ESFP, ESTP or ENFJ?

[Kierva]

I guess the TL;DR of this thread would be:

• Gamma extrovert
• 3w4 masked as Fe
• Te = Fi > Se > Ni
• ENTJ = ESFP >>> ENFJ

My need for closure requires that I have a label.

do it pls

 

[Bush]

I'm actually considering PoLR for myself, in that I don't really care for fitness or bodily health until I recognize that its detrimental to my productivity. I find the gym very boring. On top of that, I'm actually sitting at home, nursing a fever. Fever is the worst; colds and coughs aren't that bad because you're functional, but fever is debilitating.

I hate being constrained. Or, at least even feeling that I'll maybe get myself into an constraining environment fills me with dread. Regardless of whether or not it's "productive" in the very strict sense of the term -- as I've relaxed on "productivity" a tad bit at least for now -- I'd like to be able to do it.

Fever sucks. Surgery sucks. Getting old sucks. Whether due to bodily health, having maintenance work (because bushes I trim are just going to grow out again anyway!), having to stop to eat (been trying Soylent), and so on. makes the most sense for me as a PoLR (which is evidence for LIE).

That bullshit is part of daily life, I know. But.. "daily" itself is an operative word -- it's daily, you know? Every. Fucking. Day.

I try to look at such things meditative (sharpening the saw), which is itself has some long-term benefit -- but I have a ways to go on learning patience for the intangible. I do have a pretty good knack for looking for the "silver lining" in most any situation, but it's especially hard for the daily stuff.

Thank Christ my wife is a nurse (prob gamma SEE-Fi).

I wrote that with a certain ILI in mind, and he's the kind that likes abstract topics. Like I said, I find it very boring, because it doesn't deal with problems faced in the now. There's no immediate impact.

The interpretation wrt makes sense, too. I'm personally less of a "here and now" kind of guy, but of course I lean in that direction. That's one of very few points where you and I seem to diverge, and even that's only slightly.

It's "real-life" ideas with very little backing that irk me. "What if you leave our child in his carseat??" will be met with a sarcastic but teasing and well-meaning "Well, what if my car spontaneously explodes..?"

Additionally, one of my advisers once told me that there's no use speculating on a fact. I've found that approach to be very satisfying, and it's an idea that's constantly kicking around in the back of my mind.

Actually that's one of the best sources. Its content is basically copy pasted from wikisocion.org.

Good to hear, because wikisocion.org is great.

And kudos on demonstrating that , pointing out what's a good source of information vs. what isn't

Likewise! I find myself quite flexible when it comes to plans. Though when it comes to asking for a decision, I'm quite pushy. I don't like it when I ask people what they want to do, and they say "anything goes". I always push for a definite answer.

I'm a bit more loose in that respect, but again not entirely loose. Yeah, I like stuff to at least be narrowed down. (I've learned that people fare pretty well when they're given a few options/suggestions, or if I help them come up with a few.)

Though sometimes I even get myself in trouble by starting a few projects at once to see what will "work," while also keeping a (very, very strained!) eye toward choosing one and plunging forward. For example, I'm currently working on an album, and I'm currently trying to decide whether or not to make it a solo effort or to collaborate with my long-time partner again. Yet I want something out the door, ASAP. But I try to reconcile that by realizing that any songs, demos, or concepts that I come up with solo could very well be passed on to him, and he could build upon it and we could iterate if we decide to collaborate. So I suppose I made a plan out of it.

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I feel like I run into this problem where I feel somewhat alone because I give or show different sides of myself to different people, and so they only have that one piece of that puzzle. They never really see the whole picture.

Yeah.

I can't give my whole "me," on account of feeling as though there are some facets of my being that one person wouldn't care about, and another set that another wouldn't care about. The more fibers that are there, the more of a connection you have, you know? I need strong fibers with very few people, but it's cool when someone close to me expresses interest in something that I didn't think they'd care about.

I'm like the opposite? I'm nice to most people's faces but inside I'm judging them so hard. I just don't want to be hurt or taken advantage of again, which leads to my hating of humans.

I feel like I "evaluate" more than "judge." Though I'm often pretty easy to get along with, it's hard for me to force myself to, say, believe that everybody on the planet has a wonderful interesting life story to share. We're all the main characters in our own respective plays, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone's play is entertaining to me. (Though some plays are!)

I also live and breathe incentives. Knowing what motivates people has been key to my survival, whether it's for my benefit and/or theirs. As a Three, discovering my own incentives has been a process.

I do understand the need to cooperate to get things done, but if I really don't like someone and they've crossed the line, I will not hesitate to fight with them (as evidenced in this thread). I deter, not attack. And I don't actually feel awkwardness when I'm forced to work with someone that I've fought before or be on bad blood with, because if anything, it's good, as we can keep that emotional distance between each other.

I've come to realize that although I'm relatively chill, I'll fight (to the death..?) with people who screw me over or fuck with my family. I may go after people who greatly insult me, but I also figure that those people aren't worth my time and that most of that is on their end.

Then how do you decide which MBTI type is home for you?

Good question.

Yeah. Good question.

I guess the TL;DR of this thread would be:

• Gamma extrovert
• 3w4 masked as Fe
• Te = Fi > Se > Ni
• ENTJ = ESFP >>> ENFJ

Legit list. Though you're not the strongest extrovert on the planet, I think ENTJ and LIE.

If I had a gun to my head, my list would look like this:

• Gamma intuitive
• 3w4; legit Fe cake, but completely covered in saccharine icing
• (Socionics) Te = Ni > Fi > Se
• (MBTI) ENxP > xNFJ..?

I personally do like closure, but at the same time I hate constraint. Not that a type is necessarily constraining, but discussions and such around here certainly are flavored by what you list.

 

[Typh0n]

[MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION]

Since you so kindly asked for my help, I'll give my 2c.

I believe you are base. I think you are very image focused and both base and mobilizing can be image conscious, especially since you type as 3w4. The difference I note between yourself and mobilizing types seems to be how body-focused you are compared to me for example. My image seems to be a manner of expressing symbols, which have an aesthetic appeal, but I am uncomfortable dressing extravagantly, not because its outrageous in itself, but because don't like people staring at my physical body, clothing, or parts of my appearance. You seem to lack a desire to influene people through symbols, preferring to use your physical appearance, the bodily presence.

Thats my impression, of course I don't know you, and if you decided on SEI, and were certain of it, I wouldn't have a problem. But this is my general impression, since you asked, I think dom is legit.

Now, as to whether you are SEE or SLE, I'm not sure on that, it seems that you are probably subtype of whichever one you are, but at this point, I'm holding my judgement on your rational functions.

 

[Kierva]

I hate being constrained. Or, at least even feeling that I'll maybe get myself into an constraining environment fills me with dread. Regardless of whether or not it's "productive" in the very strict sense of the term -- as I've relaxed on "productivity" a tad bit at least for now -- I'd like to be able to do it.

Dude, the military is the very definition of constraint. Before I got enlisted I got so many panic attacks because I believed I was going to be cornered and constrained. I still am, and I'm still getting used to it.

I guess anything can be productive -- it's a matter of how you see it.

Fever sucks. Surgery sucks. Getting old sucks. Whether due to bodily health, having maintenance work (because bushes I trim are just going to grow out again anyway!), having to stop to eat (been trying Soylent), and so on. makes the most sense for me as a PoLR (which is evidence for LIE).

It does! I've slept for 14 hours and I don't feel any better. I got you on the home maintenance work -- I find that super boring and stressful. Every time I mop the house, or clean the windows I have to stop myself from throwing a destructive tantrum. The fact that it never ends just stresses me out and I am currently working hard to make sure I can afford a maid.

That bullshit is part of daily life, I know. But.. "daily" itself is an operative word -- it's daily, you know? Every. Fucking. Day.

I feel you. Fuck that.

I try to look at such things meditative (sharpening the saw), which is itself has some long-term benefit -- but I have a ways to go on learning patience for the intangible. I do have a pretty good knack for looking for the "silver lining" in most any situation, but it's especially hard for the daily stuff.

Yeah, to keep myself sane I have my daily 1111 ritual, where I just drop everything for a minute and utter the serenity prayer. For some reason it puts everything back into perspective.

Thank Christ my wife is a nurse (prob gamma SEE-Fi).

I used to self type as that. What is she like?

The interpretation wrt makes sense, too. I'm personally less of a "here and now" kind of guy, but of course I lean in that direction. That's one of very few points where you and I seem to diverge, and even that's only slightly.

Hmm. My directive is on the overall goal, but I'm very aware of what I can and am going to do now to reach that directive. I want to move to the US for a career in copywriting (lots of opportunities there, and the quality of work is miles better than it is here in SG), and I realize that I need to finish my portfolio site (it's only halfway done).

It's such a drag because I know I have to keep updating it, and I'm the kind that doesn't like to use one template for long. I like to revamp and change my look every few years, but god damn, as I accumulate more work, I have a hard time choosing and arranging it.

It's "real-life" ideas with very little backing that irk me. "What if you leave our child in his carseat??" will be met with a sarcastic but teasing and well-meaning "Well, what if my car spontaneously explodes..?"

Or when I'm at KFC and people ask me "What are you doing here?" and I answer "Oh I'm getting a bicycle???". Hi hello can use your brain or not???

Additionally, one of my advisers once told me that there's no use speculating on a fact. I've found that approach to be very satisfying, and it's an idea that's constantly kicking around in the back of my mind.

That's a good idea to live by.

Good to hear, because wikisocion.org is great.

And kudos on demonstrating that , pointing out what's a good source of information vs. what isn't

I'm a bit more loose in that respect, but again not entirely loose. Yeah, I like stuff to at least be narrowed down. (I've learned that people fare pretty well when they're given a few options/suggestions, or if I help them come up with a few.)

That seems like another good idea to adopt. I'll give it a try.

Though sometimes I even get myself in trouble by starting a few projects at once to see what will "work," while also keeping a (very, very strained!) eye toward choosing one and plunging forward. For example, I'm currently working on an album, and I'm currently trying to decide whether or not to make it a solo effort or to collaborate with my long-time partner again. Yet I want something out the door, ASAP. But I try to reconcile that by realizing that any songs, demos, or concepts that I come up with solo could very well be passed on to him, and he could build upon it and we could iterate if we decide to collaborate. So I suppose I made a plan out of it.

I like how you made the most out of your indecision lol. Might I ask what kind of album is it?

I can't give my whole "me," on account of feeling as though there are some facets of my being that one person wouldn't care about, and another set that another wouldn't care about. The more fibers that are there, the more of a connection you have, you know? I need strong fibers with very few people, but it's cool when someone close to me expresses interest in something that I didn't think they'd care about.

I got you. I feel like myself and [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] have the bolded that you mentioned, yet he and I are very different in how we go about things. He's more gentle, patient and nicer than I am, for instance.

I feel like I "evaluate" more than "judge." Though I'm often pretty easy to get along with, it's hard for me to force myself to, say, believe that everybody on the planet has a wonderful interesting life story to share. We're all the main characters in our own respective plays, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone's play is entertaining to me. (Though some plays are!)

And those with interesting plays are the ones you should be friends with!

And I honestly believe some people would make a lot of bank if they made their life a drama series. I know mine would, I just cannot find a producer and director. Hahaha

I also live and breathe incentives. Knowing what motivates people has been key to my survival, whether it's for my benefit and/or theirs. As a Three, discovering my own incentives has been a process.
I've come to realize that although I'm relatively chill, I'll fight (to the death..?) with people who screw me over or fuck with my family. I may go after people who greatly insult me, but I also figure that those people aren't worth my time and that most of that is on their end.

Same. I dislike it when people make fun of my friends and family. I'm quite used to being insulted because of how I grew up, but I draw the line and friends and family.

Good question.

Yeah. Good question.

I guess my journalistic training didn't go to waste after all.

Legit list. Though you're not the strongest extrovert on the planet, I think ENTJ and LIE.

Before this I was SEE-Fi, but I wasn't so sure on that because is one of my strongest functions. On the flipside, as [MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION] has mentioned, my is equally as strong as well. I'll try that on for now.

If I had a gun to my head, my list would look like this:

• Gamma intuitive
• 3w4; legit Fe cake, but completely covered in saccharine icing
• (Socionics) Te = Ni > Fi > Se
• (MBTI) ENxP > xNFJ..?

I believe everything on that list except ILI (even if you didn't mention it directly). I get this sense that you're somewhat personable and diplomatic, two traits that I don't associate with PoLR. The three ILIs I know are mean without meaning it, deadpan even if the environment clearly shows otherwise and somewhat critical of everything (attribute that to negativist).

I personally do like closure, but at the same time I hate constraint. Not that a type is necessarily constraining, but discussions and such around here certainly are flavored by what you list.

So I somewhat like constraint? Is that what you're saying?

I guess it's because I've been floating around on a type for way too long, and I'm kind of sick of it.

 

[Kierva]

[MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION]

Since you so kindly asked for my help, I'll give my 2c.

Thank you.

I believe you are base. I think you are very image focused and both base and mobilizing can be image conscious, especially since you type as 3w4. The difference I note between yourself and mobilizing types seems to be how body-focused you are compared to me for example. My image seems to be a manner of expressing symbols, which have an aesthetic appeal, but I am uncomfortable dressing extravagantly, not because its outrageous in itself, but because don't like people staring at my physical body, clothing, or parts of my appearance. You seem to lack a desire to influene people through symbols, preferring to use your physical appearance, the bodily presence.

Ah, interesting. Now that you brought it up, I remember how Gaga (whom I believe to be EIE) does the whole image thing through symbols. I don't see myself like her at all, though that may be because she's an outlandish EIE.

Thats my impression, of course I don't know you, and if you decided on SEI, and were certain of it, I wouldn't have a problem. But this is my general impression, since you asked, I think dom is legit.

Haha, I used to type myself as SEE-Fi. I have never considered myself to be part of Alpha or Delta.

Now, as to whether you are SEE or SLE, I'm not sure on that, it seems that you are probably subtype of whichever one you are, but at this point, I'm holding my judgement on your rational functions.

SLE is interesting, because of how strong my is. I think way back in the day I used to type SLE. Though I'm not sure if I want someone like [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] as my dual. Nor am I sure about wanting someone like [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] as my dual either. *shrugs*

 

[Forever]

SLE is interesting, because of how strong my is. I think way back in the day I used to type SLE. Though I'm not sure if I want someone like @Forever as my dual. Nor am I sure about wanting someone like @Nicodemus as my dual either. *shrugs*

Wtf. 2 good 4 u

i can totally take on my Te poLR ---

luv u Bby

 

[Kierva]

Wtf. 2 good 4 u

u wil fynd sum1 who wil luv u 4 who u r

 

[Dreamer]

[MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION], I am continually humbled by such kind words. Thank you

 

[Forever]

u wil fynd sum1 who wil luv u 4 who u r

Wut u r sying u dunt wtf. Don't do this to me. Everyone is a believer. So believe in me.

Yeah post #69 cuz that's y

 

[Typh0n]

Ah, interesting. Now that you brought it up, I remember how Gaga (whom I believe to be EIE) does the whole image thing through symbols. I don't see myself like her at all, though that may be because she's an outlandish EIE.

Gaga is definately EIE, and I agree about how she conveys image through symbols. Notice how she doesn't seem as "present" in her body as some like, say, Madonna does either.

SLE is interesting, because of how strong my is

Why do you think your is strong? What gives you that impression? Not saying its not, but do you think it is strong enough to be demonstrative and why?

 

[Kierva]

Why do you think your is strong? What gives you that impression? Not saying its not, but do you think it is strong enough to be demonstrative and why?

I was pretty much raised to I can delegate, prioritize and complete my tasks efficiently if I want to, and I'm quick to ask and offer factual evidence when I'm unsure or want to explain something. I also ask for examples when someone is explaining something to me, and I always give examples when I am explaining something.

The Quadra Behaviors thread is littered with examples. Also, my spat with Starry has some as well.

I doubt I'm anything in Beta, but the most likely for me is SLE.

 

[Bush]

Dude, the military is the very definition of constraint. Before I got enlisted I got so many panic attacks because I believed I was going to be cornered and constrained. I still am, and I'm still getting used to it.

Not too long ago, I moved from one work environment to another. Executive summary is that I went from eating what I kill to working in a more "teamy" environment, where a bunch of people coordinate on killing an entire herd.

It's difficult to establish yourself as an asset to the team until you can deliver something tangible. That doesn't happen overnight. Until then, the only real measure of your ... asset-ness .. they can use is when you work, which in turn, in the team's mind, necessarily involves a stricter work schedule. I was very much afraid that I'd lose my flexibility forever. I dreaded it. I looked for an escape plan. But eventually we'd established mutual trust that I can do what I need to do, even if I flexed my schedule a bit.

But I wound up keeping a somewhat regular schedule. It turned out that not staying up until 11pm on some days and 2am on others and not working and playing whenever turned out to be good for the ol' *cringe* . I got used to it eventually, and I don't really feel like I had to compromise in the process. So it can happen.

But if I feel that I have too much constraint in life, even if I "go along with it," I still get wary on account of those constraints even existing.
_

Additionally, I had to give up my old office when I first started. It logistically didn't make sense for me to work there anyway. There were a few empty offices available, but the center wasn't yet sure how they should be allocated, on account of possible further expansion. And I wanted one, as having a private office grants less neck-breathing-downness than working in a big room with other folks.

So I 'd that motherfucker. I established a good relationship with the admin folks; and shortly after I began, I casually brought it up and they gave me a key to one. We all couldn't help then but make it official.


More later. This convo is good stuff.

 

[Tilt]

E to the N to the F to the J


Keirva...it was recently said to me by one of our many endearing members something along the lines of my type related arguments are for shit. That it's not as I claim...that after doing a million of them over the last six fucking years I'm exhausted and don't really care to do more than merely "chime in" with 4 letters and be done with it...no. It's that I'm incapable of it and subsequently "play coy" as if I had a coy bone in my body.

And so to defend myself I present to you this highly technical and scientific explanation for ENFJ

charming af

Didn't you say that you thought Kierva and I had similar vibes? But I concede that he is much more charming than I aka charming af.

 

[Starry]

Didn't you say that you thought Kierva and I had similar vibes? But I concede that he is much more charming than I aka charming af.

No and no.

I haven't seen [MENTION=11928]Woaden[/MENTION] in a very long time and don't know what he currently types as but I think he is a quieter ENFJ 3w4 as well.

*quieter* <-which is what we had been discussing with regards to you is a singular trait in my opinion. Whereas I would define *similar vibes* as a collection of traits and quirks that are not easily isolated from one another in a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" kind of way...and seemingly shared by two people.

I was only referring to the possibility of the former being true.

 

[Tilt]

No and no.



*quieter* <-which is what we had been discussing with regards to you is a singular trait in my opinion. Whereas I would define *similar vibes* as a collection of traits and quirks that are not easily isolated from one another in a "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" kind of way...and seemingly shared by two people.

I was only referring to the possibility of the former being true.

No worries. I don't think he and I are all that similar....he's seems pretty cool..Anything from. ENFJ to ESXP.

 

[Starry]

I don't think he and I are all that similar...

I wholeheartedly agree.
110%

 

[Tilt]

I wholeheartedly agree.
110%

I was mostly joking around.... On my original post because you did comment about the quiet 3w4 ENFJ.

 

[Starry]

I was mostly joking around.... On my original post because you did comment about the quiet 3w4 ENFJ.

Have you read this thread in its entirety FutureInProgress? haha. Having called you my friend for so long now (knowing you well) I'm thinking the answer to that is likely to be "No." Or perhaps you merely missed a couple of parts including how jokes are apparently not allowed in this thread. Only top-quality responses from the very small handful of typology masters here will do.

 

[Tilt]

That is alright. I only wanted your input on Chay's impressions.

With that being said, I feel that while we both may look the same way, the reasons are very different. When I deal with people, I primarily care for my self-interests. A lot of things, people and experiences are gated by people, and I use my relationships with them to get what I want. I try to learn more about the person to find out his strengths and weaknesses, so that I can butter him up when I mention his strengths or blackmail him with his weaknesses.

It might sound extremely cutthroat, but I assure you I don't abuse people's trust. It's just the way it works when you go out to work, and I find that it has very interesting parallels when you apply it to personal life.

In reality, I act similarly but I usually won't go as far to blackmail people. I usually know enough about a person’s perceptions, motivations, sore spots to spin an argument in my favor/get under their skin to get a certain reaction. I am usually fairly "nice" but If I do not like you, it's pretty evident. I am ENFJ 3w4... It could just be the 3w4 sp/sx commonality though.

To note, I feel either positive or fairly neutral to most of the members on here. To me, there is no one really worth expending negative energy on.

 

[Kierva]

Not too long ago, I moved from one work environment to another. Executive summary is that I went from eating what I kill to working in a more "teamy" environment, where a bunch of people coordinate on killing an entire herd.

It's difficult to establish yourself as an asset to the team until you can deliver something tangible. That doesn't happen overnight. Until then, the only real measure of your ... asset-ness .. they can use is when you work, which in turn, in the team's mind, necessarily involves a stricter work schedule. I was very much afraid that I'd lose my flexibility forever. I dreaded it. I looked for an escape plan. But eventually we'd established mutual trust that I can do what I need to do, even if I flexed my schedule a bit.

But I wound up keeping a somewhat regular schedule. It turned out that not staying up until 11pm on some days and 2am on others and not working and playing whenever turned out to be good for the ol' *cringe* . I got used to it eventually, and I don't really feel like I had to compromise in the process. So it can happen.

But if I feel that I have too much constraint in life, even if I "go along with it," I still get wary on account of those constraints even existing.
_

Additionally, I had to give up my old office when I first started. It logistically didn't make sense for me to work there anyway. There were a few empty offices available, but the center wasn't yet sure how they should be allocated, on account of possible further expansion. And I wanted one, as having a private office grants less neck-breathing-downness than working in a big room with other folks.

So I 'd that motherfucker. I established a good relationship with the admin folks; and shortly after I began, I casually brought it up and they gave me a key to one. We all couldn't help then but make it official.


More later. This convo is good stuff.

This convo really is good stuff.

I relate to you about with the admin staff. I did that myself, but with my bosses and superiors. In effect, because I am competent and on good terms with them, I get away with a lot of things.

I take way too many long breaks and disappear for 1-2 hours at a time, despite not having any meetings (meetings are a huge waste of time anyway), and whenever I ask for off or leave, it almost always gets approved.

The schedule is something to be desired though. Without an alarm clock, if I go to sleep at midnight I will automatically wake up at 7 without an alarm clock. Not that that is a bad thing, but on those days you just want to sleep in, it's almost impossible. The good thing is that no matter what happens, you punch in at 8 and out at 5:30.

What's the work like? Manageable? Interesting? I hope yours is, because doing rote administrative work Si really taxes on my patience. The worst part is, it's so Alpha/Delta that there are no deadlines, so I'm not motivated to complete it at all. I really only do the work when there is a deadline.