Why so much ESxx hate?

[ImNoBozo]

This is the most N-biased and self-serving post I've seen in a while. I'm pretty sure you're the one with a lack of depth right now if you're ruling out the idea of dating someone long term just because of a generalized profile.

People who employ type theory in their real lives to such an extent freak me out. I can't believe how easily some people forget type is ideally used for self-exploration and relationship growth, not a boyfriend checklist.

How much you wanna bet that Ni is actually Ti?

ACTUALLY, I'm extremely self aware with what I want, lack of depth? What a joke, I only pursue relationships I have deep amounts of chemistry with and mental connection with, I only have that occur with INTJs before I even know they're INTJ's. Being "lack of depth" is not being aware of your chemistry with other people, not being aware that you're clicking with them on a mental level. I just don't click with men who are sensors on a mental level, that's even before I know they're sensors. At least I'm completely honest and have said I would not do a long term relationship with him.

Get off your emotional know it all high horse, I think you're the one who lacks self awareness of mental connection with another person and whether or not you have "chemistry" with someone.

 

[HongDou]

I just don't click with men who are sensors on a mental level, that's even before I know they're sensors. At least I'm completely honest and have said I would not do a long term relationship with him.

Considering you just said that it's impossible for ENFPs and ESTPs to have fulfilling relationships, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that your opinion on the types of these men isn't probably trustworthy in the least since you seem to have a clear desire to segregate N types and S types. Also all types have potential to thrive in relationships with each other which is commonly stressed in relationship descriptions so saying that you only have chemistry with certain types is still narrow-minded. But considering you came into a thread trying to tone down the widespread internet prejudice against ESxx types just to say that ESTPs have no depth I don't even know why I'm surprised that I'm calling you narrow-minded at this point.

Get off your emotional know it all high horse, I think you're the one who lacks self awareness of mental connection with another person and whether or not you have "chemistry" with someone.

I don't know where you're getting that I lack self-awareness other than the fact that I just called you shallow and you want to yell at me in response. Try harder next time. Two of my best friends are ESTPs and we have amazing chemistry which is important for me in my relationships (as it is for literally everyone else in a healthy state of mind).

Good luck with your INTJ boyfriend hunt though. I'm sure a real INTJ man would LOVE to hear that you're dating him because he's an INTJ.

 

[ImNoBozo]

Considering you just said that it's impossible for ENFPs and ESTPs to have fulfilling relationships, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that your opinion on the types of these men isn't probably trustworthy in the least since you seem to have a clear desire to segregate N types and S types. Also all types have potential to thrive in relationships with each other which is commonly stressed in relationship descriptions so saying that you only have chemistry with certain types is still narrow-minded. But considering you came into a thread trying to tone down the widespread internet prejudice against ESxx types just to say that ESTPs have no depth I don't even know why I'm surprised that I'm calling you narrow-minded at this point.



I don't know where you're getting that I lack self-awareness other than the fact that I just called you shallow and you want to yell at me in response. Try harder next time. Two of my best friends are ESTPs and we have amazing chemistry which is important for me in my relationships (as it is for literally everyone else in a healthy state of mind).



Good luck with your INTJ boyfriend hunt though. I'm sure a real INTJ man would LOVE to hear that you're dating him because he's an INTJ.

I only dated ESFP men in college, there was no depth. You're a fool who likes to argue, I know what I want, and I'm honest about that, and for whatever reason, that bothers you. You are easily triggered and a reactionary type, it's kind of hilarious and cute. Please invest your time in caring about something else.

Also I am talking to an INTJ, we met online in a forum especially for ENFP's and INTJ's, so yes, he knows why we're together, why I like him, and I know why he likes me, he's with me because he finds he's only understood by ENFP women and is only interested in ENFP. If you knew anything about INTJ men, you would know that they have a checklist for a romantic partner -- literally, once they meet a woman who meets all those things on his checklist, he's in love.

Shoo mosquito. Shows how much you comically don't know.

 

[HongDou]

Also I am talking to an INTJ, we met online in a forum especially for ENFP's and INTJ's, so yes, he knows why we're together, why I like him, and I know why he likes me, he's with me because he finds he's only understood by ENFP women and is only interested in ENFP. If you knew anything about INTJ men, you would know that they have a checklist for a romantic partner -- literally, once they meet a woman who meets all those things on his checklist, he's in love.

well...i guess if you're gonna be shallow you might as well date someone else shallow this is hilarious. anyways i'm gonna stop derailing this thread despite your incessant negativity. have fun with your "relationship"!

 

[ImNoBozo]

well...i guess if you're gonna be shallow you might as well date someone else shallow this is hilarious. anyways i'm gonna stop derailing this thread despite your incessant negativity. have fun with your "relationship"!

The only negativity here is you -- you're the one who started this tirade with me, getting mega butt-hurt and offended when there was no offense being intended. You're extremely sensitive and over-reactive.

A "shallow" relationship is not being honest with yourself about what you want. Being in a relationship with someone because they can provide you with financial security, have common shared interests with you, being attractive, is not enough.

A "shallow" relationship doesn't care for clicking with someone on all levels -- emotionally, mentally, intellectually. MBTI is more than often, a very accurate tool, at least in my experiences, in predicting whether or not I'll click with someone.

You don't care to date someone you don't click with and doesn't get you the way you need them to and you don't understand them? OK, that's your prerogative, and a very shitty one at that.

You took my opinion way too personally when I said I wouldn't consider a long-term relationship with an ESTP, only something casual because they don't provide me with the depth of mental stimulation I crave -- your response is very amateur, reactionary, and beta behavior. It's because I do not click with ESTP's and all Sensors, not just only ESXX's.

So calm the fuck down.

Ironically you don't do a very good job in refuting the negative image often associated with ESXX's.

 

[Cygnus]

maybe it's because ESXX are generally the least introspective and philosophical of all types. That can be annoying to the I and N types

EUPHORIC

 

[HongDou]

You don't care to date someone you don't click with and doesn't get you the way you need them to and you don't understand them? OK, that's your prerogative, and a very shitty one at that.

What are you even trying to say here? That I don't date people who I don't click with? Um, that's how dating works - you either click with someone and date them or you don't and don't date them; I don't see how that's a shitty prerogative. I can't even see where you're getting these ideas of how I date people anyways since I haven't disclosed much information here.

You took my opinion way too personally when I said I wouldn't consider a long-term relationship with an ESTP

Considering my closest friends are ESTPs who are multidimensional people with a great amount of depth, I wonder why. But you're right I may have been too reactive. If you're calling people like my friends, who I have heartfelt and meaningful connections with, shallow then it's only natural.

your response is very amateur, reactionary, and beta behavior.

What the hell is beta behavior?

It's because I do not click with ESTP's and all Sensors, not just only ESXX's.

Like I've been saying, if you say you don't click with Sensors as a whole then you're not using MBTI correctly. MBTI isn't meant to discriminate and prevent you from forging new relationships, it's to help you understand yourself and others so, yes, you can mentally and emotionally understand each other even more and achieve a more fulfilling relationship. Yet from what it sounds like here if a guy told you he was an ESTP or ISTJ you wouldn't even give him a chance. That's what seems shallow to me. And no matter how picky you may make yourself out to be, I still doubt that you would be unable to click with every single Sensor type out there in existence.

Ironically you don't do a very good job in refuting the negative image often associated with ESXX's.

Well that's good because I don't even remember trying to refute any negative stereotypes considering you didn't present any. But hey half of this forum still thinks I'm an ENFP and I'm still on the fence so...if so welcome to the world of liking/disliking people regardless of their type.

 

[á´…eparted]

You don't care to date someone you don't click with and doesn't get you the way you need them to and you don't understand them? OK, that's your prerogative, and a very shitty one at that.

LMAO. That's not shitty, that's called being intelligent and discretionatory with people, which works quite well in the get go of relationships. You do the same thing, just in a different manner, and I'd argue that your method at doing so is much more faulty.

 

[Pionart]

Um, given the context of the rest of ImNoBozo's post, I think it's clear they meant the OPPOSITE of what you guys are interpreting them to have said. They are saying they would date someone if they do click and have understanding.

I think ESTP and ENFP is a pretty good pairing but so is ENFP and INTJ.

 

[chubber]

ESFJs are fine, until everything goes wrong. Anything more than a week, and we have our hands around each other's necks.

I think ESTJs are the funniest people on the planet, 1 week of time is enough with them too. a small break and back to work again.

 

[DreamBeliever]

I don't get the hate, either. In college, one of my best friends has been an ESFP. We only started losing touch when he changed schools, so he could be closer to home. Actually, the only good friendship, that I know of, that I've had with an INxx type has been with an INFJ. I like easy going, fun people, anyway, so I'd say I have a positive bias towards ExxP types. I joke about not getting along with certain types sometimes, but I think it has more to do with how healthy they are & less to do with their personality type. I just find ExxJ types too planned sometimes, but I have a good ENFJ friend that I'm thankful for, & I've had some great talks with an ENTJ I know. I wouldn't not date someone based on their mbti type. I think that's foolish. I enjoy some ENFPs as much as I enjoy some ISxJs. Other than getting a better understanding about how others see the world, what does it matter?

 

[ceecee]

If you knew anything about INTJ men, you would know that they have a checklist for a romantic partner -- literally, once they meet a woman who meets all those things on his checklist, he's in love.

No.

 

[prplchknz]

i dunno if you want to have sex with them if they say yes have sex if they say no don't.

 

[Slate]

When most people display an unusual amount of negative attention to a type range such as ESXX, its mostly due to a personal deficit and directing the blame elsewhere. The other reason is narcissism.

People are multidimensional and have to be to operate in the world. How many of us have been put into situations where we were uncomfortable but had to push through regardless? The whole basis of personality (jung's work included) was to have personalities be based on disorders, which came about by talking to his troubled patients. Thus the goal of it was to reduce these extremities (personalities) and strive for a more balanced state. Our modern personality system DMS 5 works the same way, with thresholds of extreme as indicators of unhealthiness

Personally defective INXX's have two choices 1) work on those problems 2) Deflect their faults.

The remedies for INXX personality disorders are traits which ESXX exhibit with grace. So what you see on the forums is unhealthy and deflecting INXXs. It really isn't much more complicated that that.

The last reason for the hate is that any narcissist who jumps on the MBTI and skims the surface will have their narcissism feed by self typing as an intuitive. While ESXX would represent a large portion of the world which would be beneath them furthering their line of thinking. The MBTI is so deliciously flawed that even if the users system of typing was that any person who annoys me is an S and any person who is cool as an N, the system still "flows".

I don't really see the need to seek feigned approval or to beat them into submission into learning how to perpetuate their thoughts in a more indirect socially acceptable manner. They picked one way to cope with themselves, we are free to choose the other.

 

[chubber]

When most people display an unusual amount of negative attention to a type range such as ESXX, its mostly due to a personal deficit and directing the blame elsewhere. The other reason is narcissism.

People are multidimensional and have to be to operate in the world. How many of us have been put into situations where we were uncomfortable but had to push through regardless? The whole basis of personality (jung's work included) was to have personalities be based on disorders, which came about by talking to his troubled patients. Thus the goal of it was to reduce these extremities (personalities) and strive for a more balanced state. Our modern personality system DMS 5 works the same way, with thresholds of extreme as indicators of unhealthiness

Personally defective INXX's have two choices 1) work on those problems 2) Deflect their faults.

The remedies for INXX personality disorders are traits which ESXX exhibit with grace. So what you see on the forums is unhealthy and deflecting INXXs. It really isn't much more complicated that that.

The last reason for the hate is that any narcissist who jumps on the MBTI and skims the surface will have their narcissism feed by self typing as an intuitive. While ESXX would represent a large portion of the world which would be beneath them furthering their line of thinking. The MBTI is so deliciously flawed that even if the users system of typing was that any person who annoys me is an S and any person who is cool as an N, the system still "flows".

I don't really see the need to seek feigned approval or to beat them into submission into learning how to perpetuate their thoughts in a more indirect socially acceptable manner. They picked one way to cope with themselves, we are free to choose the other.

There is also the possibility that the ESXX could be defective and since the rest of the world are like them, they don't have to excuse themselves, while the INXX has to. Because the ESXX are seen as "normal" since normal represents the majority.

ESXX, could be unhealthy in their own unique way.

The main driver to the ESFJ personality is Extraverted Feeling, whose function is to judge the relative human value of the ideas, behaviours, situations and objects they perceive. The resulting world view is tidy, and ordered according to its worth to the ESFJ's own particular character: "Everything has its place and everything in its place". If this picture of the world is threatened by external influences, the ESFJ generally tries to shut such new information out of their lives. This is totally natural, and works well to protect the individual psyche from getting hurt. However, the ESFJ who exercises this type of self-protection regularly will find they can only connect and relate with those who do not actively disturb their increasingly narrow and rigid world view. They will always find justification for their own inappropriate behaviours, and will always find fault with the outside world for problems that they have in their lives. It will be difficult for them to maintain the flexibility needed for a healthy relationship with the messy world outside because the differing ways others value things is a constant affront to their personal judgements.

It is not an uncommon tendency for the ESFJ to support their feeling judgements by selectively using only their immediate perceptions of a situation and how it appears to them. However, if this tendency is given free reign, the resulting ESFJ personality is too self-centred to be happy or successful. The ESFJ's auxiliary function of Introverted Sensing must be allowed to grow beyond this limit, where it is used only to support Extraverted Feeling judgements. If the ESFJ uses Introverted Sensing only to serve this purpose, then the ESFJ is not using Introversion effectively at all. As a result, the ESFJ does not sufficiently recognise and understand the vast number of contingent and differing ways in which the world is perceived by others. They see nothing but their own perspective, and deal with the world only so far as they need to in order to support their perspective. These individuals usually come across as somewhat illogical and full of fixed and often rather staid or conventional ideas about the world. Other people are often surprised by the simplicity, ambiguity and often unrelenting vehemence of their ideas.

And as you can see, even if they do happen to be healthy. The INXX is going to upset their point of view pretty easily, as is the ESXX going to upset the INXX point of view. As long as both are aware of this, it could be fine. But as you clearly stated there are more ESXX in the world and there for they walk around thinking that they are the normal ones.

 

[Slate]

There is also the possibility that the ESXX could be defective and since the rest of the world are like them, they don't have to excuse themselves, while the INXX has to. Because the ESXX are seen as "normal" since normal represents the majority.

ESXX, could be unhealthy in their own unique way.



And as you can see, even if they do happen to be healthy. The INXX is going to upset their point of view pretty easily, as is the ESXX going to upset the INXX point of view. As long as both are aware of this, it could be fine. But as you clearly stated there are more ESXX in the world and there for they walk around thinking that they are the normal ones.

Your thoughts are your own, I'm perfectly fine with that, but don't twist what I'm saying.

My argument line to the OP focuses on unhealthy INXX individuals as an explanation for what people occasionally see on the board, in no way are all INXXs oozing with angst over ESXXs writing angry threads/posts on their inability to cope with the world, healthy people are adaptable, perhaps I didn't articulate that well enough. Your argument line labels all ESXX as irksome, inherent to the type range regardless of their level of balance.

Clearly we are not talking about the same thing. Your critique would have made sense if my argument was binary as well throwing the blame on all INXXs, simply put mine wasn't. My argument line recognizes 4 categories (IN healthy, IN unhealthy, ES healthy, ES unhealthy), yours effectively chalks it up to 2 (IN, ES).

I also don't think you truly appreciate how radically different and wide of a range in functions when we talking about when discussing ESXX as a singular behavioral norm. This group has entirely different functions within their top 4. Which given the sheer ambiguity kind of tells me its more of the concept of an ESXX rather than any actual behavior trait that you dislike.

 

[chubber]

Your thoughts are your own, I'm perfectly fine with that, but don't twist what I'm saying.

My argument line to the OP focuses on unhealthy INXX individuals as an explanation for what people occasionally see on the board, in no way are all INXXs oozing with angst over ESXXs writing angry threads/posts on their inability to cope with the world, healthy people are adaptable, perhaps I didn't articulate that well enough. Your argument line labels all ESXX as irksome, inherent to the type range regardless of their level of balance.

Clearly we are not talking about the same thing. Your critique would have made sense if my argument was binary as well throwing the blame on all INXXs, simply put mine wasn't. My argument line recognizes 4 categories (IN healthy, IN unhealthy, ES healthy, ES unhealthy), yours effectively chalks it up to 2 (IN, ES).

I also don't think you truly appreciate how radically different and wide of a range in functions when we talking about when discussing ESXX as a singular behavioral norm. This group has entirely different functions within their top 4. Which given the sheer ambiguity kind of tells me its more of the concept of an ESXX rather than any actual behavior trait that you dislike.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You know, I think ESxx types really get a bad rap.

 

[violet_crown]

This thread is kind of funny because ESxx comprise several, reasonably distinct personalities.

I tend to get on better with ESPs than ESJs as there less room for conflict of interest. ESTPs and I have a sorta mutual nullifying effect on each other. I tend to make them feel stupid, and they tend to make me feel like a complete, pretentious dweeb lol.

EJs are mutually incomprehensible to each other as we have decidedly different goals, but similarly high handed, directive approaches to getting things done. ESFJs are the best example of this. Fe is basically foreign to me, so I just see some manipulative, demeaning, self-righteous asshole making a huge fuss over correct place settings or something, and I feel I must destroy them for the good of mankind. ESFJs see something similar with me, I'm sure, although I'm less convinced that they usually know what I driving towards. The inexplicability probably makes the behavior even less tolerable.

 

[Coriolis]

You know, I think ESxx types really get a bad rap.

You could say the same thing about INTx's, and other types as well.