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Toxic Feminism

When you think "feminism", what do you think of?


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MyINFJness

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What is the whole fearless warrior thing? It used to get condemned as a male fantasy at a time, back when feminists where more readily setting out a stand on being positively in favour of difference and talking about the greater empathy of women, an ethic of care etc. While its one sided perhaps, there's some basis for it in recent psychological research too. The male warrior versus female carer archetypes based on empathy that is. Although the fearless warrior thing is something that I've read feminists write about, it appeals to women and men, maybe its about courage, skill, strength, fitness or something, I remember reading about archetypes a long time ago and the idea of warrior-scholars or warrior-poets as archetypes and wondered why the "warrior" part was important and if it was equally weighted with the second part or not.
Hmmm . . . I find the archetype of the warrior, despite some firm truths about that persona, takes on a very individual flavor depending on who said warrior is. As a woman and an INFJ, I find my warrior self as someone capable of rising above my quirks, shortcomings and overwhelmed heart. As if this facet of myself could carry the uncertain, overwhelmed, self-defeated aspects of my personality over those sharp, jagged experiences. Rather than it being the face of my empathy, and I truly am saturated in empathy, it serves more as an armored vehicle in which my empathy remains safe and intact (just how I like it!) when I have to 'pull up my sleeves' for some not so easy work. Interesting wonderings . . .
 

Yuurei

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I find people who call themselves "Warriors"-whether because of disability or gender-to be very desperate and kind of pathetic. No one is a "warrior" anymore. They only exist in fantasy.
I also wonder what it wrong with just being themselves. I am both disabled and a woman and I handle it better than anyone I know but that's just called dealing with a situation the best that you can. I do not need to give myself some sort of cutesy nickname to prove anything.
 

Lark

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I find people who call themselves "Warriors"-whether because of disability or gender-to be very desperate and kind of pathetic. No one is a "warrior" anymore. They only exist in fantasy.
I also wonder what it wrong with just being themselves. I am both disabled and a woman and I handle it better than anyone I know but that's just called dealing with a situation the best that you can. I do not need to give myself some sort of cutesy nickname to prove anything.

Did you ever see in the black and white Seven Samurai the guy who makes a speech about the difference between being a great warrior and a great farmer? Its kind of like this.
 

Luminous

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I find people who call themselves "Warriors"-whether because of disability or gender-to be very desperate and kind of pathetic. No one is a "warrior" anymore. They only exist in fantasy.
I also wonder what it wrong with just being themselves. I am both disabled and a woman and I handle it better than anyone I know but that's just called dealing with a situation the best that you can. I do not need to give myself some sort of cutesy nickname to prove anything.

They don't mean it literally.

It's taking power they either never claimed or it's taking it back. It's empowerment.
 

Yuurei

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Did you ever see in the black and white Seven Samurai the guy who makes a speech about the difference between being a great warrior and a great farmer? Its kind of like this.

I have not. Google couldn’t find it for me. Do you recall off-hand?

They don't mean it literally.

It's taking power they either never claimed or it's taking it back. It's empowerment.

It’s entitlement. Just saying you are a warrior while ,doing nothing to back it up.

The last time I heard this was on a discussion about...I don’t remember, something about healthcare or medication.
One woman was bitching about how she had ‘sooo much worse’ as tends to happens in those kinds of discussions, of course she got told off and she responded “ I have chronic pain and I am a fucking warrior!”

And those are often the sort of people I hear these claims from; entitled, selfish, yuppy women who think that merely having some problem makes them a warrior, regardless of how they deal with it-or don’t- they have a lot of support and encouragement and are frequently told how great they are even though they do nothing to earn it.
 

Coriolis

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I'm not equating equality with sameness, that was my point I'm afraid.
You seem to be criticising the notion of equating the two, even though I don't see anyone doing it, which makes it a bit of a strawman.
 

Lark

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I have not. Google couldn’t find it for me. Do you recall off-hand?

I dont have a clip saved or anything, the guy basically tells the locals that honourable farmers live lives of courage too, a different sort.

- - - Updated - - -

You seem to be criticising the notion of equating the two, even though I don't see anyone doing it, which makes it a bit of a strawman.

Hmm.
 

Yuurei

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I dont have a clip saved or anything, the guy basically tells the locals that honourable farmers live lives of courage too, a different sort.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm.

Ah. That is a valid point and I agree. When people try to convince everyone that they are ‘ a warrior’ to me it just says that they think they have to compare themselves to something better than what they are which to me is like an admission that they aren’t good enough.
 

yeghor

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Someone started a thread on this that was kind of nonsensical so I thought I'd start a real one.

How do you feel about feminism? Are you for it, opposed or some other opinion? Maybe this has been talked about before but I was hoping to get some kind of vote.

I will provide my opinion. I have always been a person who believed strongly in equality. I have always been a supporter of women's progression and success in the workplace. I've been the same way with my kids. Those who know me IRL would attest to my actions which back up these words. I have always thought that discrimination in the workplace on anything other than performance is dysfunctional. I have always thought you should raise girls with an eye towards inspiring them to reach for the stars.

This all being said, when the word "feminism" comes up, I find myself having a strongly negative emotional reaction. I think it's a word that many people interpret differently and that many women appear blind towards the destructive factions involved. This is going to sound bad but when I think of the word, I think of some crazy bitch with a chip on her shoulder talking about misogyny, mansplaining, gaslighting, the patriarchy or some other drivel. I think about all the highly accomplished women in the world that don't feel the need to say they had to work twice as hard to get where they did and why the ones who aren't accomplishing things and complain in this way don't make something of themselves rather than provide excuses as to why they aren't able to. I don't think I would have noticed or cared about this if I hadn't been targeted by some women who have had a chip on their shoulder over the years or seen others targeted unfairly - characterized negatively because of they are white or male or made some money or express their opinions in a confident way.

What bothers me the most has been those that silently watched behind the scenes, doing nothing while privately encouraging the crazy bitches that have attacked men unfairly or even been abusive towards them. I'm not sure I would have even have believed these things would happen if I hadn't experienced it firsthand because I am perhaps too much of an idealist. There is the small proportion of spoiled millennials that feel the world owes them a living and resent those who are in power - perhaps providing some convenient excuse as to why they are disadvantaged when maybe they should get off their ass and do something productive. Then there are those that lack the willpower, tenacity, grit or emotional intelligence to progress - all the while blaming their failings on someone else.

I wonder if women in general realize just how negative of a meaning this word has to a lot of men. I might be an aberration but I'm completely turned off. I wonder if women in general think it matters that people like me, who would otherwise be supporters, have been turned off for good by the dysfunctional extremists that many unwitting women appear to support.

I'm only one person. Maybe my experience is an aberration.

The radical/extreme version of feminism you are complaining about corresponds to SP-demeanored women, i.e. ESTPs, ESFPs, ISFPs, and ISTPs. This demeanor by nature is inclined towards antisocial behaviour, as they have high levels of Se (aggression) in their type. That also means their levels of conscientousness is low so they will have lower regard for what is actually right or wrong.

The current socio-political climate unfortunately is lenient toward antisocial behaviour in women when the recipient is men, under the pretense of protecting women's rights, and it is extremely unrelentful and unsympathetic of similar demeanor when it comes from men, whereas the system should instead treat both type of antisocial behaviour in a same manner regardless of gender.

Unfortunately, women have an empathic reflex to side with other women rather than questioning the behaviour, which enables them and exacerbates the problem, and allows opportunistic women to take advantage of this biased environment.

The SP-demeanored women I mentioned could be likened to these women:

Switchblade Sisters
 

yeghor

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...

I debated which section to post this in. I hope it's OK in this subforum. Mods can move it if they think it should go somewhere else. I just thought that, given the nature of the topic, it wouldn't be a good fit for the Arts and Entertainment subforum.

I posted some of my own criticisms of the film, positive and negative, in post #12, on page 2 of this thread, if anyone is interested in reading them.

I've marked some relevant points below from the MRA video quoted above, regarding how antisocial women are taking advantage of feminism-led matriarchal society and legal system.

21:30 an example to antisocial SP women and how they treat men.

42:40 opportunistic antisocial women tricking their boyfriends/men into fatherhood and then using the child as a bargaining chip to exercise control, manipulating the kid against the father, how the legal system was biased to side with the mother

55:05 Fatherhood options flowchart

58:45 Tv show advocating tricking husbands into fatherhood against their consent

Personally I believe if a men is tricked into fathering a child, he should have the option to disown the child and the state should pay for the alimony or if the father wants to be a part of the child's life, then he should share the upbringing costs proportionate to the visitation rights he's granted.

1:00:11 Case of Texan man finding out he's not the father of 5 children he raised as his kids, i.e. paternity fraud.

1:05:15 Aggressive (i.e. antisocial) women being ignored by the legal system.

1:07:15 Domestic violence shelters refusing to help victimized men (despite men being the recipient of domestic violence 43% of the time according to the documentary)

1:10:00 Erin Pizzey, a level-headed feminist sympathetic to men's plight as well, due to which has been put on crosshairs by radical feminists (she claims 62% of the women first 100 women that took shelter in her refuge were just as violent i.e. antisocial as men)

1:31:30 Female lecturer being protested by feminists in her class for trying to bring the feminist movement under spotlight, i.e. Cancel culture (they even triggered a false fire alarm to cancel one event in the campus)

1:35:00 More examples to antisocial SP women and how they treat men.

1:38:55 guy says there a good people in the feminist movement but not in the radical feminist movement and the latter is built on hate.

1:42:30 Man saying radical feminists opposing automatic paternity testing at birth

1:45:36 Sentencing disparity between men and women committing similar crimes (feminism keeping mum over this betrays the movement's sexism and ingenuity)

Eventually it all boils down to antisocial behavior as the root cause, and female antisocial behaviour is downplayed/tolerated to exploit the system in favor of women (including the antisocial ones). The problem is, if you allow antisocial people to influence and infiltrate the system, they will by nature try to fuck it up to benefit themselves. It is primarily the women that should call out antisocial women inside the feminist movement, for destructive action to stop and constructive progress to be made.
 

highlander

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The radical/extreme version of feminism you are complaining about corresponds to SP-demeanored women, i.e. ESTPs, ESFPs, ISFPs, and ISTPs. This demeanor by nature is inclined towards antisocial behaviour, as they have high levels of Se (aggression) in their type. That also means their levels of conscientousness is low so they will have lower regard for what is actually right or wrong.

The current socio-political climate unfortunately is lenient toward antisocial behaviour in women when the recipient is men, under the pretense of protecting women's rights, and it is extremely unrelentful and unsympathetic of similar demeanor when it comes from men, whereas the system should instead treat both type of antisocial behaviour in a same manner regardless of gender.

Unfortunately, women have an empathic reflex to side with other women rather than questioning the behaviour, which enables them and exacerbates the problem, and allows opportunistic women to take advantage of this biased environment.

The SP-demeanored women I mentioned could be likened to these women:

Switchblade Sisters
It isn't limited to them. We had a member here years ago, Salome - that was a really horrible person. She was an NT.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I think she would probably be much mellower today. I think we were more alike than she might think. She said some things about me that pissed off but I think she's probably been through a lot of shit and I thought that even then.

I mean I was more aggro in those days, too. Mostly I've mellowed out and lately I've tried to avoid conversations that push me in the opposite direction.
 

yeghor

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You should at least read her posts rather than go by that picture which is probably not even her.

It's not the picture that I am using, it's her enneagram type and instinctual variant that she put in there if that is the member you guys are referring to. As for her posts, her username doesn't come up in search, so can you link a most descriptive post of her?
 

yeghor

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Another enneagram 5 with Sx instinct identifying with Salome.


So Salome was a man basher than? Sounds like a radical feminist.


Lady X says Pam from True Blood reminds her of Salome and that she likes the Pam character. Pam's not an INTJ that's for sure. Interesting that Lady X's tritype is 784 and her instinctual variant is Sx (sexual) too. Lady X was probably an ESFP rather than an ENFP.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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It's not the picture that I am using, it's her enneagram type and instinctual variant that she put in there if that is the member you guys are referring to. As for her posts, her username doesn't come up in search, so can you link a most descriptive post of her?
Put in effort when forming your ideas. I'm sure you can figure out some way to dig up her old posts.
 
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