[Type 7] The Wisdom of the Enneagram Seven

[Riva]

riva, while I'm thinking this over will you do me a favor...


I am of the opinion that the member Rasofy is mistyped. Are you familiar with Rasofy? (do not mention him haha. He has an emotional side and this may be upsetting to him. I don't think he would ever read the 7s thread so I do believe we're safe here.)

He currently types as INTP 5w6 sp/sx

^how do you feel about this? what would you change if anything?

Aww.. dear ENFP, you probably don’t know about vanity searches do you? There is a way to find out ALL instances your name has been mentioned even if the @ function is used. Unless it’s a PM or a rep comment you can find it out. So this even includes the times your name has been mentioned on walls. If you don’t know let me know, I’ll gladly teach you : DDDD.

I think he is an INTP. Yes I think he is quite emotional, but I don’t think that’s the reason you doubt his type do you? You probably have to mention those points.

I see Fe in him quite a bit which might make others think he isn’t one. But I see that in ALL INTPs except for jockthemotie and stigmata. You see you can SEE your Fi at most occasions. Some Fi user said they can view their feelings as if it’s a person standing in the room with them. Although that’s obviously an exaggeration – I think – I get the picture there. It’s obviously because it’s your first two functions. Dom and Aux people can see. It does not mean you can control them and make sound decisions devoid of being overwhelmed by them but atleast you can view them.

(Infact I think most people spend most times thinking about their second function more than the fist. The dom is your default, you don’t even think about it. This doesn’t belong here of course.)

Now think about an IXTJ. They have plenty of Fi. They just don’t see it. They can’t negotiate on it. - I do understand Fi can’t be negotiated on but FPs have a bit more understanding of it so as to know when it’s influenzing them. It’s easier if you know about MBTI of course -. This is why IXTJs are so stubborn and undending at times. They always always tend to think that they are always right too and my goodness, teen IXTJs are the worst. Do you remember that kid (fireshield) who had a crush on a girl that he had a hard time expressing feelings for? He had a long freaking blog. He will never ever ever take advice from ANYONE although it’s obvious he is wrong. That’s Fi influenzing him without making him known.

Likewise, INTPs have Fe as their untapped feeling function. And negativities of this function affect them quite a bit without making them known. So they think they are being rational at all times but if that Fe fucks them up here and there without informing them and they don’t see it. Others might, they don’t. And how dare others say that they are being emotional, it’s obvious for the INTP that feelings don’t influence their decisions – so they think.

But then again you know all ^. So it might be some other reason you think he isn’t an INTP e5. You’ll have to point them out though.

But for me he is an INTP unless someone points out something I haven’t been seeing all this time.

 

[Starry]

Aww.. dear ENFP, you probably don’t know about vanity searches do you? There is a way to find out ALL instances your name has been mentioned even if the @ function is used. Unless it’s a PM or a rep comment you can find it out. So this even includes the times your name has been mentioned on walls. If you don’t know let me know, I’ll gladly teach you : DDDD.

I think he is an INTP. Yes I think he is quite emotional, but I don’t think that’s the reason you doubt his type do you? You probably have to mention those points.

I see Fe in him quite a bit which might make others think he isn’t one. But I see that in ALL INTPs except for jockthemotie and stigmata. You see you can SEE your Fi at most occasions. Some Fi user said they can view their feelings as if it’s a person standing in the room with them. Although that’s obviously an exaggeration – I think – I get the picture there. It’s obviously because it’s your first two functions. Dom and Aux people can see. It does not mean you can control them and make sound decisions devoid of being overwhelmed by them but atleast you can view them.

(Infact I think most people spend most times thinking about their second function more than the fist. The dom is your default, you don’t even think about it. This doesn’t belong here of course.)

Now think about an IXTJ. They have plenty of Fi. They just don’t see it. They can’t negotiate on it. - I do understand Fi can’t be negotiated on but FPs have a bit more understanding of it so as to know when it’s influenzing them. It’s easier if you know about MBTI of course -. This is why IXTJs are so stubborn and undending at times. They always always tend to think that they are always right too and my goodness, teen IXTJs are the worst. Do you remember that kid (fireshield) who had a crush on a girl that he had a hard time expressing feelings for? He had a long freaking blog. He will never ever ever take advice from ANYONE although it’s obvious he is wrong. That’s Fi influenzing him without making him known.

Likewise, INTPs have Fe as their untapped feeling function. And negativities of this function affect them quite a bit without making them known. So they think they are being rational at all times but if that Fe fucks them up here and there without informing them and they don’t see it. Others might, they don’t. And how dare others say that they are being emotional, it’s obvious for the INTP that feelings don’t influence their decisions – so they think.

But then again you know all ^. So it might be some other reason you think he isn’t an INTP e5. You’ll have to point them out though.

But for me he is an INTP unless someone points out something I haven’t been seeing all this time.

Aww...dear ENTP 7w8 so/sp while it is true that I don't know shit about shit as it pertains to searching for shit... and if there's a function with the word "vanity" in it I'm pretty sure Rasofy would use it haha... I'm not all that concerned because 1.) Ras is my friend and he does well to accept me at full-strength and will eventually get over it if he finds this because I'll make him...and 2.) From what Ras expressed to me...with Saft went the last of the interesting posters...and because I agree I too will take this opportunity to send this same message to Saft...but because my message includes a significantly higher number of inappropriate swear words than Rasofy's...my message will be transmitted entirely telepathically. My point though is to say I believe Rasofy may file for a Typology Central divorce here soon.

I should have said that I do not doubt INTP. Well, I mean I think it's close for him. I'm thinking he's probably more ambiverted than any of us are detecting including him...but whatever. INTP or eNTP


I think he presents with WAY too much positive outlook to truly be a 5. Vulcan is a 5...Jock is a 5...Rasofy...probably wants to be a 5 but I don't think so.


Since we were discussing enneagram...what are your enneagram related thoughts? haha.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

Does anyone here know how 7w8 sx/so would manifest in the different functions/types?

 

[Starry]

Does anyone here know how 7w8 sx/so would manifest in the different functions/types?

You've posted so many interesting things in this thread which in turn brings to the forefront of my mind my ongoing fear that my scattered self will prevent me from thinking about all the things I want to think about...discussing all the things I want to discuss...experiencing all the things I want to experience prior to stepping off this planet - so thanks dude...that's real cool of you (ha.)


What I had been meaning to tell you is 7w8 sx/so and so/sx have a tendency to 'over-extrovert' from time to time. So instead of Se>Ti...what happens is Fe's got Ti's number...so that the functions almost start to express like Se>Fe. <-When that occurs...the individual can have a bit of a Feeler feel to them. And...depending on how tests are scored...an ESTP may even receive ESFP test results due to the fact many tests merely identify the dominant function. IOW the test identifies Se as the specific dom...but only accounts for the presence of either T or F in the aux. Unfortunately, this doesn't help you if you are over-extroverting at the time of your test because the tabulation will merely assume that F is Fi...not Fe.

 

[Starry]

This whole para is a bit confusing.

^^I think it's the language barrier riva because if there's one thing I know about myself it's that I make sense. I speak, and without fail the feedback I receive from others is "I understood exactly what you just said. Thank you for making things so clear with your easy to understand communication style."

"Self-effacement" is the demonstration of modesty and humility. So when you were saying "I do have friends just very, very few" <-that's a form of self-effacement. And this ties into all of what I was describing with perfect clarity using this notion of "e7 playful". You took a playful jab at members in the photo thread...and to communicate it was all meant in fun you took a playful jab at yourself. That is the playfield of "I'm okay, you're okay." It's also why you can say things like "I'm So Cute" and no...no one's thinking *damn, riva is an arrogant bastard* People do get that you're saying that in the spirit of fun as well.

Returning to the effacement side of things though...it is easy for 7s to take jabs at themselves...and even openly share/admit to actual flaws they possess because they've got 'money in the bank' so to speak. In what may seem ironic to some idk...but when you feel relatively good about yourself there's little to no interpersonal/social risk involved when you decide to speak satirically or genuinely about your issues and flaws. You are willing to risk what for others may be thought of as 'social embarrassment' or 'possible conflict' or 'not being taken seriously' or whatever...for a high return on your investment in multiple payouts of life-enjoyment. And you can risk for fun because you have something to fall back on. Are you out looking for things like conflict? Absolutely not. In fact, someone of your placement is trying to avoid it when you can. But regardless of what things may come... You know who you are and you are okay with that person. And at the end of the day...you know that those "okay" feelings are dependent on nothing outside of your fun-loving soul.

^This is not the 9 experience. 9s don't start out with a strong sense of individuality. They don't automatically have the sense of being a singular soul in a world of interesting things to think about. To the contrary, many 9s feel they are one big universal soul and spend an incredible amount of time trying to separate out who they are from who everyone else is. Doing this can cause a bit of insecurity feeling they are unprotected. That they have a sense at times that they have no boundaries and because of this may be in danger of being subject to other people's wills...pushed and pulled about by other people's clearly identified wants, needs, desires because they don't really know and how can you assert what you don't know? How can you risk when you aren't entirely sure if you can handle the return?

Points 3-6-9 all show huge variations in expression and coping mechanisms for individuals of each type...but a common theme with 9s is a sense that they possess too much modesty...too much humility...and they'd like a little more in the way of assertive-individualism. This is why it is extraordinarily rare to hear 9s say anything negative about themselves. You won't hear them say things like "I have very, very few friends" because you're also saying "don't take what I say seriously no one else does (as evidenced by my low friend count)" <-that kind of thing is precisely the fear they are trying to rise above. They rarely, rarely joke in this way. Ixnay on the self-effacementay (<-perfect clarity.)


Rasofy... I've never allowed myself to consider his type much...putting it out of my mind as soon as my doubt would cross it because he's my friend... and you are definitely in some sketchy territory when you start to suspect a friend is mistyped 9.

What I'm trying to say to you though is I was legitimately asking you your thoughts on his type. This wasn't a trick question with a wrong answer as I truly don't know. I thought considering it might help you in your journey.


There's a part of me that thinks he may in fact be a 9w1 sx strongly connected to 3 ego/image. I think sx allows him to take jabs at others. 3 keeps him from taking jabs at himself. And when he gets emotional that's just e1 self-righteousness (haha - you're welcome Rasofy... for my friendship)

 

[Starry]

Oh Starry you don't need doubt to make a type me thread, the most important part is creating a clever title...

Okay Dr. Mobius which title do you think I should I run with?


“I Already Know You Can’t Type Worth A Shit”

“Type Me or Eat Me”

“Type Me You Forum Fuckhead"

 

[Riva]

Ooops sorry. Yes you are clear. That was a new word that confused me. Language barrier.

..but when you feel relatively good about yourself there's little to no interpersonal/social risk involved when you decide to speak satirically or genuinely about your issues and flaws.

this is spot on. most people can take a jab at themselves under these circumstances. e3s maybe not so much.

To the contrary, many 9s feel they are one big universal soul and spend an incredible amount of time trying to separate out who they are from who everyone else is. Doing this can cause a bit of insecurity feeling they are unprotected. That they have a sense at times that they have no boundaries and because of this may be in danger of being subject to other people's wills...pushed and pulled about by other people's clearly identified wants, needs, desires because they don't really know and how can you assert what you don't know? How can you risk when you aren't entirely sure if you can handle the return?

I can't relate to this at all. if indeed this is an e9 thing i am obviously not a e9. i didn't know though they try to separate thelselves from everyone else. i've heard that they feel like a part of a universal soul before but only after you explained it i get it. i thought they were cool feeling like a part of it.

if anything i feel separate. i just can't remember a single time i felt like a part of other people's will. i can think of it as a kid of course having no options and stuff but then again everyone probably has that.

i don't feel like a part of the group doing shit because everyone else want to do things. i want to do things i might enjoy but of course takes what others need into consideration. if they are happy with it i shouldnt have much of a problem. but i think at most times i would try to do things my way.

so going by your description i am either obviously not a e9 or a e9 with counter phobic 6 disintegration?

if anything i feel disgusted by having to succumb to other's wills. infact i dislike my childhood a lot. i had to submit each and eveytime. i know people say childhood is the best part of their lives but i don't think i'll ever say that or let myself say that.

You won't hear them say things like "I have very, very few friends" because you're also saying "don't take what I say seriously no one else does (as evidenced by my low friend count)" <-that kind of thing is precisely the fear they are trying to rise above.

again i didnt know this about e9s. i though they don't even realize it. or i thought they like it that way.

What I'm trying to say to you though is I was legitimately asking you your thoughts on his type. This wasn't a trick question with a wrong answer as I truly don't know. I thought considering it might help you in your journey.

no way i didnt think you were tricking me. i wasn't acting defensive was I? D

There's a part of me that thinks he may in fact be a 9w1 sx strongly connected to 3 ego/image. I think sx allows him to take jabs at others. 3 keeps him from taking jabs at himself. And when he gets emotional that's just e1 self-righteousness (haha - you're welcome Rasofy... for my friendship)

yeah well i dont see him taking jabs at himself too much. however, i can remember when i congradulated him on going on so many dates and envies the fact that he gets laid so much he said something in the lines of 'so far i haven't slept with anyone, except for my palm or something'.

i don't take jabs at myself either when i am feeling insecure. but i guess i do take jabs more often than he does. i could get really defensive sometimes.

----

still don't know how e7s disintegrate into e1s. if it's judgy, serious, not fun, stagnant, hates everyone, etc, i can relate to all that. always thought it's me disintegrating into a 6, and my stagnant side was e9s lethargy.

also can i not be a 7w6 sp/sx?

when it comes to 7 vs 9, one thing is for sure, i do come across as an e7 when interacting with people - which is probably why i get typed as a e7 and never as a e9 esp on chat -, unless there is a stronger influential force. then i spend time sizing up the situation and letting that person let out his/her extroversion. that's if i like that person or if i have to tolerate him due to other reasons.

sorry i had to highjack your thread at the moment. i am going to copy paste all these convos on my 'type me thread' later, once this is over.

 

[Dr Mobius]

Okay Dr. Mobius which title do you think I should I run with?


“I Already Know You Can’t Type Worth A Shit”

“Type Me or Eat Me”

“Type Me You Forum Fuckhead"

These are all excellent, but the second one is close to perfect. Its simple clear, and removes the need for posters to think beyond typing you, or eating you. Appealing to the lazy shallow nature of people is always a win.

Alternatively you could go with a mindfuck. I propose; “Starry: The story of an ENTJ e4”

 

[Captain_Invincible]

This is crazy, but after a lot of research and reflecting, I think I am actually an ENFJ 7w8/8w7 [still figuring that part out]. It fits much better than ESTP, imo. I know that ENFJs with that enneagram are like ESTPs, in the sense that they can be easily mistaken for each other when they get into Se/Fe Fe/Se loops. I found something interesting [well, a few interesting pages] on Funky MBTI Fiction about characters who are typed atypical ENFJs, whom I suspect share a similar enneagram to myself [yeah, I know health comes into it also, but hey, you'll see where I'm coming from, especially in the first example, if you read it]:

Nick Amaro- ENFJ

George Foyet- ENFJ

Erasing ENFJ Stereotypes

What do you think? Well, I think I am onto something here Do you?

 

[great_bay]

I find type 7's very attractive!

 

[Starry]

I find type 7's very attractive!

We think you are quite attractive as well great_bay

 

[Starry]

These are all excellent, but the second one is close to perfect. Its simple clear, and removes the need for posters to think beyond typing you, or eating you. Appealing to the lazy shallow nature of people is always a win.

Alternatively you could go with a mindfuck. I propose; “Starry: The story of an ENTJ e4”

haha. Dr. Mobius you make me happy.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Narcissism...the exaggerated sense of self-importance...is associated with entitlement. Entitlement is the feeling you have a right to something...correct? So if you purchased a grape snowcone...but the snowcone salesperson mistakenly gave you a lime snowcone instead... you would in those moments feel you had a *right* to either get your money back or have them remake what you had officially ordered. Even if you shrug your shoulders saying "no big, I like lime, I'll just eat this one"... you would still feel you had *grounds* to get what you had originally ordered served to you. That's an easily recognized instance of entitlement: I gave you my hard earned money with an expectation that I was to receive a grape snowcone in exchange. I am entitled to a grape snowcone.

Now, would you ever think to go up to a snowcone salesperson, ask for a grape snowcone and expect to receive one without paying for it? I'm not talking about stealing. I'm talking about asking and expecting to receive a snowcone...no questions asked...no exchange of goods or services.... You just ask and expect to receive one on the basis of being Magic Qwan. That's it. Would you ever have an expectation of that nature?

Because Narcissists exaggerate their sense of importance... they very often feel entitled to things without having done anything of true value to warrant receiving them. They feel they deserve things that the majority of other people do not. They don't recognize that their thinking is so very different from everyone else's because they are fixated on themselves...they can't see outside of themselves...but it is. Narcissists believe they are entitled to certain things just because they *exist* <-This is exactly what the unhealthy e7 believes.

Still with me?

Well...of course I AM WITH YOU ! But do you deserve me to be with you right now ?

If I order a Cesar salad, and those foolish waiters didn't even add in my cold plate some bloody chicken,

am I entitled "narcissist" if I ask for what I wanted to eat first ? "I WANT MY CHICKEN"


Does the way I ask for my forgotten meat is important to be kicked in the room of the Narcissists,

are some narcissists sympathical, even spiritual ?


I think we all are a bit narcissist like all children are.

But as many of us are hiding this part of their personality not to seem "childish" and to seem polite, they are not viewed as so.


I'll by the way continue to eat salads, dream about chicken, and look at myself several times in my mirror (mainly when I feel bored...but I rarely feel bored so...it is never enough !!)

until my third eye grows on my forehead.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I find type 7's very attractive!

Everybody finds us attractive.... but we are so afraid not to be if we cry

Now I understood : if I wanna see if somebody loves me instead of only "finding me attractive", I have to let myself go and listen to my own feelings./

Sometimes my tests are very tiring for the other person. Because if you are used to please others, by not pleasing them see how they view you and treat you !!


And here again, I am accused of being narcissist and only take into account my own feelings




The type 2 seems to love the type 7, I'm gonna find one

 

[Dr Mobius]

haha. Dr. Mobius you make me happy.

 

[Dr Mobius]

“Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that. And living alone won't either, for solitude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. It is the reason you are here on earth. You are here to risk your heart. You are here to be swallowed up. And when it happens that you are broken, or betrayed, or left, or hurt, or death brushes near, let yourself sit by an apple tree and listen to the apples falling all around you in heaps, wasting their sweetness.

Tell yourself you tasted as many as you could.”
-Louise Erdrich

Ha fair call Starry, fair call.

 

[Dr Mobius]

Welcome to the thunderdome [MENTION=23915]Sinclair[/MENTION].

 

[pinkgraffiti]

Everybody finds us attractive.... but we are so afraid not to be if we cry

Now I understood : if I wanna see if somebody loves me instead of only "finding me attractive", I have to let myself go and listen to my own feelings./

Sometimes my tests are very tiring for the other person. Because if you are used to please others, by not pleasing them see how they view you and treat you !!


And here again, I am accused of being narcissist and only take into account my own feelings




The type 2 seems to love the type 7, I'm gonna find one

Lol what you mean to say is you want an Fe dom to reassure you of your third function. Normal. I say so because I just noticed you're an ENTP, and me as an ENFP never thought of being in a rs with a type 2 (too sticky).

More and more I think the enneagram is delusional and should just be replaced by Jung's theory. I dont see what possibly brings together a type 7 ENTP and ENFP. It all just seems like very superficial analysis to me as the starting points are so different for both types.

Ok, well I'll just go do my thing now. Continue the fun.....

 

[Hawthorne]

Well look at this little treasure trove of a thread.

This isn't good. I'm supposed to be being productive not reading into the 7 psyche.

On the scale of 1-10, if I said wasn't sure about being a 7, how full of shit would you think I am? Note that the scale starts at 1 instead of 0.

 

[Captain_Invincible]