[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[prplchknz]

I don't know what makes so many INxJs -- INFJs especially -- believe so strongly that they are open-minded. Maybe it's because they take in all possible ideas, and to them, the fact that the ideas are coming in is more important than whether the ideas actually make an impact.

My mom, thankfully, knows that she is not open-minded. But she's also a 1w2 like me, so she's unusually judgmental for an INFJ. We find solidarity in that regard!





Honestly? Sympathy. Because I don't feel a lot of empathy most of the time. And expressing sympathy makes me more likely to feel empathy. Like how smiling a lot is scientifically proven to make you happier.

no not on other people's problems other people's problems are easier

but i mean when you have an issue do you prefer them to be empathetic or sympathetic?


oh and the smiling thing is bs i tried it it made me feel worse.

 

[EJCC]

no not on other people's problems other people's problems are easier

but i mean when you have an issue do you prefer them to be empathetic or sympathetic?

Generally I prefer for them to be honest. Like, if I'm making a big deal over nothing, then tell me. Ideally you'll also validate my emotions a little -- which can be either sympathy or empathy, I think? -- but I'm not going to hate you if you don't.

But if I'm feeling really bad and need consoling, then please, empathy. Empathy all the way.

 

[Olm the Water King]

*Digression: The reason for that is that the ESTJs want to know if that contrasting opinion is actually valid, and in order to know that, they need to know that their personal reservations are baseless. I don't love arguing, and I'm not a competitive debater, but I do tend to interrogate people when they have strongly-held views that are different from mine. Sometimes when that interrogation is done, then I put on that new belief like a schmancy new jacket. It's that simple! No processing time needed, unless we get into Fi territory.

Can you give an example of Fi territory for you?

 

[prplchknz]

Generally I prefer for them to be honest. Like, if I'm making a big deal over nothing, then tell me. Ideally you'll also validate my emotions a little -- which can be either sympathy or empathy, I think? -- but I'm not going to hate you if you don't.

But if I'm feeling really bad and need consoling, then please, empathy. Empathy all the way.

I have a feeling this is true for most humans.

so why do we always offer more sympathy in the worse situations? when they don't need sympathy

 

[Cygnus]

estj

 

[EJCC]

Can you give an example of Fi territory for you?

Anything related to my moral code, my friends/family, or anything I have a strong emotional stake in. I don't know if other ESTJs have this problem, but I know I have to be VERY careful in political discussions, because my moral code is the core of my political beliefs, and if things get heated I tend to take the opposing position personally.

I have a feeling this is true for most humans.

so why do we always offer more sympathy in the worse situations? when they don't need sympathy

I think you're right.

The problem is that humans are wired to avoid pain, and empathy requires seeking that pain out and drawing from it. So empathy is really, really hard for most people.

estj

Yes

 

[Olm the Water King]

Anything related to my moral code, my friends/family, or anything I have a strong emotional stake in. I don't know if other ESTJs have this problem, but I know I have to be VERY careful in political discussions, because my moral code is the core of my political beliefs, and if things get heated I tend to take the opposing position personally.

How would you describe your moral code?

 

[prplchknz]

Anything related to my moral code, my friends/family, or anything I have a strong emotional stake in. I don't know if other ESTJs have this problem, but I know I have to be VERY careful in political discussions, because my moral code is the core of my political beliefs, and if things get heated I tend to take the opposing position personally.


I think you're right.

The problem is that humans are wired to avoid pain, and empathy requires seeking that pain out and drawing from it. So empathy is really, really hard for most people.


Yes

see i find i'm better at feeling empathy than sympathy i dunno it just feels fake and meaningless if i can't feel empathy for a situation i'll tell them

like if i'm gonna feel empathy it happens automatically but for sympathy i have to put out effort and usually it's not worth it

 

[Poki]

see i find i'm better at feeling empathy than sympathy i dunno it just feels fake and meaningless if i can't feel empathy for a situation i'll tell them

like if i'm gonna feel empathy it happens automatically but for sympathy i have to put out effort and usually it's not worth it

I am opposite. I feel different then most so I can't really feel with them. Have always been like this. What bothers most don't bother me and vice versa.

 

[EJCC]

How would you describe your moral code?

That's a tough one. I'm probably not going to describe it accurately.

General gist:

- Fairness / justice
- Kindness
- Balance between decisiveness and open-mindedness
- Civility
- Conscientiousness / being considerate
- The Golden Rule / WWJD?
- "Being a good person"
- Doing what you're best at / Realizing your full potential
- Recognizing when you are being called to action, then taking action to the best of your ability
- Various Jesuit catchphrases (finding God in all things, ad maiorem Dei gloriam, men and women for others)

 

[Sil]

How do you really perceive IJs? Especially the feeler ones?

I get along with them. The Fe users are a little more difficult, but we manage all right. It's only when it comes down to value stuff that we clash.

 

[Sil]

From my point of view EJ'S are more goal driven due to thier Je nature. Because they are goal driven they are aware that ignoring certain data is counter productive to the goal. So while they may argue at first, when they slow down and internalize or bounce ideas out of the moment they can and will adapt to meet the goal.

They are very stubborn hard headed when they are talking about why things are screwed up, but when it's about knowledge of goal driven data they are open to things that will help them reach thier goal. Pushing towards goals is a positive thing IMO for them. It keeps them open and growing.

Second paragraph is very accurate.

First...well, I think most people ignore certain data that doesn't fit their goals. Although I've always seen that to be more of a Ti thing, since it's internal oriented. Te is at least outwardly looking as part of its process.

 

[Sil]

ok so i guess i have to ask a question
do you find sympathy or empathy helps you more in situations?

and why is that?

Maybe something is broken, but I don't do sympathy. I'm pretty much empathy or nothing. I have to put myself into a person's shoes in order to know how to handle emotional things (with other people).

Empathy allows me to gauge an emotionally charged situation a lot more accurately. I have a better grasp of what kind of pain/hurt a person is experiencing. Combined with my understanding of that person, I can usually develop a good approach that is both comforting to them while not putting me in a spot that is frustrating.

It's worked well for me.

 

[Sil]

Honestly? Sympathy. Because I don't feel a lot of empathy most of the time. And expressing sympathy makes me more likely to feel empathy. Like how smiling a lot is scientifically proven to make you happier.

Can you explain how sympathy works for you? How it feels?

What's that look like from start to finish in terms of how you react and handle a situation that demands it?

Curious, since it's not something I relate to.

 

[Sil]

how fleixible are you? can you lick your own toes? not that you do but if you wanted to could you?

Not flexible at all.

 

[Sil]

but i mean when you have an issue do you prefer them to be empathetic or sympathetic?

Neither.

 

[Sil]

Anything related to my moral code, my friends/family, or anything I have a strong emotional stake in. I don't know if other ESTJs have this problem, but I know I have to be VERY careful in political discussions, because my moral code is the core of my political beliefs, and if things get heated I tend to take the opposing position personally.

Yes. I tend to stay away from these kinds of conversations because they ultimately aren't productive. Either I get worked up or the other person does (or both of us do).

And unfortunately for me, once I lose internal balance it takes me a couple of days to re-discover it. I don't like feeling out of whack emotionally (equilibrium ftw) so I don't do stuff that gets all the insides sloshing about.

On the good side, knowing myself also helps me better spot where I can and cannot engage in a worthwhile discussion. I tend to avoid arguments more easily and find people who share my interest in a dialogue rather than a debate.

I love learning new things, even if I ultimately don't agree with whatever is being presented to me. It's a shame most people see politics as a knock-down-drag-out contest. Hinders the educational aspect.

The problem is that humans are wired to avoid pain, and empathy requires seeking that pain out and drawing from it. So empathy is really, really hard for most people.

Huh. Never thought about it that way. I guess it doesn't bother me.

 

[Sil]

How would you describe your moral code?

Zippo lighter. Small, intense, and burns if you try to stick your hands in it.

 

[Sil]

[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]

You'll have to explain that rep comment sometime.

 

[chubber]

[MENTION=20044]chubber[/MENTION]

You'll have to explain that rep comment sometime.

It's delicious.