[Type 7] The Wisdom of the Enneagram Seven

[senza tema]

My first true love was a Buddhist monk from England.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=22644]The[/MENTION] Wailing Spector

I used to hike supplies into the jungles of Thailand and because of this was able to spend longer periods of time with various tribes. There, I could meditate...and I can when I've been in nature for a while...like say I've been vacationing/camping for a few days and my brain has wound-down. It's a difficult thing for me though...and no, I've never heard of meditating with your eyes open.

What the hell is your new name?

 

[Riva]

I wanted to check out a zen monastary one day because even though I understand the basics, I want to be immersed at least once in my life.

Never beem to a zen monastry myself. Plenty of buddhist temples where i come from whih i seldom go to. They seldom have group meditations in temples here and they seldom to never meditate at temples. Temples have become praying places where they offer flowers, oil lamps pray to buddha.

Some temples conduct meditatiom classes but mot buddhists who are born don't meditate, don't know how to attain nirvana (satti/vipassana) and don't even think it's possible. I get often laughed at when i say it's possible in this life. Most buddhists monks at temples preach about the history of buddhism, flory of buddha and encourage people to do good deeds more than teach meditation techniques/vipassana.


I was one of these people until i met an intj whom i admire due to his maturity, helpfulness and the fact he is extremely hard working. He convinced me it's possible and tempted me to try.

Then i started reading books ironically most of which are in english.

But like i said before, nirvana shouldnt be a target. Vipassana should be used as a daily therapy and sooner or later nirvana will come (i hope).

 

[Riva]

My first true love was a Buddhist monk from England.

Lolz.

Read about tanha, rarhi, raga. I hope he disnt leave his robes to be with you .

[MENTION=22644]The[/MENTION] Wailing Spector

I use to hike supplies into the jungles of Thailand and because of this was able to spend longer periods of time with various tribes. There, I could meditate...and I can when I've been in nature for a while...like say I've been vacationing/camping for a few days and my brain has wound-down. It's a difficult thing for me though...and no, I've never heard of meditating with your eyes open.

What the hell is your new name?

Yeah wailing, what the hell!

I never see you talk about spirituality. I always wondered what it is but didnt want to impose.

I dislike moving out of the way to meditate, going to these resorts and all. Want to do it daily in my normal enviroent. However i do realize the bebefit of what you do. Qyite a lot of people do that since i have always read to understand and motivate myself i havent seen tne benefits of going out of my way to meditate yet.

 

[senza tema]

Lolz.

Read about tanha, rarhi, raga. I hope he disnt leave his robes to be with you .

OMG no. He was in his 40s. I was 15.

But he was hot and talked to me all day about life and stuff and then gave me a book on quantum physics and spirituality with a sweet dedication and omg. Such love.

 

[Starry]

Lolz.

Read about tanha, rarhi, raga. I hope he disnt leave his robes to be with you .



Yeah wailing, what the hell!

I never see you talk about spirituality. I always wondered what it is but didnt want to impose.

I dislike moving out of the way to meditate, going to these resorts and all. Want to do it daily in my normal enviroent. However i do realize the bebefit of what you do. Qyite a lot of people do that since i have always read to understand and motivate myself i havent seen tne benefits of going out of my way to meditate yet.

There are a few things that are so sacred to me that I find them difficult to talk about out in the open. There's this sense that the words I might choose or the way I may string them together will cheapen it all. Emotion, Sex, Spirituality...

I was born Catholic, raised Catholic...and will always identify as such. I've also been so fortunate in traveling all over this marble...encountering and learning from so many amazing people and incorporating other forms of spiritual though and tradition into my life.

 

[Riva]

Dammit i keep forgetting tk add this -

Despite not being a creationist believer i open to the possibility of the existence of the supernatural. However i do not believe that they come from a place of authoritay and power. Just beings like us who live and die.

And i am ready to accep i am foolish to believe their existence. However it doesnt matter whether they exist or not because i believe my afterlife (if there is one) depends on my actions, not theirs.

Also i have no issues with people who are deeply spiritual to whatever god they worship. I do see the benefits of habitual prayer. It relieves stress and temps people to be better people. And maybe just maybe miracles are also true.

Remember i am using the word spiritual here, not religious.

Hinduism captures the spiritual devotion i am trying to explain here. If i am not mistaken, they also believe in karma and that your afterlife depends on your actions, not your belief in a specifc god. Therefore when they pray/worship they pray with love and thankfulness, not due to fear or guilt of eternal damnation.

[MENTION=23222]senza tema[/MENTION] correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Starry]

my afterlife... depends on my actions

I'm feeling this so massively...

 

[senza tema]

Dammit i keep forgetting tk add this -

Despite not being a creationist believer i open to the possibility of the existence of the supernatural. However i do not believe that they come from a place of authoritay and power. Just beings like us who live and die.

And i am ready to accep i am foolish to believe their existence. However it doesnt matter whether they exist or not because i believe my afterlife (if there is one) depends on my actions, not theirs.

Also i have no issues with people who are deeply spiritual to whatever god they worship. I do see the benefits of habitual prayer. It relieves stress and temps people to be better people. And maybe just maybe miracles are also true.

Remember i am using the word spiritual here, not religious.

Hinduism captures the spiritual devotion i am trying to explain here. If i am not mistaken, they also believe in karma and that your afterlife depends on your actions, not your belief in a specifc god. Therefore when they pray/worship they pray with love and thankfulness, not due to fear or guilt of eternal damnation.

[MENTION=23222]senza tema[/MENTION] correct me if i am wrong.

No that's right. Most people worship the gods not for salvation or fear of damnation but as a source of comfort and help during the travails of daily life. And if you're looking for success in one particular area, you don't want to piss off the associated divinity.

 

[Avocado]

There are a few things that are so sacred to me that I find them difficult to talk about out in the open. There's this sense that the words I might choose or the way I may string them together will cheapen it all. Emotion, Sex, Spirituality...

I was born Catholic, raised Catholic...and will always identify as such. I've also been so fortunate in traveling all over this marble...encountering and learning from so many amazing people and incorporating other forms of spiritual though and tradition into my life.

Well, the Catholics have a pope, much like how the Jehovah's Witnesses have a governing body in Brooklyn which can never be questioned as they commune directly with Jehovah God. Both JW's and Catholics are theistic, though Catholics are trinitarian and JW's are Unitarian (no relation to Unitarian Universalists). Catholics have many holidays and traditions, but JW's only have 2, and all other "worldly" celebrations are banned. Those 2 are the "Lord's Supper", which is basically the eucharist except only for those "annointed" by the governing body, and the other is weekly door-to-door conversion effort for all members. I see many of the same problems with Catholics I see with JW's, but at least one can be culturally catholic and have cultural memories. Cultural JW doesn't really exist, since "worldly" things are shunned and the focus is on living up to "the absolute unadulterated purity of the Lord". I was the picture of the enneagram one as a child--strict with both myself and others, critical, and very conservative. I was determined to walk the straight and narrow and if I wasn't able to bring others along, their blood was on my hands. Since the JW's always taught Armageddon could never be more than a couple of weeks away, at the most, I was really aggressive in promoting JW ideology and never really had friends. I managed to get my first acquaintances that wouldn't bully towards the end of high school--all girls, but even then, I wouldn't call them my friend. Only Starry has ever filled anything remotely close to a true friend in my life, with my deceased grandmother and mother close behind. Outside of work, I haven't spoken a word to anybody in over a year. I probably misidentifed as extroverted because I try to be friendly and force myself to interact with people so I don't hurt them, but then scurry away to solitude at the first opportunity, and then moan when I have to deal with people again. Part of my psychosis stems from the fact that I was raised to believe perfection would grant me eternal youth. Now I know I will grow old, suffer, and die, just like everybody else will and always has. My goal now is to live as enjoyable of a life as possible since it is more than likely my only chance and it will not last forever. Nothing lasts forever, and nobody is really special. My mantra is that things are what they are and it is not good to get hung up on outcomes, for even homeless people have the benefit of being free from the stress of maintaining life. We all suffer, and the best we can do, as far as I can tell, is trade one form of suffering for another. Granted, I objectively believe the dissatisfaction that comes being punched by a middle aged man-child is nothing compared to the suffering experienced by those who endured the Holocaust, but I believe suffering/dissatisfaction is very subjective and relative to one's baseline of dhukka. For Donald Trump, so much beauty is taken for granted that even the slightest joke at his expense will cause him great suffering. For Viktor Frankl, simple pleasure like kindness, eating a cockroach, or seeing a sunrise gave his life meaning despite seeing thousands of mutilated bodies every day, including his own mutilated body. You see, doing Zazen during both my high emotional periods as well as my low periods has given me insight that none of us are really special, we all suffer, and that's alright.

Never beem to a zen monastry myself. Plenty of buddhist temples where i come from whih i seldom go to. They seldom have group meditations in temples here and they seldom to never meditate at temples. Temples have become praying places where they offer flowers, oil lamps pray to buddha.

Some temples conduct meditatiom classes but mot buddhists who are born don't meditate, don't know how to attain nirvana (satti/vipassana) and don't even think it's possible. I get often laughed at when i say it's possible in this life. Most buddhists monks at temples preach about the history of buddhism, flory of buddha and encourage people to do good deeds more than teach meditation techniques/vipassana.


I was one of these people until i met an intj whom i admire due to his maturity, helpfulness and the fact he is extremely hard working. He convinced me it's possible and tempted me to try.

Then i started reading books ironically most of which are in english.

But like i said before, nirvana shouldnt be a target. Vipassana should be used as a daily therapy and sooner or later nirvana will come (i hope).

When you say pray, is it anything like a Christian prayer, or is it something different?
For example, a Jehovah's Witness prayer (not sure if you know who they are) would go like this:

"Jehovah our heavenly father, I come before you to request your aid in doing your will and in helping others to come to The Truth. The signs of the last days are all around us, and I need your divine guidance to avoid being tainted by the false religions unleashed by Satan to deceive me. Please help me survive Armageddon, so I may be fruitful in your eternal paradise and enjoy the eternal youth you have provided me. Thank you for creating the beautiful world we live in, and may all come to see your perfect divine order. In your son's name Jesus, Amen."

Amen is a Hebrew word meaning so it be done. I never thought those words would enter my mind again.

 

[Avocado]

No that's right. Most people worship the gods not for salvation or fear of damnation but as a source of comfort and help during the travails of daily life. And if you're looking for success in one particular area, you don't want to piss off the associated divinity.

So, you are Hindu? I do a little bit of yoga sometimes, and before focusing more on Buddhism, I used to be interested more on Hinduism. A bit more form than I needed, though.

[MENTION=22644]The[/MENTION] Wailing Spector

I used to hike supplies into the jungles of Thailand and because of this was able to spend longer periods of time with various tribes. There, I could meditate...and I can when I've been in nature for a while...like say I've been vacationing/camping for a few days and my brain has wound-down. It's a difficult thing for me though...and no, I've never heard of meditating with your eyes open.

What the hell is your new name?

The Wailing Specter

I distinctly remember my instructor saying to never close your eyes during Zazen or you will fall asleep or daydream during meditation.

 

[senza tema]

So, you are Hindu? I do a little bit of yoga sometimes, and before focusing more on Buddhism, I used to be interested more on Hinduism. A bit more form than I needed, though.


The Wailing Specter

I distinctly remember my instructor saying to never close your eyes during Zazen or you will fall asleep or daydream during meditation.

I was raised in a Hindu family, I don't identify as Hindu per se but Upanishadic philosophy is probably closest to my spiritual beliefs.

 

[Avocado]

I was raised in a Hindu family, I don't identify as Hindu per se but Upanishadic philosophy is probably closest to my spiritual beliefs.

I looked up Upanishadic philosophy. It is rather beautiful!

 

[Starry]

Well, the Catholics have a pope, much like how the Jehovah's Witnesses have a governing body in Brooklyn which can never be questioned as they commune directly with Jehovah God. Both JW's and Catholics are theistic, though Catholics are trinitarian and JW's are Unitarian (no relation to Unitarian Universalists). Catholics have many holidays and traditions, but JW's only have 2, and all other "worldly" celebrations are banned. Those 2 are the "Lord's Supper", which is basically the eucharist except only for those "annointed" by the governing body, and the other is weekly door-to-door conversion effort for all members. I see many of the same problems with Catholics I see with JW's, but at least one can be culturally catholic and have cultural memories. Cultural JW doesn't really exist, since "worldly" things are shunned and the focus is on living up to "the absolute unadulterated purity of the Lord". I was the picture of the enneagram one as a child--strict with both myself and others, critical, and very conservative. I was determined to walk the straight and narrow and if I wasn't able to bring others along, their blood was on my hands. Since the JW's always taught Armageddon could never be more than a couple of weeks away, at the most, I was really aggressive in promoting JW ideology and never really had friends. I managed to get my first acquaintances that wouldn't bully towards the end of high school--all girls, but even then, I wouldn't call them my friend. Only Starry has ever filled anything remotely close to a true friend in my life, with my deceased grandmother and mother close behind. Outside of work, I haven't spoken a word to anybody in over a year. I probably misidentifed as extroverted because I try to be friendly and force myself to interact with people so I don't hurt them, but then scurry away to solitude at the first opportunity, and then moan when I have to deal with people again. Part of my psychosis stems from the fact that I was raised to believe perfection would grant me eternal youth. Now I know I will grow old, suffer, and die, just like everybody else will and always has. My goal now is to live as enjoyable of a life as possible since it is more than likely my only chance and it will not last forever. Nothing lasts forever, and nobody is really special. My mantra is that things are what they are and it is not good to get hung up on outcomes, for even homeless people have the benefit of being free from the stress of maintaining life. We all suffer, and the best we can do, as far as I can tell, is trade one form of suffering for another. Granted, I objectively believe the dissatisfaction that comes being punched by a middle aged man-child is nothing compared to the suffering experienced by those who endured the Holocaust, but I believe suffering/dissatisfaction is very subjective and relative to one's baseline of dhukka. For Donald Trump, so much beauty is taken for granted that even the slightest joke at his expense will cause him great suffering. For Viktor Frankl, simple pleasure like kindness, eating a cockroach, or seeing a sunrise gave his life meaning despite seeing thousands of mutilated bodies every day, including his own mutilated body. You see, doing Zazen during both my high emotional periods as well as my low periods has given me insight that none of us are really special, we all suffer, and that's alright.



When you say pray, is it anything like a Christian prayer, or is it something different?
For example, a Jehovah's Witness prayer (not sure if you know who they are) would go like this:

"Jehovah our heavenly father, I come before you to request your aid in doing your will and in helping others to come to The Truth. The signs of the last days are all around us, and I need your divine guidance to avoid being tainted by the false religions unleashed by Satan to deceive me. Please help me survive Armageddon, so I may be fruitful in your eternal paradise and enjoy the eternal youth you have provided me. Thank you for creating the beautiful world we live in, and may all come to see your perfect divine order. In your son's name Jesus, Amen."

Amen is a Hebrew word meaning so it be done. I never thought those words would enter my mind again.

Magic Qwan you know I can't read this much...

 

[Avocado]

Magic Qwan you know I can't read this much...

I'll condense it

 

[Avocado]

When Donald Trump has to listen to a joke at his expense, it is the worst thing he has ever had to endure and he suffers accordingly. When Viktor Frankl gets to eat a cockroach after being beaten for 12 hours straight, its the best thing he's ever tasted. Suffering is relative.

 

[Avocado]

Also, I am not saying JW is better. I'm just confused what it means to pray to a buddha? Are you asking for the world to change for you? That would be silly and supernatural.

 

[Riva]

Also, I am not saying JW is better. I'm just confused what it means to pray to a buddha? Are you asking for the world to change for you? That would be silly and supernatural.

I'll reply to this. Have been away froma pc these few days.

 

[Riva]

Also, I am not saying JW is better. I'm just confused what it means to pray to a buddha? Are you asking for the world to change for you? That would be silly and supernatural.

Buddhism doesnt dismiss the existence of other beings and other planets. According to buddhism there are other living being just like humans who live in better circumstances, environments, health, living conditions etc. Some of these traits could be considered supernatural. For example some of these being inject nutrition through their noses as opposed to the mouths as we do. They also have senses other than the senses us humans have. Etc

However they also live and die just like us, have flaws just like us, are imperfect just like us, are mortal just like us and are subject to their actions/karma just like us. Since they die just like us it when they die they could be born into other realms (human, hell, animal etc.). One could argue this is paradise.

However, It's NOT a permanent paradise like it is explained in abrahamic religions where you live forever and ever and ever. You die, you are born again, where you are born again depends on your karma. So being born into these heavenly realms doesn't guarantee you'd be happy forever. Basically they are like rich kids with awesome genes living in a perpetual party who could choose to live life making decisions based on their personalities. And i repeat again they are imperfect being who have negative and positive emotions just like us.

According to buddha if you accumulate good karma you could be born into these worlds; therefore he kept insisting everyone to keep doing good deeds, make self sacrifises and avoid being an asshole. However it doesn't mean you'd be permanently happy if you are born into these worlds since you have emotions both positive and negative just like humans, you can get bored and these planets though much happier than ours have their own drama.

However you DON'T HAVE TO believe in the existence of these beings because:

- You have never seem them and according to a particular sutra (kalama sutta) buddha adviced people not to believe in anything if there is a lack of evidence
- They can't decide you fate (your karma is based on your actions and intentions alone)
- They are NOT WORTHY of being worshipped according to Buddha
- And it is possible Buddha made up the existence of these worlds to temp people to do more and more good deeds/good karma and make self sacrifises. Not everyone had the ability to understand the path to nirvana therefore he might have said these to encourage people to live good lives until the day arrived them to undertamd the path. I personally don't think Buddha lied and believe these worlds exist. Infact i do a lot of good deeds hoping to be born into one of these worlds .

More

 

[Avocado]

Buddhism doesnt dismiss the existence of other beings and other planets. According to buddhism there are other living being just like humans who live in better circumstances, environments, health, living conditions etc. Some of these traits could be considered supernatural. For example some of these being inject nutrition through their noses as opposed to the mouths as we do. They also have senses other than the senses us humans have. Etc

However they also live and die just like us, have flaws just like us, are imperfect just like us, are mortal just like us and are subject to their actions/karma just like us. Since they die just like us it when they die they could be born into other realms (human, hell, animal etc.). One could argue this is paradise. However, It's NOT a permanent paradise like it is explained in abrahamic religions where you live forever and ever and ever. You die, you are born again, where you are born again depends on your karma. So being born into these heavenly realms doesn't guarantee you'd be happy forever.

According to buddha if y

When you say pray, is it anything like a Christian prayer, or is it something different?
For example, a Jehovah's Witness prayer (not sure if you know who they are) would go like this:

"Jehovah our heavenly father, I come before you to request your aid in doing your will and in helping others to come to The Truth. The signs of the last days are all around us, and I need your divine guidance to avoid being tainted by the false religions unleashed by Satan to deceive me. Please help me survive Armageddon, so I may be fruitful in your eternal paradise and enjoy the eternal youth you have provided me. Thank you for creating the beautiful world we live in, and may all come to see your perfect divine order. In your son's name Jesus, Amen."

Amen is a Hebrew word meaning so it be done. I never thought those words would enter my mind again.