DiscoBiscuit
Meat Tornado
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2009
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- 8w9
1. She still got further than most of the men I know in my daily life. Most dudes don't even volunteer to try, not just for seals--but for the military in general. Some do and then don't make the cut. I've heard some of the lamest excuses in the world for not trying--like "I don't do well with people telling me what to do" and "I just couldn't lose the 5 lbs I needed to lose to enlist" and other BS excuses. She's more badass than most normal civilian guys who haven't done a lick of trying in that department. It's easy to sit back and criticize a woman for trying and failing... but when men out there haven't even tried themselves, I'd say it's bullshit to talk any shit. And even those that do, no man gets booed and looked down upon in such a snobbish manner when they cannot complete the training. Men have a far from 100% completion in NORMAL military training, and less in special ops like the seals. So why all the hate and anger that she failed? If it truly is biology, you wouldn't be so fired up about it--it would work itself out... no woman will finish the training, end of story, if biology is truly the major factor at play here. She is not the first person to drop out of SEALs training sessions... She is just the first of many women who will try.
2. We're all taught from a young age it's better to try and fail than to not try at all--so I don't see why it's 'fiction' that she tried her best, but knew her limits. It's a powerful thing to know your limits. She had a lot of pressure on her, and she made the best decision for her body and life. That's a mature, adult thing to do. I would expect that from any good soldier.
3. I really don't understand the snobby attitude about all of it. You're against women in combat roles, we get it. But as a woman who has done combat roles, talking to a man who has not, I can guarantee you I haven't ever once snubbed my nose at any man or woman who couldn't make the cut on any job (civilian or military) based on their gender alone, but rather the merit of their character. I'll always applaud someone trying and failing before I applaud someone backseat driving and monday quarterbacking thinking they know wtf they're talking about. I do believe biology plays a factor in situations like these--but I do not believe in stopping anyone from trying their best. If a rare woman with the ability to do this job comes along, I don't believe in limiting her because 'most' women couldn't. I don't see the seals lowering their standards for the sake of a woman anytime soon. If a woman passes, it'll be because she was a total badass.. like the men who pass.
4. Men seem super protective of jobs they don't ever do. Unless you were a seal yourself (forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe you don't have military service yourself) I really don't see your opinion counting as much as those who do the jobs themselves. They let her try out. The military saw fit to bring that barrier down. I don't see why people who don't even DO anything in that realm are suddenly up in arms. If you don't like it..Feel free to join, work your way up the ranks, and get that decision changed. But you'll have quite a few women doing the same in the process. And I think, honestly, your time and talents are better suited elsewhere.
Was doing that on phone and couldn't get across what I wanted to. Was also a little drunk. Here is the important part of the article I wanted you to see.
In 2012, when the issue wasn’t even special ops but just women in combat, Marine Capt. Katie Petronio published a powerful essay entitled, “Get Over it; We Are Not All Created Equal.†She knew what she was talking about: Her body was broken by two combat deployments. Due to the time she spent in full combat load, she suffered numerous nerve damage and physical problems. “It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions.†For Petronio, that included permanent infertility, which she blames on her deployment.
I can say with 100 percent assurance that despite my accomplishments, there is no way I could endure the physical demands of the infantrymen whom I worked beside as their combat load and constant deployment cycle would leave me facing medical separation long before the option of retirement. I understand that everyone is affected differently; however, I am confident that should the Marine Corps attempt to fully integrate women into the infantry, we as an institution are going to experience a colossal increase in crippling and career-ending medical conditions for females.
Both as a victim of the concept of an egalitarian military and a combat veteran, Petronio notes the non-gender discrimination within the Corps:
Marines who can run first-class physical fitness tests and who have superior [occupational] proficiency are separated from the Service if they do not meet the Marine Corps’ height and weight standards. Further, tall Marines are restricted from flying specific platforms, and color blind Marines are faced with similar restrictions. We recognize differences in mental capabilities of Marines when we administer the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery and use the results to eliminate/open specific fields.
In fact, a Marine Corps evaluation two years ago showed that all-male units greatly outperformed mixed-gender units in just about every capacity. The women performed their tasks more slowly, fired weapons with less accuracy, and sustained far more injuries during training than their male counterparts.
It’s not condescending so say that civilians don’t understand combat. Quite the opposite; it is condescending for them to pretend they do. Just as it would be condescending for a soldier to pretend to be an expert in theoretical physics, scratch out a particle accelerator on paper, and demand it be built. That women are demonstrably weaker, more breakable, have drastically less lung capacity, and even shoot less accurately—it’s all simply ignored.
If it continues to be, in favor of opening up these elite forces in the name of gender equality, the military risks lowering standards and ultimately, putting lives on the line.