[Traditional Enneagram] Why do people mistype as 4 Sx when the descriptions sound so awful?

[Amberiat]

Amberiat, assumptions abound. You need to review your sign off signature, it's contradicting your message.

Do you have an actual argument?

 

[Lark]

A lot of people are awful though

 

[cascadeco]

I think it's still as simple as people not looking deeply into 4sx descriptions specifically. It's easy to mistype as a 4 if you just take a test or read more generic type 4 descriptions (minus any instinctual parts), and then it's easy to type as sx-dom if you read more generic sx descriptions and associate sx- with the more glamorized version of what it stands for. [Or maybe more accurately: the sometimes indirect implications that sx-last is all sorts of negative boring things that are terrible to be]. Too, with 4 specifically, an online psych forum is already going to draw a lot of the more lonely misfits, who almost all will identify with some of the core issues of a 4 to a degree.

Though I did mistype as 4 for a while, I never in my life considered sx dom -- most especially sx- as tied to 4. My reasons for the 4 mistype were that, while I never related to having a drive to be unique (which is funnily enough the main element of 4), I did relate to feeling different, something wrong, ashamed, envious. Though for a while when I first knew about enneagram I never considered 4 (due to not relating to the drama/ I'm-so-special element -- because I knew everyone felt that way in some way -- I ultimately landed on it for a number of years because ironically I delved a lot more into it and overanalyzed to the extent that I passed over the really crucial elements!!!! Which are not me - I have such a stronger urge to unite with people, not emphasize differences, and seek out common ground -- assuming I'm healthy, that is).

So I mean, I don't really understand why people would be drawn to 4sx specifically, but I do get why a lot of people would relate to what is written about 4 in general.

 

[mgbradsh]

Do you have an actual argument?

I think Novella was pointing out that you said some pretty unflattering things about 3 different types in your post, things that might be somewhat offensive to a large number of people, and you said them in the context of a signature that suggests we all seek truth in an unbiased manner.

It was probably more of an observation than an argument. I suspect Novella isn’t here to argue at all, maybe just be heard and understood.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

This is a sensitive topic because so many people type as or identify with the archetype of e4. I don't want this thread to be one conflict after another, so if it gets heated, I encourage everyone to pause, step back, and take further interactions elsewhere privately. Also, say sorry when you need to.

The thing about personality is that people mistake it for identity when in fact it is just a structure that runs in the background of who you are and better explains how you are. Any type can be original, unique, and creative, and everyone has pain that they identify with, and most people can relate to feeling inferior or wanting what they don't have, but none of these things are what type 4 is at the core.

4s cannot handle being like everyone else because it makes them feel insignificant. This is why they want to be "unique" or are attention seeking. They do not feel like they are anything unless they are actively individuating from those around them. They want to be differentiated and actually want to be misunderstood, even though it hurts, because that is what their entire identity is based on.

"People don't understand me."
"You wouldn't get it."
"No, that's not exactly it".
"You don't even know me."

It is this suffering that they are addicted to, and when that isn't present in an apparent way, they will find something to long for, something that they don't have in order to cling to this sense of lack and alienation because they are dependent upon being frustrated with current conditions (specifically in relation to their primary instinct). If they get to a place where they feel content, they lose the beauty of suffering and become like everyone else, which means that they lose their identity.

The sexual 4 needs frustration in their intimate connections and with their sexual appeal/energetic draw. This is why they idealize love, because as long as they imagine what it is that would "complete" them, no one will ever measure up for long and they can continue with their tragic dissatisfaction. That is why they are prone to push-pull dynamics and will end relationships only to draw the other back in. They long for the other when the other is away because they escape into their internal landscape of fantasy and idealize the other. When they are with the other, reality doesn't measure up to their fantasy and they get frustrated. In order to maintain that whole "Nobody understands me and I'll never have what I need!" thing, they may cause conflict just to heat things up, which can look like angry dramatic outbursts. This gets them the attention that they so crave and keeps the suffering going.

In reality, it's not nearly as glamorous a type as people think it is. To be fair, no type is glamorous, but no type is as misunderstood as e4, which honestly just makes all the 4s even more "satisfied" because it ensures the frustration of being misunderstood and gives them wiggle room to squirm away from any box with a label, allowing room for constant differentiation.

 

[Virtual ghost]

but no type is as misunderstood as e4

Very questionable claim.
Since they actually want to be misunderstood for the most part even if at the very core they are generally fairly simple people that rotate around their negative-controverisal image. Which they made up for the most part themselves to order to satisfy their own desires. Also just because you want to be misunderstood that doesn't mean that you are. Of course saying this is politically incorrect and it will hurt their feelings but in reality e4 really isn't that complicated when compared with other types.


While Sx 4 is just a 4 on "steroids" and everyone that is stuck in negativity will display Sx 4 traits for sure. The only real difference is that for actual Sx 4 world revolves about that kind of stuff all the time. Plus it is kinda trendy to be misunderstood.

 

[Agent Washington]

A lot of people are constantly individuating from others though.

I think... A lot of people gravitate towards those typings because it gives them a reason to not change.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

A lot of people are constantly individuating from others though.

I think... A lot of people gravitate towards those typings because it gives them a reason to not change.

I have an even deeper understanding of type 4 fixation now. I posted about it in another thread yesterday.

Sexual 4 is far from a pretty type though. I am allowed to say this because reasons.

 

[Maou]

Sp 4 mastertype! *dabs*

 

[Mind Maverick]

It's the most common mistype, and in my opinion the most unappealing type to be. Jealous. Angry. Competitive. Insecure. Dramatic. Emotionally unstable. Hot and cold..... etc etc etc.

So why do people so willingly type as sexual 4? Why would one want to claim all of those if they didn't have to?

Maybe they want to be mystical deepities? Maybe they honestly see themselves as such despite the negatives? Maybe they've read more appealing resources than you? Who knows...?

Though I'd be interested in knowing why the fuck people type me as Sx 4 until they actually get to know me and then realize I'm quite far from it.

 

[Agent Washington]

I have an even deeper understanding of type 4 fixation now. I posted about it in another thread yesterday.

Sexual 4 is far from a pretty type though. I am allowed to say this because reasons.

I can understand why you'd say that. But I think, the fact remains that all types, when normal to unhealthy, aren't exactly flattering descriptions. E.g. 7. Gut types have that viscereal thing going on, but look at 7. Addicts to worldly things as opposed to addicts towards trying to get an identity of sorts. Sure, we're the mental type, but being mental types just potentially means we delude ourselves a bit more than the others and pretend we know things others don't.

Though, I do think that type 4 sx can have that ugly side that nerds online in particular relate to, and like with MBTI, people have the tendency to go "that's just how I am" once typed a certain way, as opposed to using it as a tool to better themselves. Not that the second choice is necessarily a better one, it's just more... productive I guess. There's a certain attraction to staying the same.

I haven't read your post though, so I'm not sure which one you're talking about. Maybe I missed something essential.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I can understand why you'd say that. But I think, the fact remains that all types, when normal to unhealthy, aren't exactly flattering descriptions. E.g. 7. Gut types have that viscereal thing going on, but look at 7. Addicts to worldly things as opposed to addicts towards trying to get an identity of sorts. Sure, we're the mental type, but being mental types just potentially means we delude ourselves a bit more than the others and pretend we know things others don't.

Though, I do think that type 4 sx can have that ugly side that nerds online in particular relate to, and like with MBTI, people have the tendency to go "that's just how I am" once typed a certain way, as opposed to using it as a tool to better themselves. Not that the second choice is necessarily a better one, it's just more... productive I guess. There's a certain attraction to staying the same.

I haven't read your post though, so I'm not sure which one you're talking about. Maybe I missed something essential.

What you have missed is what most people in the typology community miss, and that is a proper understanding of the fixations in depth. I don't say that in a judgmental way toward you in particular.

There are a lot of good resources on the internet, but very few great resources. One has to go above and beyond to find the good stuff, and that takes time.

In short, if anyone thinks sexual 4 (or 4 period) is a glamorous type, then they are sorely mistaken. And yes, all types have their ugly side, but no type is glorified as much and as consistently as type 4.

Personally though, I still think most readily available descriptions of sexual 4 are mostly unflattering, often referring to intense outward anger, volatility, hateful competition, and hot and cold relationship games. So with that in mind, this is why I wonder why so many readily mistype as sexual 4.

 

[Agent Washington]

What you have missed is what most people in the typology community miss, and that is a proper understanding of the fixations in depth. I don't say that in a judgmental way toward you in particular.

There are a lot of good resources on the internet, but very few great resources. One has to go above and beyond to find the good stuff, and that takes time.

In short, if anyone thinks sexual 4 (or 4 period) is a glamorous type, then they are sorely mistaken. And yes, all types have their ugly side, but no type is glorified as much and as consistently as type 4.

Personally though, I still think most readily available descriptions of sexual 4 are mostly unflattering, often referring to intense outward anger, volatility, hateful competition, and hot and cold relationship games. So with that in mind, this is why I wonder why so many readily mistype as sexual 4.

I don't think it's a glamorous type, and enneatypes aren't really my forte.

I simply think it is convenient for many to type as sx 4. It's easier for them to act this way without having to take accountability. It's like the N type of MBTI. People mistype and glamorise a certain trait so that they have an excuse to think of themselves as different, rare, or special. And so that they don't have to work on bettering themselves. Not talking about people on this forum either. Just in general.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Is any type glamorous? Enneagram pretty much highlights negative, unhealthy mechanisms.

9 - The pushover escapist
8 - The sadist
7 - The escapist who can't take life seriously
6 - The needy, fearful dependent
5 - The weakling who can't take on the world
4 - The emotionally masochistic victim
3 - The walking success facade
2 - The manipulative strings attached giver
1 - The holier than thou moralist

How do you know they are mistyped, anyway?

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Is any type glamorous? Enneagram pretty much highlights negative, unhealthy mechanisms.

9 - The pushover escapist
8 - The sadist
7 - The escapist who can't take life seriously
6 - The needy, fearful dependent
5 - The weakling who can't take on the world
4 - The emotionally masochistic victim
3 - The walking success facade
2 - The manipulative strings attached giver
1 - The holier than thou moralist

How do you know they are mistyped, anyway?

I would "like" this but I guess you turned that feature off?

And I know most of them are mistyped because sexual 4 is a rare type and most self-proclaimed 4s are in fact not 4s at all, they just think they are because they misunderstand the type itself and think they must be one because they have feelings and feel different than other people and use the type to justify their pain.

(Likes were automatically disabled for this post too, hmmm...)

 

[Totenkindly]

Is any type glamorous? Enneagram pretty much highlights negative, unhealthy mechanisms.

9 - The pushover escapist
8 - The sadist
7 - The escapist who can't take life seriously
6 - The needy, fearful dependent
5 - The weakling who can't take on the world
4 - The emotionally masochistic victim
3 - The walking success facade
2 - The manipulative strings attached giver
1 - The holier than thou moralist

How do you know they are mistyped, anyway?

Weird. (Not your post.) Good list, which is why i wanted to say something (and Enneagram is organized around all those directions of integration/disintegration and has religious underpinnings, so of course it does include focus on a 'broken' end of spectrum) but yeah Likes are turned off. I wonder if my post will be missing the Like button.

EDIT: Why, yes. Yes it is missing.

Now my question is:
1. Did one of the mods fat-finger a key?
2. Is there a policy change to now remove Like buttons from new posts, that we haven't yet heard about?
3. Did a new patch fubar the Like utility or reset some setting?
Or some other nefarious reason?

(Maybe this forum is a Type 4 SX... its identity thrives on the push-pull of manufactured drama? Wheee!)

 

[Mind Maverick]

I would "like" this but I guess you turned that feature off?

And I know most of them are mistyped because sexual 4 is a rare type and most self-proclaimed 4s are in fact not 4s at all, they just think they are because they misunderstand the type itself and think they must be one because they have feelings and feel different than other people and use the type to justify their pain.

(Likes were automatically disabled for this post too, hmmm...)

Yeah, I've started disabling likes and also stopped liking posts. Not a fan of the feature. It's weird that likes were disabled for yours though.
Fair enough reason, although I suppose that's true of every type (misunderstand the type), albeit for different reasons (not about emotional pain, etc). I think others also mistype their peers for the same reason...lol, like I have seen people mistake my mood disorder symptoms for Sx E4 before, and it always kind of annoys me because in reality I despise the intensity of my emotions and am constantly seeking to escape from it, detach from it, control it, and so forth...or I / others suffer consequences if I get caught up in them. I find that I easily envy those who don't feel as intensely as I do, it's a fucking curse to me...but people come along and assume things or slap labels on me anyways based upon their limited understandings: "presence of intensity = drama king who wants attention and craves that intensity" and meanwhile I'm actually over here legitimately suffering from bipolar or bpd or whatever. But...people like their boxes and labels. Typology just gives a lot of people a tool to judge people faster or more presumptuously with. That's one thing I actually can't stand about it. It frequently removes the true "why" from the "what" they are observing by giving them preset configurations despite the fact that people are not always doing it for any of those quite limited options they are given. It's better to just think for yourself and ask questions, you get to know a person much better if you do...even though most people think they are learning to understand people better, but that's just because they are being given a list of traits they haven't yet explored while failing to consider the other ones outside of the system that they haven't. Yes, new things are presented...buuuut unfortunately (or fortunately, however you perceive it), human beings are more complex than a personality construct comprised of 9 generalized overviews of classifications.

---

Weird. (Not your post.) Good list, which is why i wanted to say something (and Enneagram is organized around all those directions of integration/disintegration and has religious underpinnings, so of course it does include focus on a 'broken' end of spectrum) but yeah Likes are turned off. I wonder if my post will be missing the Like button.

EDIT: Why, yes. Yes it is missing.

Now my question is:
1. Did one of the mods fat-finger a key?
2. Is there a policy change to now remove Like buttons from new posts, that we haven't yet heard about?
3. Did a new patch fubar the Like utility or reset some setting?
Or some other nefarious reason?

(Maybe this forum is a Type 4 SX... its identity thrives on the push-pull of manufactured drama? Wheee!)

I have no idea why it's disabled that way automatically for you guys. I guess perhaps it's some sort of error since you're quoting me? I don't know. Lmao the list of reasons and last comment, though.

Oh, yeah...honestly, Integration and "Health Level 1" might be the only real positives in the entire Enneagram system, then we wonder why we're all getting buttmad when we're mislabeled according to our own self-perceptions.

 

[Boogie man]

Multiple factors are at play. There is the age of the audience that is commonly attracted to online "self-discovery" personality forums. Hint: it's the age of developing a unique identity and of sexual development.
Then there is the top-down drip of shallow "teachings."

This guy, David Fauvre, Enneagram "teacher," types at Sx 4. Sexual. Image. "Hate / Competition." Sx 468 at that... He's as 9 as they come.

Seriously...

Him and Katherine Fauvre (who self-types at Sx 874 when her 3 is glaring: 'cold' business woman), two halves of the same coin, are endorsed by the Enneagram Institute - by the Enneagram lord and savior Russ Hudson himself. Russ self-types at 5w4 (he's 5w6 really..) with 458 tritype. See a pattern here?

Guess his heart fix. Right. It's type 2. The "5 who gives."

 

[Luminous]

Multiple factors are at play. There is the age of the audience that is commonly attracted to online "self-discovery" personality forums. Hint: it's the age of developing a unique identity and of sexual development.
Then there is the top-down drip of shallow "teachings."

This guy, David Fauvre, Enneagram "teacher," types at Sx 4. Sexual. Image. "Hate / Competition." Sx 468 at that... He's as 9 as they come.

Seriously...

Him and Katherine Fauvre (who self-types at Sx 874 when her 3 is glaring: 'cold' business woman), two halves of the same coin, are endorsed by the Enneagram Institute - by the Enneagram lord and savior Russ Hudson himself. Russ self-types at 5w4 (he's 5w6 really..) with 458 tritype. See a pattern here?

Guess his heart fix. Right. It's type 2. The "5 who gives."

I'm curious. Do you think visual typing is good method?

 

[Boogie man]

I'm curious. Do you think visual typing is good method?

You can make a thread on it if you want, though I don't see the relevance of your question to my post. My intent was to discuss why Sx 4 is often a mistype magnet - and I believe the greatest source of this stems from mistyped Enneagram authors and teachers.