Why is Fi the most devauled or unappreciated function?

[ChocolateMoose123]

Omg this thread is a crap show.

But I'm really attracted to Fi. Mainly because it shows autonomy. It stays true to itself, even under immense pressures. Maybe it's an ISTP thing, but I like that boldness. Especially, when it synchs with my own thoughts on certain issues.

Even when it doesn't, I have found *mature* Fi doms/auxs to be respectful of those differences because of individuality. Fi dom/auxs are pretty understanding of that concept.

The exception being a fierce rejection of anything that invades those thoughts but I mean, most people have that in them.

My ENFP took some time to get used to in how Fi comforts. It's different than how Fe does. And I can't put my finger on it. Fe envelopes and has a unconditional quality (to me) of acceptance.

Even if, they'll turn around and disagree with what they are comforting you about. The subject matter is secondary. With Fi, I think the subject matter is always primary. But this feels like "unsupportive" to an Fe user. When, it's them not merging with you. It's that autonomy.

This is a blessing and also curse. Whatever kills you, also makes you stronger type thing. It's why I admire Fi users but also in some cases where I don't want to be hit over the head with *their* individuality. Lol.

Double edged sword with everything. Fe is same way but different.

But yeah. It took me a long time to understand Fi in depth.

 

[Jaguar]

Omg this thread is a crap show.

I was going to post something crude, but that comment will do.

But I'm really attracted to Fi. Mainly because it shows autonomy. It stays true to itself, even under immense pressures.

Indeed.

 

[magpie]

It always seems so backwards when people compete about who is worse off. I'd rather compete about who is better off as that would feel far more ego-inflating. For me, at least. It seems a lot of other people get their egos inflated by trying to get other people to confirm that they have it worst. So here you go, then. I'll stroke everyone's egos at once, if you like. All of you who aren't me are obviously very mistreated due to your cognitive functions. I, however, am treated fantastically.

Let me know if I can do anything else to satisfy anyone's feels about their place in the oppression olympics. We can make this work together.

 

[Yama]

I should probably mention that I don't bring up my beef with Fe and Si stereotypes to create a circlejerk of "My life sucks more than yours, woe is me!" but just to state some observations I've made that aren't in complete alignment with others' observations, since that makes the discussion more interesting and diverse. (I'm also talking about the frequency of which I see this occuring, not saying that it's "better" or "worse"--it's all shitty for every function when it happens). My problems in life are not due to cognitive function prejudice but because of actual real-life things lol

Like what prpl said earlier, everyone's going to have the most issues with stereotypes that go against their dom and aux functions. So the Fi users are gonna cry about the Fi stereotypes and the Fe users are going to cry about the Fe stereotypes etc.

 

[á´…eparted]

*walks into thread hopeful* Oh... this stuff again. Good day. :backout:

 

[prplchknz]

It always seems so backwards when people compete about who is worse off. I'd rather compete about who is better off as that would feel far more ego-inflating. For me, at least. It seems a lot of other people get their egos inflated by trying to get other people to confirm that they have it worst. So here you go, then. I'll stroke everyone's egos at once, if you like. All of you who aren't me are obviously very mistreated due to your cognitive functions. I, however, am treated fantastically.

Let me know if I can do anything else to satisfy anyone's feels about their place in the oppression olympics. We can make this work together.

I do agree with you, but i thought about it some more i actually also hate when types try to compete for what makes them the best type. just be you and fuck the rest.

 

[ceecee]

 

[Lady Lazarus]

I feel as if Fe stereotypes encompass everything that opposes my deeper youth's instinct to create the illusion of boundaries so I like them.

 

[Ghost]

Fe lets others' opinions affect it more than Fi does. I'm under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that Fi would be more like "Fuck you guys, I know I'm not an asshole just because you think I am."

TBH, my initial thought on reading the OP was: "I value and appreciate Fi, and that's all that matters. People who don't can go fuck themselves."

Hi, I was just wondering out of all the function why is it Fi-dom users are often expected to out of all the other types place to most importance on "developing" themselves and becoming/being more well rounded in the commonly thought of or perceived notions that they don't "understand reality" and that it's subjectively biased/useless and does not benefit anyone but the users own subjective and often biased/uselessness realities and seem to entice or provoke so much diversion or distaste?

Man, this is a long sentence. I'm only addressing parts it because I can't parse most of it.

I don't feel an expectation to develop myself a certain way because of my type. If I did feel that, I'd think the person who held such a view was an idiot because people are too diverse, even within type, for there to be one path or one solution.

It seems to me the shallower folks on typology forums are dismissive of Se and Si, while being more suspicious of Fe and Fi. I think Fe gets maligned more than Fi, yet even the narrow-minded among us seem to understand that Fe has a purpose while being baffled as to how Fi could have any purpose beyond self-absorption. There seems to be a bias towards N and T. It was probably worse years ago, though, and it's not currently at a level that bothers me much. A lot of people have taken strides to balance out how types are represented, which is pretty cool.

I think Fi is about sifting through subjective information and creating a cohesive picture from it. Instead of using universals and generalizations to describe the particular, Fi works the other way around to create universals and generalizations based on observed and imagined particulars. Many people seem more inclined to strive for objectivity from the outset. For some of those people, Fi, by its nature, can appear backwards.

I'm not a fan of the narrative a subset of INFPs espouse, mainly that everyone hates INFPs or everyone hates Fi or no one understands us. I don't feel that way or see things that way at all.

 

[Vasilisa]

"no, me!"

Let me know if I can do anything else to satisfy anyone's feels about their place in the oppression olympics. We can make this work together.

different functions, different games

so, am i the only one noticing the difference in tone these conversations have?

Ti vs. Te: "i'm more competent", "no me!", "i am better at rational understandings", "no i am!"

Fi vs. Fe: "i'm a bigger martyr", "no me!", "i am a lot more hated & misunderstood", "no i am!"

 

[highlander]

I need giphy in my posting life. Need it right now. Why I cannot [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]? Why? It's very pertinent to this heady discussion.

Sorry what are you talking about?

 

[Masokissed]

 

[prplchknz]

Yeah, I'm sure Fi users aren't as expressive irl as they are on here. Neither am I, which is why when I've seen people start complaining about things like Fe being forceful and controlling and overly expressive I get annoyed since I'm nothing like that. I have a strong 9 fix myself (half the forum is still convinced it's my core but I disagree).

My main beef is with stereotypes of the functions in general. The Fe and Si ones just hit home for me more since those are my functions, as I'm sure Fi ones affect Fi users more, etc. I can't stand being judged or seen in a wildly inaccurate way. The ones that bother me the most are the claims that Fe doesn't have any strong personal values, that they only care about what's popular in society at the time, that they can't be moral crusaders because of the hivemind, etc. And I've described my huge beef with Si stereotypes plenty of times elsewhere on the forum.

What really bothers me the most is that it seems to me like most people don't even care that they're stereotyping so wildly and inaccurately. They're totally fine saying "You're an INFP because you have strong personal values, Fe doesn't do that" or "You're an ENFJ because you care about others, Fi doesn't do that." I can't stand the what's my type subforum because the typings I see are usually extremely shallow and based on stereotypes. Just because Fi or Fe does something doesn't mean it's exclusive to the other feeling function.

To use a personal example of how I actually experience Fe, since I'm bored and on the topic: I definitely have strong values that go against the grain and I will never compromise on because they matter to me personally. That's not a strictly Fi thing. However, if I'm surrounded by people who I know don't value those things, I'm less likely to speak up in order to "keep the peace."

My sister recently told me that pretty much everyone in my family hates me. My mom thinks I'm an asshole, my extended family thinks I'm an asshole, she thinks I'm an asshole. And I found myself thinking, "I'm an asshole." Why? It's because if everyone around me is telling me I'm a certain way even though I don't think so, then they must be right and I must be wrong, otherwise I wouldn't be the only person who disagrees.

Fe lets others' opinions affect it more than Fi does. I'm under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that Fi would be more like "Fuck you guys, I know I'm not an asshole just because you think I am." Now, people water down this aspect of Fe to "they blindly subscribe to the hivemind" which is totally untrue.

Fi gets shit for being untruthfully seen as "a pretentious stuck-up stick in the mud." Though I'm less familiar with those details, since I'm not an Fi user.

I'm pretty sure your family disliking you has very little to do with your type, and if it is that's only your family.if some one hates me I don't blame it on being an INFP if some one says I hate INFPs which i've had happen on here, and i've also seen it for ISFJs but those people suck, and when that happens i do blame it on type.

 

[Yama]

Nah, I struggle with this way too much. I think either one can. All Fi means is that you are more in touch with your own personal feelings as compared to the Fe. Fe is more in touch with others' feelings as compared to Fi. This makes Fi deeply attached to things they believe in, sort of a grounding force. And Fe is someone who easily comes across as nurturing and caring, a bonding force.

Standing your own ground, specially your own family, takes awareness and a lot of courage. And it can be very painful.

I'm not nurturing at all and I'm very much in touch with my own feelings more than others'.

I'm pretty sure your family disliking you has very little to do with your type, and if it is that's only your family.if some one hates me I don't blame it on being an INFP if some one says I hate INFPs which i've had happen on here, and i've also seen it for ISFJs but those people suck, and when that happens i do blame it on type.

The example wasn't so much about the family as it was to show how Fe is more flexible and willing to cave when everyone disagrees with it than Fi is; it's where the hivemind stereotypes originated from.

 

[ThaumaturgicTheorist]

I don't know about devalued, but it's certainly misunderstood. And I don't mean that in a snide, special-snowflake kind of way, but in a more academic or technical sense.

 

[Reborn Relic]

To use a personal example of how I actually experience Fe, since I'm bored and on the topic: I definitely have strong values that go against the grain and I will never compromise on because they matter to me personally. That's not a strictly Fi thing. However, if I'm surrounded by people who I know don't value those things, I'm less likely to speak up in order to "keep the peace."

My sister recently told me that pretty much everyone in my family hates me. My mom thinks I'm an asshole, my extended family thinks I'm an asshole, she thinks I'm an asshole. And I found myself thinking, "I'm an asshole." Why? It's because if everyone around me is telling me I'm a certain way even though I don't think so, then they must be right and I must be wrong, otherwise I wouldn't be the only person who disagrees.

Fe lets others' opinions affect it more than Fi does. I'm under the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that Fi would be more like "Fuck you guys, I know I'm not an asshole just because you think I am." Now, people water down this aspect of Fe to "they blindly subscribe to the hivemind" which is totally untrue.

1. What differentiates the times you cave to the perceptions of others from the times you don't?
2. What are your core values and what are the core values of people around you?
3. How does your Ti shape your Fe/how is it shaped by your Fe?

 

[Yama]

1. What differentiates the times you cave to the perceptions of others from the times you don't?
2. What are your core values and what are the core values of people around you?

I cave when there's pressure from multiple places. Fe likes for there to be consensus (the Extroverted part of Extroverted feeling) So when Fe finds that it's the only one that doesn't see something a certain way, it questions itself, whereas an Fi user doeant require that consensus. That's not to say that Fi types can't ever want or need validarion, but it's not the same as the consensus the Fe seeks by its very nature. That's where hivemind and rigid stick in the mud stereotypes for Fe and Fi come from.

Times that I haven't caved to others only happen when I'm able to voice my worries to someone else and they give me validation. Then I get that consensus from at least somebody. But if they were to tell me the same thing I'd have a crisis.

I don't know what the values of the people around me are, you'd have to ask them. I could list my values but it seems a little embarrassing, is there any particular reason?

 

[Reborn Relic]

I cave when there's pressure from multiple places. Fe likes for there to be consensus (the Extroverted part of Extroverted feeling) So when Fe finds that it's the only one that doesn't see something a certain way, it questions itself, whereas an Fi user doeant require that consensus. That's not to say that Fi types can't ever want or need validarion, but it's not the same as the consensus the Fe seeks by its very nature. That's where hivemind and rigid stick in the mud stereotypes for Fe and Fi come from.

Times that I haven't caved to others only happen when I'm able to voice my worries to someone else and they give me validation. Then I get that consensus from at least somebody. But if they were to tell me the same thing I'd have a crisis.

Hmmm, okay. Wish I could add to my response to this but you basically answered my question. XD

I don't know what the values of the people around me are, you'd have to ask them. I could list my values but it seems a little embarrassing, is there any particular reason?

Well, I'm seeing if you find this quote, off Jung, to be valid:

n so far as feeling is, incontestably, a more obvious peculiarity of feminine psychology than thinking, the most pronounced feeling-types are also to be found among women. When extraverted feeling possesses the priority we speak of an extraverted feeling-type. Examples of this type that I can call to mind are, almost without exception, women. She is a woman who follows the guiding-line of her feeling. As the result of education her feeling has become developed into an adjusted function, subject to conscious control. Except in extreme cases, feeling has a personal character, in spite of the fact that the subjective factor may be already, to a large extent, repressed. The personality appears to be adjusted in relation to objective conditions. Her feelings correspond with objective situations and general values. Nowhere is this more clearly revealed than in the so-called 'love-choice'; the 'suitable' man is loved, not another one; he is suitable not so much because he fully accords with the fundamental character of the woman -- as a rule she is quite uninformed about this -- but because [p. 449] he meticulously corresponds in standing, age, capacity, height, and family respectability with every reasonable requirement. Such a formulation might, of course, be easily rejected as ironical or depreciatory, were I not fully convinced that the love-feeling of this type of woman completely corresponds with her choice. It is genuine, and not merely intelligently manufactured. Such 'reasonable' marriages exist without number, and they are by no means the worst. Such women are good comrades to their husbands and excellent mothers, so long as husbands or children possess the conventional psychic constitution. One can feel 'correctly', however, only when feeling is disturbed by nothing else. But nothing disturbs feeling so much as thinking. It is at once intelligible, therefore, that this type should repress thinking as much as possible. This does not mean to say that such a woman does not think at all; on the contrary, she may even think a great deal and very ably, but her thinking is never sui generis; it is, in fact, an Epimethean appendage to her feeling. What she cannot feel, she cannot consciously think. 'But I can't think what I don't feel', such a type said to me once in indignant tones. As far as feeling permits, she can think very well, but every conclusion, however logical, that might lead to a disturbance of feeling is rejected from the outset. It is simply not thought. And thus everything that corresponds with objective valuations is good: these things are loved or treasured; the rest seems merely to exist in a world apart.

Particularly the bolded and underlined.

I always thought of Fe as being actually very strongly opinionated, but the source of their opinions ultimately coming from a consensus that existed in their youth and in general society nowadays. You're aux, so there are going to be differences between you and this description, but if that's not you I'd be interested in an explanation for how the quote/bold/underlined does fit, or how everything else fits enough to make it irrelevant.

 

[EcK]

Hi, I was just wondering out of all the function why is it Fi-dom users are often expected to out of all the other types place to most importance on "developing" themselves and becoming/being more well rounded in the commonly thought of or perceived notions that they don't "understand reality" and that it's subjectively biased/useless and does not benefit anyone but the users own subjective and often biased/uselessness realities and seem to entice or provoke so much diversion or distaste?

Just curious and of course to avoid the realization or possible accusations of being "typist" many individuals outright say it, but I think it's pretty obvious and imminent in that the existence and dislike of it is real and obvious.

Because noone who isn't your friend/spouse is required to care about your feelings.

 

[Yama]

Hmmm, okay. Wish I could add to my response to this but you basically answered my question. XD

Well, I'm seeing if you find this quote, off Jung, to be valid:

Particularly the bolded and underlined.

I always thought of Fe as being actually very strongly opinionated, but the source of their opinions ultimately coming from a consensus that existed in their youth and in general society nowadays. You're aux, so there are going to be differences between you and this description, but if that's not you I'd be interested in an explanation for how the quote/bold/underlined does fit, or how everything else fits enough to make it irrelevant.

A lot of the things I value go against the grain, both in my childhood and nowadays, but they are more acceptable now than they used to be. That's why I always get irritated when I read people saying things like Fe is just blindly accepting what society values.

I have a hard time understanding what Jung is talking about in that excerpt unless you can translate it into something easier for me to understand? I agree with "I can't think what I don't feel" but I'm not sure what the large bolded part is saying exactly because I'm stupid.