ESFP, ESTP or ENFJ?

[Kierva]

As far as what he's told me, my impression of Hard is someone who is diplomatic and friendly with people he's on good terms with but does not hesitate to take people down if he has issues with them.

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], why is this so?

 

[Kierva]

Also:

ITT: People assert unsubstantiated claims or give insufficient evidence to support what they claim.

If I could ban people for being an echo of an empty vessel, I would. Please keep it focused.

 

[á´…eparted]

@Hard, why is this so?

@Chanaynay is accurate in his impression. I'm about as beta as they come, and I have my people, and I have not my people. The latter is often subjected to a much harsher and colder person. The core reason for this is once some is deemed my people in some way, they passed a test of sorts, they have already proven their worth/value somehow, and thus harsh scrutinty isn't needed at the outset until they have done something very wrong, or keep making mistakes. I also don't want to risk souring the connection, unless I didn't like them in the first place. Even then, if someone fucks up enough, even if they are my people I will take them down. I have rules, and some of them are not to be broken, and they will trump relationships in a heartbeat. The only people I will give a lot of leeway to are those who I have 100% taken on as a friend, of which there aren't many. My mindset with this tends to be more 1w2 influenced, but it wouldn't be this way if I wasn't ENFJ.

As for your type, I really just don't know (and I never have) , which is why I haven't said anything.

 

[Kierva]

@Chanaynay is accurate in his impression. I'm about as beta as they come, and I have my people, and I have not my people. The latter is often subjected to a much harsher and colder person. The core reason for this is once some is deemed my people in some way, they passed a test of sorts, they have already proven their worth/value somehow, and thus harsh scrutinty isn't needed at the outset until they have done something very wrong, or keep making mistakes. I also don't want to risk souring the connection, unless I didn't like them in the first place. Even then, if someone fucks up enough, even if they are my people I will take them down. I have rules, and some of them are not to be broken, and they will trump relationships in a heartbeat. The only people I will give a lot of leeway to are those who I have 100% taken on as a friend, of which there aren't many. My mindset with this tends to be more 1w2 influenced, but it wouldn't be this way if I wasn't ENFJ.

As for your type, I really just don't know (and I never have) , which is why I haven't said anything.

That is alright. I only wanted your input on Chay's impressions.

With that being said, I feel that while we both may look the same way, the reasons are very different. When I deal with people, I primarily care for my self-interests. A lot of things, people and experiences are gated by people, and I use my relationships with them to get what I want. I try to learn more about the person to find out his strengths and weaknesses, so that I can butter him up when I mention his strengths or blackmail him with his weaknesses.

It might sound extremely cutthroat, but I assure you I don't abuse people's trust. It's just the way it works when you go out to work, and I find that it has very interesting parallels when you apply it to personal life.

 

[Masokissed]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] ESFP ESTP ENFJ ENTJ are all charming as fuck tho (or are more likely to be anyways) so throw another spambot card (fr I laughed at that tho and young Oprah mannerisms)

3w4 is also supposed to be charming af

Oprah annoys me tho. I can see a similarity in energy but he's pretty different otherwise. Oprah is a lot more "correct".

I don't know you enough to really say but ESxP and ENxJ are the most likely choices imo. ESxP is way more likely than "xNxP Thinking type". Way. I know stereotypically SPs are "in the moment" but the argument that you can't be SP if you space out is wrong. I've seen SPs space out plenty of times and I do it myself sometimes. I'm still aware of the moment and everything around me when I do it.

I'm leaning ENxJ now tho for some reason. ENTJ > ESFP > ENFJ > ESTP

bcz Gamma > Beta

I don't have much of an argument for it yet.

 

[Dreamer]

I never thought of posting a video of myself for people to more accurately type me, this may end up being groundbreaking as pretty much the only type I've seen myself as since becoming intersted in psychology is ESFP.. Although I've wondered before too if I'm ENFP.. Either way I must think of something to make a vlog about!

I definitely associate with the "explore" then "reflect" dynamic when navigating the world but I often times debate whether it's perhaps Se I'm using and not Ne. You'd think the two are obviously different, and maybe they are, but to me, thoughts are thoughts, what I'm experiencing is just how I know I experience things, so in short, is it tangible experience I'm dealing with or abstract experience? I can't say for certain. I wonder if there are often ESFP/ENFP mistypings? I feel between ENFPs and ENTPs it's a bit more obvious. To me at least.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] ESFP ESTP ENFJ ENTJ are all charming as fuck tho (or are more likely to be anyways) so throw another spambot card (fr I laughed at that tho and young Oprah mannerisms)

3w4 is also supposed to be charming af

Oprah annoys me tho. I can see a similarity in energy but he's pretty different otherwise. Oprah is a lot more "correct".

I don't know you enough to really say but ESxP and ENxJ are the most likely choices imo. ESxP is way more likely than "xNxP Thinking type". Way. I know stereotypically SPs are "in the moment" but the argument that you can't be SP if you space out is wrong. I've seen SPs space out plenty of times and I do it myself sometimes. I'm still aware of the moment and everything around me when I do it.

I'm leaning ENxJ now tho for some reason. ENTJ > ESFP > ENFJ > ESTP

bcz Gamma > Beta

I don't have much of an argument for it yet.

True.

I've PMed Kierva a couple of times and responded in one of his typing threads before (this was long before you came here though) and that's all the math I care to do. I want to spam this thread with spam only.

 

[Kierva]

I want to spam this thread with spam only.

Please don't.

 

[1487610420]

True.

I've PMed Kierva a couple of times and responded in one of his typing threads before (this was long before you came here though) and that's all the math I care to do. I want to spam this thread with spam only.


I just love Kiervas personality regardless

 

[Dreamer]

The struggle I have in typing people, and why I often don't give my perceptions of people so readily, is because unless you talk with someone one on one for some decent amount of time on vent or wherever, or better yet, meet them in person, you just aren't going to get an accurate portrayal of that person at all. Add to that, someone's Enneagram type, to me, is actually where people can get hung up in typing someone. In Kierva's case, I don't believe he has high Fe, but rather, it's his 3w4 showing. When you have a deep seated insecurity or fear at your core, that is immensely going to pivot your interactions with the outside world, whether you're this MBTI type or that. You may process information and perceive the world in exactly the same way as someone of the same MBTI type, but if both of you have differing core fears, that thinking process is going to skew in the direction of that internal fear.

The beauty in discovering someone's true enneagram type is that since it is so central to someone, relating to their core fears or insecurities, you can then weed out the extraneous static that would otherwise confuse one to determine whether this person is type A or type O- blood (haha had to). If we ignore Enneagram as a major contributing factor to how someone acts, then all we're doing is falling back on type stereotypes that many people on this forum seem to love to blame for much of the miscommunication between the types. At the end of the day though, are we so removed from using stereotypes ourselves when typing people? We ARE on an online forum after all with no in-person communication most the time.

Not to detract from Kierva's type analysis occurring on this thread, but after speaking with him for a good amount of time on vent and sharing our perspectives on life, I can say without doubt that he and I share a lot of the same views with regards to how we process our emotions and feel them. If he is Fe dominant, then so am I.

 

[mooseantlers]

I wonder if there are often ESFP/ENFP mistypings? I feel between ENFPs and ENTPs it's a bit more obvious. To me at least.

it's actually quite common from what I've seen although it's the other way around, ESFP's thinking they are an ENFP

 

[Kierva]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] ESFP ESTP ENFJ ENTJ are all charming as fuck tho (or are more likely to be anyways) so throw another spambot card (fr I laughed at that tho and young Oprah mannerisms)

3w4 is also supposed to be charming af

Oprah annoys me tho. I can see a similarity in energy but he's pretty different otherwise. Oprah is a lot more "correct".

I don't know you enough to really say but ESxP and ENxJ are the most likely choices imo. ESxP is way more likely than "xNxP Thinking type". Way. I know stereotypically SPs are "in the moment" but the argument that you can't be SP if you space out is wrong. I've seen SPs space out plenty of times and I do it myself sometimes. I'm still aware of the moment and everything around me when I do it.

I'm leaning ENxJ now tho for some reason. ENTJ > ESFP > ENFJ > ESTP

bcz Gamma > Beta

I don't have much of an argument for it yet.

I think Gamma is a given. The question is, what kind of Gamma, other than ILI?

I've also explained earlier about why I space out. I think what you said about being aware of the moment applies to me as well. It's just that my mind blanks, I am just not thinking about anything and only getting information from what my senses tell me. But then, I don't register it in my head. It's like a stupor for me to recollect and rearrange my thoughts.

It's like writing down what I think on paper, except that I literally don't have paper to write down with. So I use my brain as a paper, and then whatever I'm speaking is whatever I'm writing, and when my mind blanks out, I'm erasing whatever I wrote on that "paper", because it doesn't make sense.

Anyway, you and Starry compared me to Oprah. I'm curious to see what other thoughts you have about the comparison between me and her, other than her being "more correct".

I definitely associate with the "explore" then "reflect" dynamic when navigating the world but I often times debate whether it's perhaps Se I'm using and not Ne. You'd think the two are obviously different, and maybe they are, but to me, thoughts are thoughts, what I'm experiencing is just how I know I experience things, so in short, is it tangible experience I'm dealing with or abstract experience? I can't say for certain. I wonder if there are often ESFP/ENFP mistypings? I feel between ENFPs and ENTPs it's a bit more obvious. To me at least.

Marm/@Thalassa used to be INFP way back in the day, if I recall. Maybe she can answer your question.

I don't think I can ever be considered an ENFP.

The struggle I have in typing people, and why I often don't give my perceptions of people so readily, is because unless you talk with someone one on one for some decent amount of time on vent or wherever, or better yet, meet them in person, you just aren't going to get an accurate portrayal of that person at all. Add to that, someone's Enneagram type, to me, is actually where people can get hung up in typing someone. In Kierva's case, I don't believe he has high Fe, but rather, it's his 3w4 showing. When you have a deep seated insecurity or fear at your core, that is immensely going to pivot your interactions with the outside world, whether you're this MBTI type or that. You may process information and perceive the world in exactly the same way as someone of the same MBTI type, but if both of you have differing core fears, that thinking process is going to skew in the direction of that internal fear.

The beauty in discovering someone's true enneagram type is that since it is so central to someone, relating to their core fears or insecurities, you can then weed out the extraneous static that would otherwise confuse one to determine whether this person is type A or type O- blood (haha had to). If we ignore Enneagram as a major contributing factor to how someone acts, then all we're doing is falling back on type stereotypes that many people on this forum seem to love to blame for much of the miscommunication between the types. At the end of the day though, are we so removed from using stereotypes ourselves when typing people? We ARE on an online forum after all with no in-person communication most the time.

Not to detract from Kierva's type analysis occurring on this thread, but after speaking with him for a good amount of time on vent and sharing our perspectives on life, I can say without doubt that he and I share a lot of the same views with regards to how we process our emotions and feel them. If he is Fe dominant, then so am I.

You are correct about 3w4. I feel that the most constant part of me is my 3w4 typing. And I agree that your enneagram greatly colors your behavior and actions towards the outside world, because your motivations drive you, whereas cognition (what MBTI is essentially about) is merely a tool for you to get there.

Also, stereotypes exist because people don't make much effort to get to know each other.

So if I am Fe dominant, and you say that you are Fe dominant if I am one, does it mean that we have looked to the stars for answers? One can only know.

it's actually quite common from what I've seen although it's the other way around, ESFP's thinking they are an ENFP

Like I said earlier, I don't think I can ever mistake myself for an ENFP. Who am I kidding?

 

[Starry]

The struggle I have in typing people, and why I often don't give my perceptions of people so readily, is because unless you talk with someone one on one for some decent amount of time on vent or wherever, or better yet, meet them in person, you just aren't going to get an accurate portrayal of that person at all. Add to that, someone's Enneagram type, to me, is actually where people can get hung up in typing someone. In Kierva's case, I don't believe he has high Fe, but rather, it's his 3w4 showing. When you have a deep seated insecurity or fear at your core, that is immensely going to pivot your interactions with the outside world, whether you're this MBTI type or that. You may process information and perceive the world in exactly the same way as someone of the same MBTI type, but if both of you have differing core fears, that thinking process is going to skew in the direction of that internal fear.

The beauty in discovering someone's true enneagram type is that since it is so central to someone, relating to their core fears or insecurities, you can then weed out the extraneous static that would otherwise confuse one to determine whether this person is type A or type O- blood (haha had to). If we ignore Enneagram as a major contributing factor to how someone acts, then all we're doing is falling back on type stereotypes that many people on this forum seem to love to blame for much of the miscommunication between the types. At the end of the day though, are we so removed from using stereotypes ourselves when typing people? We ARE on an online forum after all with no in-person communication most the time.

Not to detract from Kierva's type analysis occurring on this thread, but after speaking with him for a good amount of time on vent and sharing our perspectives on life, I can say without doubt that he and I share a lot of the same views with regards to how we process our emotions and feel them. If he is Fe dominant, then so am I.

This is an interesting argument ED. Unfortunately, it defeats the purpose for why typology was created in the first place. People study typology so they can know and accommodate people they don't know. In other words, if you had to know someone for a substantial amount of time in order to type them...it ends up defeating its own purpose. It's a shorthand. It's as simple as that. I'm almost surprised you see it so differently.


And I think the two of you are Fe doms. And no...I don't care to fucking explain especially since people seem so ungrateful in this thread unless they hear precisely what they want. Not everyone cares to devote time and energy to this kind of crap. I've never seen such ungratefulness. Like people are here to serve you all.

Also:
ITT: People assert unsubstantiated claims or give insufficient evidence to support what they claim.

If I could ban people for being an echo of an empty vessel, I would. Please keep it focused.

[MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]

Don't waste your fucking time explaining anything...unless you're getting paid of course.

 

[Galena]

I said Gamma for you because it fits with the quadrant having a controlled but intimate nature and a focus on practical things that can be done to send resources into an envisioned future. There's no sense of you having a "people", just one person you're sending messages to at a time. However, I'm with you about not being sure which Gamma type.

Why don't you rule out ESI like you do ILI?

Edit - removed references to your own quadra descriptions because it felt like kind of a cheap shortcut in hindsight, but those have been the most understandable ones I've encountered and do influence my read.

 

[Kierva]

This is an interesting argument ED. Unfortunately, it defeats the purpose for why typology was created in the first place. People study typology so they can know and accommodate people they don't know. In other words, if you had to know someone for a substantial amount of time in order to type them...it ends up defeating its own purpose. It's a shorthand. It's as simple as that. I'm almost surprised you see it so differently.

Then what's the point of typology when you change types for whoever you've known after a while?

You are iterating its original purpose, but on this forum, people are moving onto the intricacies of cognition, and using typology as a tool. Lady, you are not with the times.

And I think the two of you are Fe doms. And no...I don't care to fucking explain especially since people seem so ungrateful in this thread unless they hear precisely what they want. Not everyone cares to devote time and energy to this kind of crap. I've never seen such ungratefulness. Like people are here to serve you all.

Look, lady. I gave everyone a fair chance and you blew it with unsubstantianted, biased views. I was hoping for an objective assessment like what Kullervo or Alaska (among others) did but you did otherwise. All I ask was for the discussion to be focused, yet you and your feelings are detracting from it.

I'm only going to say this once: you are not welcome here. Please move along now.

[MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]

Don't waste your fucking time explaining anything...unless you're getting paid of course.

I like Masokissed. He can stay. At least he has a better idea of what's correct and incorrect to balance out the unsubstantiated views here.

Now, where were we...?

 

[Starry]

Then what's the point of typology when you change types for whoever you've known after a while?

You are iterating its original purpose, but on this forum, people are moving onto the intricacies of cognition, and using typology as a tool. Lady, you are not with the times.


Look, lady. I gave everyone a fair chance and you blew it with unsubstantianted, biased views. I was hoping for an objective assessment like what Kullervo or Alaska (among others) did but you did otherwise. All I ask was for the discussion to be focused, yet you and your feelings are detracting from it.

I'm only going to say this once: you are not welcome here. Please move along now.




I like Masokissed. He can stay. At least he has a better idea of what's correct and incorrect to balance out the unsubstantiated views here.

Now, where were we...?

Look lady...I've already fuckin done that for you. Would you like me to connect you to some posts? Ungrateful fuck. This is seriously why people shouldn't waste their time typing others.

 

[Kierva]

I said Gamma for you because you've written your own good descriptions of the quadrants, and you fit one of them. Specifically the ones in the Quadra Behavior thread, which I agree with on Gamma having a subdued but intimate nature and a focus on practical things that can be done to send resources into an envisioned future. Where you use yourself as an example of these traits is in line with what I've already observed seeing you around here, and makes me confident in that quadrant for you, though I sympathize with you not being set on a particular Gamma type. Your versions of the other three quadrants, on the other hand, sound almost ridiculously unlike you, though Beta is the least egregious in this respect.

Basically: Gamma is where *your own* well thought out concepts of the quadrants place you, and when self-typing, your own understanding is the last word. I realize it's stale information, but it's what I was thinking back there.

Now, why don't you rule out ESI like you do ILI?

Right. I don't think I can find any better fit other than Gamma, even after reading and digesting other descriptions on wiki and on other forums.

While I understand the concept, I don't quite understand how myself fits into a particular type. It's one of the liabilities of being 3w4, because with my friends I can seem pretty wild and outgoing, yet at work I'm incredibly task oriented and objective. Even on this forum, I'm not THAT chummy with people except a select few, and you always see me pushing for evidence or clarifications.

I guess that is where the confusion is at.

I kept ESI for consideration because I find that my judgments of things, people and experiences are closer to an ESI than an SEE. The former is more rigid about its judgments, and I find that I hardly change my mind about things once I've decided what this thing, person or experience means to me. I'm not like an SEE in the sense that I can turn on or off these judgments.

ILI is out because PoLR is extremely unlike me. I know 3 ILIs IRL and they are deadpan. I went to a concert with one and she just stood there while I was dancing relentlessly to the music.

At the moment, I can kind of see LIE for myself because of the things I've described above, but I wonder if I'm too expressive. I do relate to this part of role, however:

LIEs make an effort to adapt to the prevailing emotional atmosphere, especially in group situations, and try to promote a positive emotional environment, as in making positive or witty remarks, in the presence of individuals they are already somewhat acquainted with and appreciate; or in purely professional meetings or short-lived social encounters, they are aware of the need to put up a friendly and polite facade. Such efforts, however, are normally low-key and of short duration; it is difficult for them to display emotions more complex or intense with any enthusiasm. They are essentially unable to participate in a group atmosphere where intense emotional expression, as in loud laughing and mutual jokes, are prevailing, for any extended period of time. LIEs make an effort to be aware of the need not to disrupt the prevailing emotional atmosphere, but they do not succeed for any length of time if that would clash with their inner emotional state and private feelings about the other persons present.

I went out with a group of friends from different quadras last night, there were 6 of us including myself. It was very in the sense that we were loud and talking about things that fed the ridiculous atmosphere, where we were loud, boisterous and generally being a public nuisance because we kept disturbing handsome guys be it on the sidewalk or the restaurant. They love to catcall these men and objectify them (which I found extremely hilarious) and point them towards who were potentially interested in these guys, and unsurprisingly, I got most of the caucasian men.

When this happens I'm extremely flustered and uncomfortable, and like I pretended to not know them. Aside from that, when we were just hanging around, I was easily the quietest because I'm just not very good at controlling the atmosphere or conversation. Most times, I often get ignored when I speak.

- - - Updated - - -

Look lady...I've already fuckin done that for you. Would you like me to connect you to some posts? Ungrateful fuck.

Sure.

 

[HongDou]

I like Masokissed. He can stay. At least he has a better idea of what's correct and incorrect to balance out the unsubstantiated views here.

Now, where were we...?

What's with the shade? we may not have talked as much like a few years ago but I thought we got along. I wasn't even proclaiming you as ENFJ - I just popped into the thread and saw [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]'s reply to what you said and thought it reminded me of Hard so I just said that. If you specifically wanted in-depth analysis then you could have stated it in your OP rather than just offering a "cookie and gold star" for people who do provide it. Like you even tagged Starry in your OP and asked for her opinion and she gave it in her usual Starry-way. And I didn't see you requesting a focused discussion until after all this went down so

 

[Kierva]

What's with the shade? we may not have talked as much like a few years ago but I thought we got along. I wasn't even proclaiming you as ENFJ - I just popped into the thread and saw [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]'s reply to what you said and thought it reminded me of Hard so I just said that. If you specifically wanted in-depth analysis then you could have stated it in your OP rather than just offering a "cookie and gold star" for people who do provide it. Like you even tagged Starry in your OP and asked for her opinion and she gave it in her usual Starry-way. And I didn't see you requesting a focused discussion until after all this went down so

But eventually I did, so yes, it's my fault for not requesting as such in the very beginning. It's certainly something to keep in mind for the future.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] is a dear friend to me and I hope he doesn't waste his time here.

Especially considering his explanations aren't up to par

Anyway, you and Starry compared me to Oprah. I'm curious to see what other thoughts you have about the comparison between me and her, other than her being "more correct".