a little bit off topic). Some of these religious market people in my country are defending to open the market the possibility to open jobs that pays $100/month ($1200 year) (US dollars) for a journey of 44 hours/week, some want even more. $250/month for 44 h/week is already a reality - including the state hiring at these conditions. Some of these people are incredible proud how much other peoples lives (the poor ones) should suck. They say that if the market says so thats the other people value (and as I stated before in other topic the conditions for meritocracy are not met. It is ironic and funny how Meritocracy Party is closer to the left than the right wing). It gets as ugly as that, so be careful...

This is not off topic at all. This is exactly a cult like behavior that is the core of this thread.


In my country the government just said that it will rise minimum wage for something like 8% and business circles say this is a scandalous, that this is populism ... etc. (and even with this minimum wage is still a bad joke) Personally I never understood how all these big business experts plan to have a developed market with consumers without purchasing power. So the logical conclusions is that all of this isn't really about market or exchange but power and control.