[NF] i have a question on introverted intuition and pattern recognition?

[chado]

ok so i keep hearing over and over that ni(introverted intuition)is pattern recognition.now,what do you mean pattern recognition because i feel like as an infp im super great at recognitzing patterns,ne with si i can instantly see when a person i know has a problem or something is off,and i mean instantly,i can always tell when something is off with my mom or someone i know,just by unconsiously knowing there patterns of behavour,nnow how does ni see or recognize patterns?

 

[uumlau]

I'm using the "pattern recognition" explanation in an effort to demystify Ni, that it's no more mystical than remembering what you had for breakfast this morning.

Everyone can see patterns. Ni, however, thinks in patterns. All the weird ideas that Ni comes up with are a result of seeing and thinking in patterns that most other people don't see or think about. Note that I didn't say "can't see", but I have run into plenty of cases where very smart people just don't see the patterns I'm describing, at least not until they really investigate what I'm looking at for themselves, and then they're like, "Oh, that's just <their own words for the pattern>. What didn't you say so in the first place?"

I know INFPs can see patterns, and they see all sorts of patterns (especially patterns of feeling) that INTJs don't see. I've had extensive discussions with [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] on this topic, if you'd like to ask her about her impressions. Fi and Ni doms can have very similar descriptions of what's going on, because both Fi and Ni deal with things that defy explanations with words. Not that they cannot be explained or understood, but words fail for the most part. Si and Ti don't suffer this same issue because Ti is all about words/logic/math/classification, and Si is all about how we understand the concrete world, so words easily describe what people who have these functions prominent tend to think about.

Finally, "pattern recognition" is only a partial explanation. The question is what KIND of patterns. Ti sees logic patterns. Si sees concrete patterns. Fi sees emotional patterns. Ni sees "functional patterns" - how things/people work, what they do, how they do them, how do they interact as a system in a cause->effect way. These are not "exclusive" traits. Everyone can potentially do logic, work with concrete things, feel/understand emotions, and see cause-effect functionality. Everyone. The point here is that people of a particular type, especially when that type is the dominant function, do/see/feel these things as easily as breathing. It's who they are. Their mind just works that way without trying.

That's the point, really: we are not entirely ignorant of all these things that are talents for others but not our own talents, but we ourselves have some particular talent that we never really had to train, that we just started doing right out of the box. For example, I remember a time when I was 3 years old and a babysitter was explaining that gravity was what kept us on the ground. Even at that age, I immediately had a ton of questions about how gravity worked, and where it came from and so on - questions that she dealt with as well as she could with a 3-year-old kid. But I could just "see" the gravity, once she mentioned it, and "see" all the implications of its being there, however invisible. A few decades later, I ended up with a PhD in physics, just because those questions never disappeared from my mind, and I had to answer them. But I didn't study anything really concrete, and I wasn't logical so much as able to "see" how physics worked, and I certainly didn't have a talent for understanding feelings (my own or others), and so on.

 

[IndigoViolet11]

Pattern recognision would be Ne. They are simular, but Ne is like the information itself, a pattern, an already seen instant pattern right outside. Processing it with Ti or Fi is another tjing. Ni relies on any incoming substance to build up a kind of possible patterns, therefore works like predicting the future, such as an external thoughtform, ie Te or Fe.

*Oh, someone posted before me..

 

[chado]

Pattern recognision would be Ne. They are simular, but Ne is like the information itself, a pattern, an already seen instant pattern right outside. Processing it with Ti or Fi is another tjing. Ni relies on any incoming substance to build up a kind of possible patterns, therefore works like predicting the future, such as an external thoughtform, ie Te or Fe.

*Oh, someone posted before me..

so what you saying is ne sees the instand pattern outside simple connections,were as ni sees in internal subjective pattern and can even change and add its own flare to to,....what you say subjective patterns?

 

[uumlau]

"subjective patterns" is also a good phrase, to distinguish from Ne.

 

[Jeremy8419]

Sounds like: breadth of experiences.

 

[IndigoViolet11]

so what you saying is ne sees the instand pattern outside simple connections,were as ni sees in internal subjective pattern and can even change and add its own flare to to,....what you say subjective patterns?

Ni is more like having an inner map in your head, of predefinded pattern already inside the mind, so having Ni, we can well use that pattern, to look ahead. Sort of like a kind of prediction therefore. It is not necessarily subjective depending on the accuracy on how you precieve reality, but this is still a good way to go about what result would Ni gives you -- even Ni itself is subject to changes that came from the external environment, just like how we will alter our perception on things when we find them wrong, insufficient, or no longer fit.

Ne - the pattern is outside. You can think of it as something that you see with your eyes. But what you see are patterns. It is like you having an antenna to recieve that certain pattern. It is not an internal process. It is simply put, just by "seeing" it. Without an introverted processing it is just nothing but patterns.

 

[meowington]

i can instantly see when a person i know has a problem or something is off,and i mean instantly,i can always tell when something is off with my mom or someone i know

That specific sentence here (see above), sounds an awful lot like NiFe. Which are the primary and secondary INFJ
functions. (or ENFJ in reversed order).
For that reason I've always considered "picking up when someone is off or is feeling off" as trademark xNFJ.

(By which I do not mean exclusively. All other types can obviously pick up vibes too, but not as naturally. Like ISFJs for instance who also have Fe high in their function stack.)

 

[chado]

That specific sentence here (see above), sounds an awful lot like NiFe. Which are the primary and secondary INFJ
functions. (or ENFJ in reversed order).
For that reason I've always considered "picking up when someone is off or is feeling off" as trademark xNFJ.

(By which I do not mean exclusively. All other types can obviously pick up vibes too, but not as naturally. Like ISFJs for instance who also have Fe high in their function stack.)

i dont think so man i definitly have ne,and i am a realy unorganized person,who works more spontanously and in bouts,....i think perhaps i just have a developed ne and also because im very much surounded by alot of ni doms,and they tend to rub off on me lol but theres always a possibility but i dout it

 

[uumlau]

i dont think so man i definitly have ne,and i am a realy unorganized person,who works more spontanously and in bouts,....i think perhaps i just have a developed ne and also because im very much surounded by alot of ni doms,and they tend to rub off on me lol but theres always a possibility but i dout it

The "J" stereotypes don't hold up as well for INxJs as they do for ISxJs. Ni types are orderly in their minds, keeping track of all sorts of complex systems. The price is a lack of ability to keep track of currently active physical system due to inferior Se. Not that INxJs cannot be neat, but they usually have "a system" for keeping things neat, if that makes sense, and only if "being neat" serves a clear purpose other than the sake of neatness.

 

[Forever]

That specific sentence here (see above), sounds an awful lot like NiFe. Which are the primary and secondary INFJ
functions. (or ENFJ in reversed order).
For that reason I've always considered "picking up when someone is off or is feeling off" as trademark xNFJ.

(By which I do not mean exclusively. All other types can obviously pick up vibes too, but not as naturally. Like ISFJs for instance who also have Fe high in their function stack.)

I would have to disagree with you there meow, I tend to recognize a good or bad individual based on action or saying they say. Not some psychic recognition. It takes time for my Se to gather something about the person hence the "analytical" side of the INFJ. It's fast but not that fast.

 

[Dreamer]

ok so i keep hearing over and over that ni(introverted intuition)is pattern recognition.now,what do you mean pattern recognition because i feel like as an infp im super great at recognitzing patterns,ne with si i can instantly see when a person i know has a problem or something is off,and i mean instantly,i can always tell when something is off with my mom or someone i know,just by unconsiously knowing there patterns of behavour,nnow how does ni see or recognize patterns?

Like you, I feel I can get a read on people fairly easily. I feel it's the Ne/Fi working hand in hand that allows me to understand people so well. Working with my own emotions and understanding what makes me feel this way or that, and thinking of emotion in terms of loose abstractions the way intuition can, I feel, is what allows me to make sense of emotions in other people. I am unsure of the Ni/Fe dynamic in INFJs and how that allows them to read and understand people with great ease, though conceptually, I see Ni working well with Se.

Just as Ne makes connections, Ni does so, but from subjective connections made, internally. Really, they're kind of the same thing but one is inward and one outward. I know I'm grossly simplifying things, but think about how you personally see connections and relationships between things. You are making those connections within an external reality, outside of yourself. That creative process that allows you to play with tangible things/ideas outside of yourself, is the same process Ni users use, but focused inward, bridging gaps and making connections of their own, subjective realities.

 

[Shaedow]

ok so i keep hearing over and over that ni(introverted intuition)is pattern recognition.now,what do you mean pattern recognition because i feel like as an infp im super great at recognitzing patterns,ne with si i can instantly see when a person i know has a problem or something is off,and i mean instantly,i can always tell when something is off with my mom or someone i know,just by unconsiously knowing there patterns of behavour,nnow how does ni see or recognize patterns?

The issue may be with what exactly 'pattern recognition' is referring to.

Thinking for instance defines by comparing and contrasting objects. It sees what something has in common or different to an object, definition, measuring criteria. Seeing similarity can be considered seeing a pattern.

Intuition perceives potentiality/possibility. Where and object has come from or where it is heading, seeing a pattern to predict what is to comes next.

I could speculate about the other functions.

So I don't think 'pattern recognition' is exclusively Ni. The type of pattern recognition, how one recognizes patterns, or even what someone does with patterns, is influenced by they perspective (functional attitude) they hold.

Ne/Ni difference is orientation. An Ne perspective is the 'patterns' perceived are objective as if discover in the world. They see the potential objects hold, entertain multiple perspectives as all possibly true, read between the lines about what someone could have meant (or did not day). This is between objects in the world, and appears as if devoid of the subjective influence.

Ni will perceive the 'patterns' within themselves. They are aware of how how the object relates back to them. Not the inner affect experienced, the unconscious image behind these affects. They are aware of inner images and symbols that come to mind that have significant meaning/insight, predicting how events will unfold without external data, and envisioning transformations.

I am drawing from my understanding of Jung's and Beren's functional definitions.

 

[the state i am in]

Ni tends to get attached to their own assumptions, whereas Ne tends to get attached to their own experiences.

in the end, however, they're always on some level the backdrop for the other. one finding things in the representational side, the other in the immediate descriptive examining side. Ni finds things outside of any time context by seeking balanced overarching perspective like crop circles for no stable observer, whereas Ne remembers the unfolding of things anchored from some flitting sense of here w a seemingly infinite array of swirling slot machine pictures.

i honestly don't quite get how Ne-Fi works. i just know it's initially way better at dialogue and holding space. Ni-Fe is about piercing through things we cannot see, guessing what is at the center. it's still a guess, but, skillset-wise, we're well-equipped for it (that well-developed creative consideration instinct). Ne-Fi, to me, feels more like building their own space and inviting you in, whereas Ni-Fe is better at wading and coursing through yours.

when listening and owning one's own personal reactions, both sides are great at being able to navigate through emotional conflicts and draw out clarity, perspective, priority, acceptance, and a sense of how to see oneself.