[Type 7] The Wisdom of the Enneagram Seven

[Starry]

lol it's not really that relevant. you know i'll reach and contort my whole body to make references to whatever music i'm into at the time.

No quarter.

 

[indra]

No quarter.

 

[Avocado]

NF male is a shitty lot... Bring it in

What does 'no quarter' mean...that sounds super badass I might start using that phrase myself...

I've stopped thinking about the greater good. Now, all I ask is "what's in it for me?" After all, nice guys finish last. I have to dominate if I am to succeed in life. If I am to win at this game called life, there has to be losers. I will not be that loser. That said, I ruin the lives of people who fuck with me. Get in the way of what I deserve, and I'll make you wish you were never born!

 

[Starry]

Thanks Starry! I know many people here may shy away from revealing anything more personal than superficial pleasantries, so I didn't want to poke and prod without first checking in. It actually wasn't until a few members brought it to my attention that I do tend to dive deep into the emotions of others if given the opportunity to do so, that I was even aware I did that Thing is, I don't think I do this specifically to get to know that particular individual more, though that is a plus, but I find emotion the stuff of magic, so learning more of its intricacies and nuances through exploring not only myself, but others as well, continues to lure me in.

As for the Ne barrier, no further explanation is necessary, I totally get what you mean by that now. Ne is a fun place to be indeed. Usually my mind will take me to far better places when my external environment gets too droll. Thanks to this, people not only thought my jokes were bizarre, but I also burst out laughing to myself because of a passing imagination, usually involving the environment around me, and whoopdie do, more strange faces pointed towards me now. I tended to escape to this place out of boredom usually, but other times, to emotionally heal. Over time, I had built this entire environment in my head, landscape, creatures, all cast below moonlight, and that would be my refuge where I sit, in my mind, until all is right with the world again. I think with all this isolation and time to myself with my emotions, is why I sometimes look into INFP as a potential typing. Heck, I identify with the Fi subtype more than the Ne subtype for IEE too!

I definitely remember some incidences between the ages of like 8 - 13 or so where something ENFP that I did rubbed some other kid the wrong way or basically opened a door for them to something they wanted to exploit in me... But the Ne barrier that I was attempting to describe protects you from that...there's a million ways available to me to change what I imagine actually occurred or forget something like that very soon after it had occurred... which I assume must intimidate people because it must create the illusion that I'm not backing off or down when in reality I just no longer knew I had been insulted. <-This is different from how I am today having earned a hell of a wing...but when I was younger I think being 100% positive and excited and interested no matter what served as both an offense and defense in the world of young shitheads without me possessing any awareness of it. My life didn't go to shit until around age 19

Actually, question I just thought of, not sure where this came from, but I presume a soreness still lingers regarding people not taking your word for anything other than comical relief, which is why those words of your high school friend stood out to you so much and still hold enough weight for you to keep it shallow in memory to bring up, but is this something that is hurtful not necessarily because of how people see you, but because of how you see yourself? Well, perhaps how you saw yourself back then. You may have come to terms with this area these days, but are you ever taken immediately back to those precise emotions when someone says something to you, that you feel is a reminder alluding to that period in your life? So, in a way, it's almost like you can't escape this past because it keeps surfacing through these reminders. Having such emotional histories, I would imagine, may be confusing as I feel you are confident in yourself these days, and it shows on the forum but then you ask yourself, why would this pop up if it no longer affects me as it once did, and this disjointed parallel between two versions of you sits at this intersection.

That story has more of a haunting quality for me...like a mystery I fear I'll never solve. I mean, if my Mom thought it was a good thing I could trust it was a good thing. I often use the word "Kool Aid" in the same sentence with my Mom...but god damn she knows people...she understands "the masses"...and knows the sign and symbol language...(it is in part the fact that I don't know the sign and symbol language and that scares me that I had to become the court jester). I think my Mom even said to me that I was being recognized for an actual gift/talent. My friend just called into question for me in an ongoing way... is this my only gift talent? Why are my other qualities that I think are gifts not recognized in this hell? How the fuck did I end up here? This is a mistake...

This doesn't mean I don't understand what you are asking though... My current concern is that I'm not focusing enough on gaining people's approval...I'm kinda wanting people to help me emotionally understand why this would be a good thing to do if it is a good thing to do...I suspect it must be a little bit. What I'm getting at is in general I don't really give a fuck how someone sees me. It depends on how attached and invested I am in the other person... and then it becomes a little tricky because if I care about another person I do not want to control them...I want them to have the freedom to form their own opinions of me independently...and yet at the same time if their opinion of me is so far out of alignment with the person I know I am...especially the qualities I take pride in...then how could I be close to them? <-so that is the dance I do.

Ugh...that rollercoaster just went off the rails Feel free to say Dreamer, fuck off with your crazy assumptions haha.

I did not think this

 

[cascadeco]

7s begin Life believing everyone already has everyone else's approval. We are born loving everyone and believe everyone loves us in return. We believe everyone has something to offer you just need to discover what it is. And we were not given the Life memo regarding all the fucked-up people and fucked-up things that were going to try and take all of that happiness away from us each and every minute of each and every day.

This is so fascinating, as to the bolded... do/did you apply the same belief to everyone else, ie looking at any other random person and believing they are/were approved by everyone? It's so interesting to me, precisely because I have difficulty comprehending it. I may be opposite this, in that I never believed I was automatically 'approved of' or that anyone was or is... I always saw so much disapproval and 'meanness' from others and it caused me great issues as a pre-teen (immediately at the tail end of grade school I went 100% inwards, as that's when everyone suddenly became 'mean'). I don't recall ever *believing* what you describe, though. I do know I was open and trusting as a very young child, and then that dissolved once at the end of grade school.

Anyway sorry for the derail, I just wanted to say this really struck me as both interesting and something I have a hard time really understanding.

 

[Starry]

I've stopped thinking about the greater good. Now, all I ask is "what's in it for me?" After all, nice guys finish last. I have to dominate if I am to succeed in life. If I am to win at this game called life, there has to be losers. I will not be that loser. That said, I ruin the lives of people who fuck with me. Get in the way of what I deserve, and I'll make you wish you were never born!

The sad thing is I can't find a single reason to discourage you from this. I have long since started to suspect this might be the only way to be a success here and so I say go for it. Maybe let's get you a new wardrobe and some contacts.

Oh...and we get it now...you don't need to speak about it but rather keep it all hidden behind the new wardrobe.

 

[Starry]

haha I love that you put this in here indra

 

[Starry]

This is so fascinating, as to the bolded... do/did you apply the same belief to everyone else, ie looking at any other random person and believing they are/were approved by everyone? It's so interesting to me, precisely because I have difficulty comprehending it. I may be opposite this, in that I never believed I was automatically 'approved of' or that anyone was or is... I always saw so much disapproval and 'meanness' from others and it caused me great issues as a pre-teen (immediately at the tail end of grade school I went 100% inwards, as that's when everyone suddenly became 'mean'). I don't recall ever *believing* what you describe, though. I do know I was open and trusting as a very young child, and then that dissolved once at the end of grade school.

Anyway sorry for the derail, I just wanted to say this really struck me as both interesting and something I have a hard time really understanding.

Yah...no I mean that. I was the happiest thing in the universe... No one ever believes them but my parents said I only cried once from when I was born to age 2...I smiled non stop. From my earliest memory...I just thought everyone was wonderful.

 

[cascadeco]

Yah...no I mean that. I was the happiest thing in the universe... No one ever believes them but my parents said I only cried once from when I was born to age 2...I smiled non stop. From my earliest memory...I just thought everyone was wonderful.

That's cool. I don't remember much of anything prior to age 4 or so, but know I was a colicky baby for a month or so in my first year (!), and as a toddler was very friendly and would go up to strangers and talk, apparently. But I don't recall ever thinking everyone was wonderful. Must be nice...but I fully appreciate this thread and understand there's nothing inherently rosy about being a 7.

 

[Avocado]

The sad thing is I can't find a single reason to discourage you from this. I have long since started to suspect this might be the only way to be a success here and so I say go for it. Maybe let's get you a new wardrobe and some contacts.

Oh...and we get it now...you don't need to speak about it but rather keep it all hidden behind the new wardrobe.

Exactly. If you have a "good heart" and always look out for others, you gain no power nor wealth, and change nothing. People try to blackmail me all the time, but I find their dirt and let them know we have mutually assured destruction. All is fair in war. Also, I've found it best to always expect the worst of people. We are all selfish little bastards. I still can create a friendly facade if I need to, though. I use it to learn everybody's frailties, which I record. I am always prepared to attack what you care about most, once I consult my book of pain. Most people have one thing they find so obscene and out of touch with their "morality" that if it is shown to them, it will cripple them for a long time and show them that when the chips are down, their "values" are based on nothing. Once in a blue moon, I think about other's well-being, but I'm sure to snap my wrist with a rubber band when I do...lest I revert.

 

[five sounds]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] that fall is such a hard one. Realizing not everyone likes everyone. I don't know when i really began to know this, but I'm quite sure i was behind the curve, and i know it fucked with me bad. It still does. I honestly don't even understand how people can be so critical of even their closest friends or a stranger they know nothing about. Whatever, the otherworld has me and I'm content to just get by while I'm here, most of the time.

 

[Avocado]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] that fall is such a hard one. Realizing not everyone likes everyone. I don't know when I really began to know this, but I'm quite sure I was behind the curve, and I know it fucked with me bad. It still does. I honestly don't even understand how people can be so critical of even their closest friends or a stranger they know nothing about. Whatever, the otherworld has me and I'm content to just get by while I'm here, most of the time.

You have to learn what one's deepest vulnerability is if you are to properly exploit it.

 

[Starry]

That's cool. I don't remember much of anything prior to age 4 or so, but know I was a colicky baby for a month or so in my first year (!), and as a toddler was very friendly and would go up to strangers and talk, apparently. But I don't recall ever thinking everyone was wonderful.

haha that is so cute cascade. I can totally see a little soc dom doing that.

Must be nice...but I fully appreciate this thread and understand there's nothing inherently rosy about being a 7.

I've been trying to go through and read all my posts on 7 that don't appear in this thread... And ^this reminded me of...



this.

Yes, life is so easy...until suddenly...it becomes hard.

thanks cascade.

 

[Starry]

Exactly. If you have a "good heart" and always look out for others, you gain no power nor wealth, and change nothing. People try to blackmail me all the time, but I find their dirt and let them know we have mutually assured destruction. All is fair in war. Also, I've found it best to always expect the worst of people. We are all selfish little bastards. I still can create a friendly facade if I need to, though. I use it to learn everybody's frailties, which I record. I am always prepared to attack what you care about most, once I consult my book of pain. Most people have one thing they find so obscene and out of touch with their "morality" that if it is shown to them, it will cripple them for a long time and show them that when the chips are down, their "values" are based on nothing. Once in a blue moon, I think about other's well-being, but I'm sure to snap my wrist with a rubber band when I do...lest I revert.

What is your goal in all of this? What is your personal end point for having done all this work?
I hope you do not limit yourself now. There are plenty of NF males that have gone before you that you can look to for your guide.

 

[Avocado]

What is your goal in all of this? What is your personal end point for having done all this work?
I hope you do not limit yourself now. There are plenty of NF males that have gone before you that you can look to for your guide.

I have been taken advantage of far too long. I will rise to the top and be able to enjoy all the world has to offer. Travel, food, entertainment, and the right to die happy are all within grasp. I will not compromise for anybody.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] that fall is such a hard one. Realizing not everyone likes everyone. I don't know when i really began to know this, but I'm quite sure i was behind the curve, and i know it fucked with me bad. It still does. I honestly don't even understand how people can be so critical of even their closest friends or a stranger they know nothing about. Whatever, the otherworld has me and I'm content to just get by while I'm here, most of the time.

I think the fall is a hard one because it is one we experience over and over again due to The Forgetting. After we truly catch on to the fact the world is nothing like we thought it was we still can't let go and start placing all of our bets on The Future. We can endure this now because The Future will come through for us. The final descent is when The Future fails to produce even a hint of the people and planet we knew was supposed to be here.

I can handle all the daily shit...but I think as a 7 and sx dom I've become far too people traumatized...like it really is unclear to me right now how much more disappointment I can take and yes I'm factoring in all my strength and then some because I'm a 7. And so what? I'm going to be clown dancing my way through the rest of my life now to pass out from under people's approval? No. I think I'm going to go the crazy, shanty lady living alone on the top of a mountain route

 

[Starry]

I have been taken advantage of far too long. I will rise to the top and be able to enjoy all the world has to offer. Travel, food, entertainment, and the right to die happy are all within grasp. I will not compromise for anybody.

I'm going to become a crazy shanty lady.

 

[Avocado]

I'm going to become a crazy shanty lady.

Just remember nobody but you can bring you happiness. Others will disappoint you every time. Rather than advancing mediocrity by advancing the weak over the strong, strive to become the mightiest yourself and forget about the rest.

 

[five sounds]

I think the fall is a hard one because it is one we experience over and over again due to The Forgetting. After we truly catch on to the fact the world is nothing like we thought it was we still can't let go and start placing all of our bets on The Future. We can endure this now because The Future will come through for us. The final descent is when The Future fails to produce even a hint of the people and planet we knew was supposed to be here.

I can handle all the daily shit...but I think as a 7 and sx dom I've become far too people traumatized...like it really is unclear to me right now how much more disappointment I can take and yes I'm factoring in all my strength and then some because I'm a 7. And so what? I'm going to be clown dancing my way through the rest of my life now to pass out from under people's approval? No. I think I'm going to go the crazy, shanty lady living alone on the top of a mountain route

Reminds me of what we talked about with our jobs. If I can know im making a positive impact on people (especially young people cuz future and also less approval-dependant) I think i can tap dance my way through what I need to and just do my best to keep my personal bubble as weird and disconnected from the real world as possible. Witnessing the fruits of my talents is better than what anyone can show me.

 

[Starry]

Just remember nobody but you can bring you happiness. Others will disappoint you every time. Rather than advancing mediocrity by advancing the weak over the strong, strive to become the mightiest yourself and forget about the rest.

If what I was after was travel, food, entertainment...then yes. Perhaps today I would try to rationalize all of it in my mind...convincing myself of the truth of it...this is what people do...this is the formula...this is the game...play it.

But I've already had all of those things. And what I want will never be gained with that formula. That would be impossible.