Incels.

[Pionart]

[MENTION=22257]Tater[/MENTION] I pity your soul.

 

[Tater]

[MENTION=22833]Legion[/MENTION]

 

[Deprecator]

First, you don't think people who are victims of violence are brave for speaking about that violence?

I don't think that the mere act of reporting a crime is necessarily correlated with bravery; if anything it should be considered the norm/ expectation.

Second, are these supposed to be comparable? A man not having sex = a woman being the victim of violence?

Not being able to have sex ever versus getting more sex than desired are opposite ends of the same spectrum, and they just happen to be correlated with gender. With either outcome, it is my understanding that there can be tremendous negative effects that are often very much comparable to one another, if not outright equivalent.

So is the pain a woman person would might experience by going their entire lives without sex equal to the pain a man person would have might experience if he they were violently raped?

It's difficult to say. Though as far as net-effects/ outcomes are concerned, do you really think it's outside the realm of possibility for a person to experience severe emotional distress/ depression/ loneliness because no one is interested in them romantically and they'll likely never be able to have sex... ever?

Maybe like, don't sleep with people until you can be sure they aren't full of shit about stuff like that?

Careful now... even gullible people don't deserve to be victim blamed.

"In late 2009 and early 2010, in at least two separate incidents at bars in Boise, Idaho, a "plastic surgeon" named "Berlyn Aussieahshowna" approached two different women and offered them free breast exams. The women consented to the exam, and one even exposed her breasts to the “doctor” in the washroom."

 

[Luminous]

Not being able to have sex ever versus getting more sex than desired are opposite ends of the same spectrum, and they just happen to be correlated with gender. With either outcome, it is my understanding that there can be tremendous negative effects that are often very much comparable to one another, if not outright equivalent.

Rape is not "getting more sex than desired." If someone violently stuck a baseball bat up your ass, would you consider that sex? Would it fulfill your sexual needs?

It's difficult to say. Though as far as net-effects/ outcomes are concerned, do you really think it's outside the realm of possibility for a person to experience severe emotional distress/ depression/ loneliness because no one is interested in them romantically and they'll likely never be able to have sex... ever?

You are assuming a lot about what I think.

I know that if sex and relationships are important to someone, going without them can definitely have severe emotional affects. I never argued it wouldn't. But going without them is not the same as or similar to being the victim of violence. Rape is violence. Rape is taking advantage of someone dishonestly.

 

[Agent Washington]

I don't think that the mere act of reporting a crime is necessarily correlated with bravery; if anything it should be considered the norm/ expectation.


Not being able to have sex ever versus getting more sex than desired are opposite ends of the same spectrum, and they just happen to be correlated with gender. With either outcome, it is my understanding that there can be tremendous negative effects that are often very much comparable to one another, if not outright equivalent.


It's difficult to say. Though as far as net-effects/ outcomes are concerned, do you really think it's outside the realm of possibility for a person to experience severe emotional distress/ depression/ loneliness because no one is interested in them romantically and they'll likely never be able to have sex... ever?


Careful now... even gullible people don't deserve to be victim blamed.

"In late 2009 and early 2010, in at least two separate incidents at bars in Boise, Idaho, a "plastic surgeon" named "Berlyn Aussieahshowna" approached two different women and offered them free breast exams. The women consented to the exam, and one even exposed her breasts to the “doctor” in the washroom."

Rape is not opposite ends of the spectrum with not having sex. There's a reason why it's called sexual assault. It is assault, it just happens to be sexual. Rape is violent in nature because it violates personal bodily autonomy. You're confusing unwanted sex with consensual sex when you call it "too much sex" and worse still, put it on the same spectrum as not getting enough CONSENSUAL sex. This kind of definition purposely muddles the water wrt consent.

The tongue-in-cheek commentary about that scam isn't even funny. Amazing how consent doesn't even seem to register with you. So now we know you're a rape apologist. Good job.

 

[Wunjo]

Explain: how is my ego inflated?



So, giving advice on moral matters constitutes limiting another's freedom?



It is not clear to me how the conclusion follows from the premises.

My answer is to obey the Will of God, because God is able to foresee all consequences.

Dunno, you really look like an archetypal possession here described by Jung. Keep your Wise Old Man in check maybe, for unconscious identification with an archetype is the basis of ego inflation.

You are not giving advice. Saying that something is a categorical imperative with the implication of an order, while also creating a perception of moral scorn while doing that, is not giving advice. If this is what you understand from "giving advice on moral matters", consult a therapist.

My answer is for everyone to follow their own Will, for there is nothing more godly.

Most of my arguments remain unanswered still, welp.

 

[Lark]

I think its a really, really toxic "movement", a lot of ill shit going on there, a lot.

Its also a trend that I dont think there are any redeeming features to or anything good can be made out of it. I dont even believe its one of those trends that prove valuable by prompting beneficent counter trends either.

Given the character of a lot of it I wonder if its got something to do with male maturation, there's a hell of a lot of things which are trending which strike me as being particularly adolescent, emotionally atavistic etc.

Swastika Night is a great bit of fiction which features a group of men coming to a similar conclusion about the society they live in, their society has emerged a couple of thousand years after a Nazi victory has segwayed into a bizarre misogyny. There's also a good book, non-fiction (maybe, its pretty Freudian) examining trends which fed into the rise of Nazism in Germany called Male Fantasies by Klaus Theweleit, its got parallels to some of the aspects of this incel trend.

For a long time now I think anti-social trends and self-absorption/obsessions have been growing. Whether its organic or being deliberately stimulated/fabricated by some monkey wrenching squad it definitely is just deleterious.

 

[Tilt]

Jesus is my bitch.

I wonder what kind of response you would get if you put that on a T-shirt.

@<a href="https://www.typologycentral.com/forums/members/22257.html" target="_blank">Tater</a> I pity your soul.

Let's work this one out, you guys...

Anyways, the incel culture is rather sad because a lot of it seems self-inflicted. People in developed countries seem to make the biggest issues out of self-inflicted BS.

 

[Pionart]

Dunno, you really look like an archetypal possession here described by Jung. Keep your Wise Old Man in check maybe, for unconscious identification with an archetype is the basis of ego inflation.

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what this means or how I'm doing it. Can you please provide further information?

You are not giving advice. Saying that something is a categorical imperative with the implication of an order, while also creating a perception of moral scorn while doing that, is not giving advice. If this is what you understand from "giving advice on moral matters", consult a therapist.

My answer is for everyone to follow their own Will, for there is nothing more godly.

Most of my arguments remain unanswered still, welp.

I don't really know what I'm supposed to say here.

I suggested overcoming the desire for non-marital sex, i.e. lust, with the implication that such an action is a sin and thus destructive. The only scorn I think I've shown was directed towards Dep for something different. And yes I do think alerting people to sin constitutes advice. I don't know why I would need to see a therapist for that.

So apparently one is supposed to follow their own Will (I'll mention for my own knowledge that there's a funny irony here, but only I will get the reference, so don't worry), but I don't really know what the alternative is in your view, or what limits are to be placed on this, perhaps "follow your own Will, unless to interfere with another's Will, unless their Will is interfering with another's Will, while that person's Will is not interfering with another's Will". Well, if my own approach goes against your approach, I probably disagree with it, though I just don't get what you're saying.

What is this Will that a person is meant to follow? What are the limitations to be placed upon following it?

 

[Tilt]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what this means or how I'm doing it. Can you please provide further information?



I don't really know what I'm supposed to say here.

I suggested overcoming the desire for non-marital sex, i.e. lust, with the implication that such an action is a sin and thus destructive. The only scorn I think I've shown was directed towards Dep for something different. And yes I do think alerting people to sin constitutes advice. I don't know why I would need to see a therapist for that.

So apparently one is supposed to follow their own Will (I'll mention for my own knowledge that there's a funny irony here, but only I will get the reference, so don't worry), but I don't really know what the alternative is in your view, or what limits are to be placed on this, perhaps "follow your own Will, unless to interfere with another's Will, unless their Will is interfering with another's Will, while that person's Will is not interfering with another's Will". Well, if my own approach goes against your approach, I probably disagree with it, though I just don't get what you're saying.

What is this Will that a person is meant to follow? What are the limitations to be placed upon following it?

Essentially, the premise is that many people don't think non-marital sex is a sin and a lot of your posts come off as "moral judgement" of people who engage in those activities. People have their own guidelines for morality. Only 3-5% of people wait until marriage to have sex (and even in that subset, a good chunk seem to rush it in order to have sex). The funny thing is that there are about 70% of Americans who identify as Christians, so there seems to be a huge disparity.

 

[Tilt]

I found this interesting... a story about one of the prominent leaders of the "love can wait" purity movement, Josh Harris. He was very outspoken about how to stay pure for your future spouse and live in Godly ways, but about a month away, he separated from his wife and stepped down as pastor.
Purity Expert Josh Harris Announces 'I am Not a Christian,' Apologizes to LGBT Community

 

[ceecee]

I found this interesting... a story about one of the prominent leaders of the "love can wait" purity movement, Josh Harris. He was very outspoken about how to stay pure for your future spouse and live in Godly ways, but about a month away, he separated from his wife and stepped down as pastor.
Purity Expert Josh Harris Announces 'I am Not a Christian,' Apologizes to LGBT Community

It's kind of like this guy.

A Pastor Who Wanted Women Executed for Abortions Was Arrested for Raping a Child | Hemant Mehta | Friendly Atheist | Patheos

The ones that preach the loudest often have a reason of their own for doing so.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I know Peterson’s a creepy creep but do you think someone like him can help incels overcome their malaise and self loathing? Seems like a lot of them could benefit from a hard kick in the ass.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

It's kind of like this guy.

A Pastor Who Wanted Women Executed for Abortions Was Arrested for Raping a Child | Hemant Mehta | Friendly Atheist | Patheos

The ones that preach the loudest often have a reason of their own for doing so.

These guys are a dime a dozen round my parts

Former Richmond pastor Geronimo Aguilar sentenced to 40 years in prison for sexually abusing children | WTVR.com

 

[ceecee]

I know Peterson’s a creepy creep but do you think someone like him can help incels overcome their malaise and self loathing? Seems like a lot of them could benefit from a hard kick in the ass.

Even Natalie thinks JP isn't entirely wrong when it comes to incels. I think the issue is that they aren't really able to extrapolate what is useful and what isn't when it comes to advice, even good advice.

reddit: the front page of the internet

Granted it's Reddit but it's worth a read even if you do need eye bleach afterwards.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think the issue is that they aren't really able to extrapolate what is useful and what isn't when it comes to advice, even good advice.

I guess the problem with incels speaks to our mental health system sucking total ass in the USA.

reddit: the front page of the internet

Granted it's Reddit but it's worth a read even if you do need eye bleach afterwards.

At least it's not 4chan.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

If there was one good thing to come out of incels, it was at least those 'virgin vs chad' memes. Some of them are pretty hilarious and seem to have gained some popularity among "normies"

Virgin vs Chad Meme Is Taking Over the Entire Internet

As one Tumblr user put it, “people taking virgin _____ and chad ________ memes completely serious on their face when the chad is supposed to be outrageously over the top and exaggerated for absurdist humor value is probably the only shit even funnier than virgin/chad memes.”

The virgin vs chad memes. - Album on Imgur

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Even Natalie thinks JP isn't entirely wrong when it comes to incels. I think the issue is that they aren't really able to extrapolate what is useful and what isn't when it comes to advice, even good advice.

reddit: the front page of the internet

Granted it's Reddit but it's worth a read even if you do need eye bleach afterwards.

Hey, a lot of Reddit sucks (even r/ChapoTraphouse kind of sucks... it's filled with tankie dipshits), but some of it is pretty good. I don't think I'm subscribed to any of the main subreddits.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Hey, a lot of Reddit sucks (even r/ChapoTraphouse kind of sucks... it's filled with tankie dipshits), but some of it is pretty good. I don't think I'm subscribed to any of the main subreddits.

I don't think it's quite the cesspool some think it is. There's some seedier communities there but most have been quarantined by now. If you avoid the political subreddits, there's actually a lot of great communities devoted to various hobbies and interests. I don't post but I often browse the subs for topics ranging from bass guitar to video games to philosophy. And of course the virgin/chad memes subreddit, but that's not an incel community, it's people who've transformed that meme into satire.

 

[Lark]

I don't think it's quite the cesspool some think it is. There's some seedier communities there but most have been quarantined by now. If you avoid the political subreddits, there's actually a lot of great communities devoted to various hobbies and interests. I don't post but I often browse the subs for topics ranging from bass guitar to video games to philosophy. And of course the virgin/chad memes subreddit, but that's not an incel community, it's people who've transformed that meme into satire.

I think its a cesspool, it and 4chan and 8chan too.

I know that Ceecee has been a cheerleader for Reddit in the past, I just think its terrible, good luck to anyone who has a different experience of the same. I also think its bulletin board style threads and posting are antiquated in the extreme too.