Toxic Feminism

[Lark]

Because I forgot the forum was dying.

I wonder who wants that and why.

 

[Tilt]

I believe in the idea of equality but I think biological sexes are more complementary as opposed to innate equals. The differences in sex hormone distribution and sexual dimorphism contributes to certain subtle differences, on average. However, it doesn't mean one is better than the other.

That said, everyone should be entitled to all the same civil liberties.

 

[Lark]

I believe in the idea of equality but I think biological sexes are more complementary as opposed to innate equals. The differences in sex hormone distribution and sexual dimorphism contributes to certain subtle differences, on average. However, it doesn't mean one is better than the other.

That said, everyone should be entitled to all the same civil liberties.

Well, equality before the law is a given of individualism, male or female, to be honest.

There are sex differences, that's innate, although sex isnt the same thing as gender, which is more culturally determined, involves expectations about capabilities and who shouldnt or should work (outside the home) or be educated (beyond domestic duties etc.). So there's more to it than simply equality before the law, there are norms, mores, expectations etc.

Although, I dont think that equality needs to involve sameness and homogenizing, a lot of people seem to think it does, left and right, but I think that's a nightmare. I think the opposite in fact and some difference is a very good thing and deserves recognition instead. I also like some sorts of radical or "amazonian" women's liberation, which seek to practically transcend inequality or oppressions rather than entering a peal for rescue or rights.

There are some sorts of equality I support, mainly redistributions of wealth or responsibility, but it can be misunderstood terribly. Bad generalisations can be made on the back of an ill understood idea. Like saying a woman can do anything a man can do, any man cant necessarily do what another man can do, I cant lift the same as a champion weight lifter for instance. Individual differences are still the greatest whatever you do about group advantages or disadvantages.

 

[Tilt]

Well, equality before the law is a given of individualism, male or female, to be honest.

Although, I dont think that equality needs to involve sameness and homogenizing, a lot of people seem to think it does, left and right, but I think that's a nightmare. I think the opposite in fact and some difference is a very good thing and deserves recognition instead. I also like some sorts of radical or "amazonian" women's liberation, which seek to practically transcend inequality or oppressions rather than entering a peal for rescue or rights.

There are some sorts of equality I support, mainly redistributions of wealth or responsibility, but it can be misunderstood terribly.

This seems to be the issue that seems to come up a lot in feminism....conflating equal rights with sameness and homogeneity. But you described that distinction much more eloquently than I did. 😀

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I am an amazone with 2 healthy boobs (useless to say I am a feminist)

I just wanna say one thing (shutting on's mouth is a sign of submission they say) :

To be a real woman (and feel as such), no need to go and show them at church

(see the FEMEN as a good exemple of what I think is wrong).

I was quite focused on this problem years ago, I still feel concerned with women rights and will forever.

I feel more grounded so I don't bother that much ( ridding my own horse ).

I have known some men much more aware of feminism than women, so I don't feel in danger surrounded by men, nor do I feel protected.


If we wanna evolve, we'll have to open our minds and hearts, and not judge the books by their covers. Of course some men are a real danger, like some women are for themselves, their family, when they tell daughter all men are predators.

This shit is as dangerous as passing on the message "Women are stupid, can't drive, or cannot rule a business". For those of course I only wish one thing : they'll meet the right feminine force that will make them feel powerless.



RESPECT.

 

[Yuurei]

Well, equality before the law is a given of individualism, male or female, to be honest.

There are sex differences, that's innate, although sex isnt the same thing as gender, which is more culturally determined, involves expectations about capabilities and who shouldnt or should work (outside the home) or be educated (beyond domestic duties etc.). So there's more to it than simply equality before the law, there are norms, mores, expectations etc.

Although, I dont think that equality needs to involve sameness and homogenizing, a lot of people seem to think it does, left and right, but I think that's a nightmare. I think the opposite in fact and some difference is a very good thing and deserves recognition instead. I also like some sorts of radical or "amazonian" women's liberation, which seek to practically transcend inequality or oppressions rather than entering a peal for rescue or rights.

There are some sorts of equality I support, mainly redistributions of wealth or responsibility, but it can be misunderstood terribly. Bad generalisations can be made on the back of an ill understood idea. Like saying a woman can do anything a man can do, any man cant necessarily do what another man can do, I cant lift the same as a champion weight lifter for instance. Individual differences are still the greatest whatever you do about group advantages or disadvantages.

This reminds me of a common MRA/misogynist argument " Why should I have to watch what I say around women?! If they want to be treated "the same as everybody else than they should not expect me to use special wording around them."

Yeah, see "like everyone else" means with just a modicum of respect and dignity. You-any even remotely decent human being- would not make discriminatory or derogatory statements about ta person in their pretense.
But then I'm pretty sure they know that and are just being petulant.

 

[Lark]

This reminds me of a common MRA/misogynist argument " Why should I have to watch what I say around women?! If they want to be treated "the same as everybody else than they should not expect me to use special wording around them."

Yeah, see "like everyone else" means with just a modicum of respect and dignity. You-any even remotely decent human being- would not make discriminatory or derogatory statements about ta person in their pretense.
But then I'm pretty sure they know that and are just being petulant.

Well I think there's something to be said for mannerly conduct, that shouldnt be political, on the other hand sometimes political scenes or individuals have a highly stylised speech all of their own, its as complex or more than some other scenes or people talking "street", and I dont think anyone should be expected to school up on that.

That sort of stuff is bogus, at least I think so, if people are into that then grand but dont assume other people are going to share your interests or coerce them some how into doing so.

 

[Yuurei]

Well I think there's something to be said for mannerly conduct, that shouldnt be political, on the other hand sometimes political scenes or individuals have a highly stylised speech all of their own, its as complex or more than some other scenes or people talking "street", and I dont think anyone should be expected to school up on that.

That sort of stuff is bogus, at least I think so, if people are into that then grand but dont assume other people are going to share your interests or coerce them some how into doing so.

No, of course not. There is a big difference between learning all coded/special dialects and bitching about "all women are lazy C**** who should get back in the kitchen."

 

[Jaguar]

This reminds me of a common MRA/misogynist argument " Why should I have to watch what I say around women?! If they want to be treated "the same as everybody else than they should not expect me to use special wording around them."

Yeah, see "like everyone else" means with just a modicum of respect and dignity. You-any even remotely decent human being- would not make discriminatory or derogatory statements about ta person in their pretense.
But then I'm pretty sure they know that and are just being petulant.

The only people who have a problem when I drop an f-bomb in public are women. Some. But always the same gender. I have little time for changing up my vocabulary to coddle people just as I have no time for listening to ranting students on campuses yelling at their professors for saying something they don't want to hear rather than getting on with the business at hand.

 

[Yuurei]

The only people who have a problem when I drop an f-bomb in public are women. Some. But always the same gender. I have little time for changing up my vocabulary to coddle people just as I have no time for listening to ranting students on campuses yelling at their professors for saying something they don't want to hear rather than getting on with the business at hand.

Again, not what I fucking meant.

 

[Jaguar]

Again, not what I fucking meant.

Then say what you fucking meant. Having said that, my other post still stands. Should I pretend it's not true? No.

 

[Jaguar]

Still waiting.

Why should I have to watch what I say around women?! If they want to be treated "the same as everybody else than they should not expect me to use special wording around them."

I agree with whoever said it.

 

[ceecee]

Well I think there's something to be said for mannerly conduct

Of course. But it doesn't belong in a conversation about toxic feminism. All the claims of men needing to be men and men needing to act like men belong in conversations about and with....men. Men should be holding other men accountable when their conduct becomes problematic. Not women. But that's the very rare man who is able to be of service to other men consistently.

 

[Tilt]

The only people who have a problem when I drop an f-bomb in public are women. Some. But always the same gender. I have little time for changing up my vocabulary to coddle people just as I have no time for listening to ranting students on campuses yelling at their professors for saying something they don't want to hear rather than getting on with the business at hand.

On the flipside, I have gotten reprimanded on several occasions about saying f*** in public, because it was not lady-like of me. "Your face is way too pretty to talk like that. It's unbecoming." Usually from older women. Men tend to either be amused or shocked.

 

[Jaguar]

On the flipside, I have gotten reprimanded on several occasions about saying f*** in public, because it was not lady-like of me. "Your face is way too pretty to talk like that. It's unbecoming." Usually from older women. Men tend to either be amused or shocked.

Do these men have sticks up their ass? Fuck that.

Edit: Oh, older women. Sorry. lol.

 

[Lark]

No, of course not. There is a big difference between learning all coded/special dialects and bitching about "all women are lazy C**** who should get back in the kitchen."

Ha! What kind of dickhead gets on like that?!

 

[Tilt]

Ha! What kind of dickhead gets on like that?!

Usually super sexist men or tryhards who are trying to impress other men.

 

[Yuurei]

Usually super sexist men or tryhards who are trying to impress other men.

Yeah, this. Also r/niceguys.

 

[Deprecator]

Men should be holding other men accountable when their conduct becomes problematic. Not women.

How does this work? Freedoms, opportunity and liberty should should be gender neutral, but the process of 'holding others accountable' should be gender specific?

This type of 'accountability' reminds me of WWYD: *woman sees other woman abusing a guy*.... "Hmm, maybe you did something wrong?"

 

[Deprecator]

You mean, like the [url="https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/22/us/women-join-battle-on-all-male-draft.html']National Organization for Women[/url]?



This was back in 81, by the way.

If you want something more recent, there's this:

White house petition asks that women be required to register for selective service.

Some feminists, I should add, are not in favor of women being included in selective service, because they think that selective service should be abolished anyway.

It was an observation of relative frequency, not a claim that the proposal has never been brought up before. Whether it was at school or in online discussions, self-identified feminists seem far more focused on supposed wage gaps when compared to other issues like the draft.