Why Men Kill themselves

[Ivy]

The whole thing about men, not allowed to show any weakness is outdated imo as well. That opinion would only be hold up by the lesser intellectual fortune.
Furthermore I dont see the same reasons for an "identity crisis" for men. As it is often postulated in the media around my place, men suffer from loosing their traditional roles to woman. Didnt ever really get that, cause I can live my life without a woman and still be a man. Or better: I dont need a woman to be a man.

What I rather experience and what could be called an identity crisis, is a lot of men in grave need of partners but not able to find one. Like they never learned to be happy with themselves. Of course their may be times, you as a single may want a partner, but if that is a permanent obsession, something is wrong in the comand central.

I am ashamed of a lot of men nowadays. They chase for their obsession to find a partner and define their whole lifes around that. Instead of doing something useful, like watching television or peeing in a river. I hope wehn I grow past the age of 30 that people get more normal again.

Can I just say this brightened my day? I'm not having a good one but I like this theory of masculinity a lot. I've always been a little jelly that y'all can pee standing up without getting it all over yourselves.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The whole thing about men, not allowed to show any weakness is outdated imo as well. That opinion would only be hold up by the lesser intellectual fortune.
Furthermore I dont see the same reasons for an "identity crisis" for men. As it is often postulated in the media around my place, men suffer from loosing their traditional roles to woman. Didnt ever really get that, cause I can live my life without a woman and still be a man. Or better: I dont need a woman to be a man.

What I rather experience and what could be called an identity crisis, is a lot of men in grave need of partners but not able to find one. Like they never learned to be happy with themselves. Of course their may be times, you as a single may want a partner, but if that is a permanent obsession, something is wrong in the comand central.

I am ashamed of a lot of men nowadays. They chase for their obsession to find a partner and define their whole lifes around that. Instead of doing something useful, like watching television or peeing in a river. I hope wehn I grow past the age of 30 that people get more normal again.

I think it boils down to a drive to feel seen as competent and needed, regardless of whether it be in more or less "traditional" roles.

From where I sit, you're the one pulling it in that direction, so let's get it back on track.

Yes, when I responded to you, when you quoted a part of the original article.

 

[entropie]

Can I just say this brightened my day? I'm not having a good one but I like this theory of masculinity a lot. I've always been a little jelly that y'all can pee standing up without getting it all over yourselves.

The really bad thing is, they all can even pee in their own faces, while standing without a lot of effort. And THAT is the real problem )

I think it boils down to a drive to feel seen as competent and needed, regardless of whether it be in more or less "traditional" roles.

Thats right and I absolutely do not get why I would need that, to live my life.

 

[Xann]

Why men kill themselves: No special concern is allowed to be shown to men as a group, they are never allowed to be the victim or shown special compassion, and if they realize that they should be allowed to have their concerns validated in this regard, they deserve to be mocked.

/this thread

 

[Ivy]

[MENTION=4109]entropie[/MENTION]- Reminds me of this Pitchfork review of a Jet album:

Jet: Shine On | Album Reviews | Pitchfork

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Thats right and I absolutely do not get why I would need that, to live my life.

Some people, regardless of gender, highly value competence. Some don't. Different people, different values. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with people who value that, nor with those who don't value it.

 

[Xann]

Some people, regardless of gender, highly value competence. Some don't. Different people, different values. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with people who value that, nor with those who don't value it.

Competence is key to having a functioning, progressive society. That competence is falling out of vogue is testament to the decay that feminism has wrought on our society.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Competence is key to having a functioning, progressive society. That competence is falling out of vogue is testament to the decay that feminism has wrought on our society.

See my reply on page 2 to [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4109]entropie[/MENTION]

I would rather not have this discussion dominated by gender politics. Did I take it that direction? Maybe I did, when I replied to Ivy who was quoting part of the article, but I don't want a fucking thread about why men kill themselves turning into another argument about gender wars. Please take any discussion that isn't directly related to the OP to a new thread and I'll be happy to participate in that discussion, but not here.

 

[Xann]

See my reply on page 2 to [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4109]entropie[/MENTION]

I would rather not have this discussion dominated by gender politics. Did I take it that direction? Maybe I did, when I replied to Ivy who was quoting part of the article, but I don't want a fucking thread about why men kill themselves turning into another argument about gender wars. Please take any discussion that isn't directly related to the OP to a new thread and I'll be happy to participate in that discussion, but not here.

Gender politics are the underlying issue with why men kill themselves in greater number and with more success than females; it is by definition a gender politics issue being discussed here or else the issue weighing on everyone's mind would have been "why people kill themselves". Of course unless you only want to discuss things in superficialities that really don't have any bearing on the deeper reasons for the phenomenon, but it will be very hard to keep the thread on track because of people on both sides trying to point out obvious truths.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[Ivy]

Would that it were possible to have a discussion about gender roles without it turning into a discussion about gender politics. Let the record reflect that I tried.

 

[Xann]

Would that it were possible to have a discussion about gender roles without it turning into a discussion about gender politics. Let the record reflect that I tried.

They're at root the exact same thing as the politics side of the equation has a complete cause and effect relationship with the general public's understanding of roles. But if we want to ignore the effect that gender politics has had on male suicides then I suppose I'll be interested to see just where and how you and others are capable of taking the discussion seriously and on topic, but I'm fairly sure the OP's lack of understanding of how the issues are related will make it impossible for this thread to take off.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I don't think it's possible anymore, [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION]. To respond to [MENTION=9627]Xann[/MENTION], the idea of the disposable man predates feminism and womens' rights movements. Working class men have been regarded as disposable by both men and women for centuries, and perhaps since hunter-gatherer society. Where MRAs go wrong in this regard is in framing their movement as a response to the most toxic branches of feminist thought, rather than as a response to modes of thinking that predate feminism as a movement. Really, men's rights and women's rights should be sibling movements in a greater move toward an egalitarian society. I think the red pillers, feminist bloggers, MRA bloggers, etc are a bunch of children who don't care about egalitarianism so much as gaining the upper hand and building a society that benefits their own interests. Fuck everyone.

I'm breaking my own protocol and taking my discussion that direction. I guess it was inevitable.

 

[Lark]

Men kill themselves because of women?

I'm tried of all this BS circular logic, if you hate women and that's your bag, grand, you're not going to get anywhere with that attitude, but dont keep attempting to rationalise and generalise your personal, not to mention pathetic, grievances and grudges.

 

[Lark]

Would that it were possible to have a discussion about gender roles without it turning into a discussion about gender politics. Let the record reflect that I tried.

I think its a little bit of an insult to politics to even associate this sort of nonsense with it, it all boils down to enmity and jealousy of women, somenoe's head is fucked up with that shit and they're working hard to spread it around.

 

[Xann]

Men kill themselves because of women?

I'm tried of all this BS circular logic, if you hate women and that's your bag, grand, you're not going to get anywhere with that attitude, but dont keep attempting to rationalise and generalise your personal, not to mention pathetic, grievances and grudges.

Men are just as much (in fact even more so) to blame as women for the issue, most of it stemming from lack of understanding.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Men kill themselves because of women?

I'm tried of all this BS circular logic, if you hate women and that's your bag, grand, you're not going to get anywhere with that attitude, but dont keep attempting to rationalise and generalise your personal, not to mention pathetic, grievances and grudges.

No, I don't think that's what I'm saying, nor is the article saying that.

I think men kill themselves because they perceive themselves as incompetent in various roles--those roles vary given the circumstance. It has nothing to do with men somehow being robbed of their "traditional" roles due to the advent of gender equality. Men have either been cast aside or cast themselves aside when they have failed to meet various expectations in a variety of roles throughout history--they've always been the more disposable gender, due to nauture and survival requirements. I'm not complaining, just stating what was. Of course, in a period when disease or invading nations might threaten a population's continued survival, humanity would place the child bearers and children ahead of the men in priority. However, in an age where medicine has greatly reduced the chances of widespread death in industrialized nations, ideas and attitudes of male disposability need to be re-examined and questioned.

 

[Lark]

Men are just as much (in fact even more so) to blame as women for the issue, most of it stemming from lack of understanding.

I think if people are committing suicide there's bound to be a bunch of reasons, probably mainly personal, probably about temporary troubles or chemical imbalances in the brain and body, blaming it on structural injustice against men perpetrated by women and feminism is BS.

 

[SpankyMcFly]

All right ****ers! Enough arguing in public, jeesh. Patriarchy meeting in ventrilo in one hour.

No commies *looks in Larks direction*

 

[Xann]

I think if people are committing suicide there's bound to be a bunch of reasons, probably mainly personal, probably about temporary troubles or chemical imbalances in the brain and body, blaming it on structural injustice against men perpetrated by women and feminism is BS.

It is not people in general committing suicide who are being discussed in the article, it is about men, who commit it far more frequently than women do, and in my opinion, the points the article brings up are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the reasons for it. Temporary troubles and chemical imbalances have their own root causes as well, don't they? Fairly certain there are a ton of studies on how lack of social acceptance and connections cause depression and a host of other problems which relate back to the points the article is making.