The Bystander Effect: why people in groups suck

[miss fortune]

I recently was nearly robbed and broke my kneecap in the process. Somewhere around 30 people could clearly see the entire thing go down, and yet only one person came by to ask if I was ok. WTF is with people?!?

There have been a lot of studies on group dynamics of crowds in response to traumatic events occurring, and many examples as well, the most famous being that of Kitty Genovese who was stabbed to death within easy seeing and hearing range of 38 of her neighbors in NYC in 1964. The usual theory on this is that diffusion of responsibility leads people to inaction- the thought that "someone else could do something- they see it happening too."

Some people, though, decide to act in such situations and actually DO something to help, though these people are said to be few and far between.

Any other ideas on why people are so careless or ballless in such situations, or does the fact that it could easily be somebody else's problem just about cover it? This question has been bothering me a bit recently

 

[Wolf]

This is the very reason you want to support CCLs. See, people that are up for carrying firearms are sheepdogs, and that means they're going to help.

That person that bothered you could have been on the ground crying for mommy if I was there and legally allowed to carry a gun. I have no qualms with scaring the feces out of some punk that wants to mess with someone, but I am not intimidating on my own. If they produce a weapon, I'd be happy to take them out of the gene pool, no questions asked.

 

[Jeffster]

I know there have been times when I was paralyzed with fear, and other times I have fed off my fear and acted quickly to help someone. I don't honestly know why I'm not consistent in that area, or what I would've done if I witnessed what happened to you. I'd like to think I would've helped but then recently I saw a kid on a bike get hit by a car and I just sat there staring at him, like I was watching a movie and it wasn't real. Thankfully he was okay, but I felt kinda mad at myself for not reacting quickly in that situation. I guess I have been too comfortable lately, and my crisis monitors are shot or something.

I wouldn't even begin to guess what other people are thinking in those situations, I can't even explain myself, much less other people.

 

[miss fortune]

I was actually chasing the mother****er down after he broke into my apartment- he should be glad that I wasn't armed, as my first impulse would have been to shoot him in the back as he ran away Being a klutz, I tripped, fell and broke my patella and couldn't walk... only one person came by at all.

It annoyed me because I've always been the type to step into disputes to calm things down, to return lost kids to thier parents and to help victims of stuff :steam: So much for one good turn deserving another!

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

It annoyed me because I've always been the type to step into disputes to calm things down, to return lost kids to thier parents and to help victims of stuff :steam: So much for one good turn deserving another!

My hypothesis is that this sort of thing is typical for ENTP's. I think our minds are naturally looking toward the big picture while being fairly disconnected with ourselves. We imagine how each person should act to make society run smoothly and then that is how we act without really considering how this affects us purely as individuals. Other people first consider their personal safety or other priorities they might have that affect them personally. Although I wouldn't be surprised if ESTP's would act like this as well. They tend to lack self awareness similarly to ENTP's.

 

[VanillaCat]

I saw an old lady fall and I was going to help her but it took too long for my mind to process the whole thing. I mean I saw her but then I was like, "Maybe she will get up on her own? (She did)" and I'm all like "Was that really an old lady?" Basically, I thought too much and by the time I was over there, she was up already.

 

[Tallulah]

I would have definitely tried to see if you were okay.

I think part of the thing with the Genovese story, is that people don't want to endanger themselves in an effort to help others. They'll call the police, or maybe if they had a gun, they'd feel brave enough to do something. But they don't want to be a target themselves.

I pass plenty of people broken down on the highway. I usually call the local or state police, but I will not stop to help, myself. I'm a 5'3" blonde chick, and I have heard too many stories of people using a fake breakdown as bait to get people to stop. I'm not putting myself in danger. Similarly, I'm not picking up hitchhikers.

It's sad that we live in a society where we have to be so wary of each other, but it's kind of unwise not to be.

 

[Totenkindly]

...There have been a lot of studies on group dynamics of crowds in response to traumatic events occurring, and many examples as well, the most famous being that of Kitty Genovese who was stabbed to death within easy seeing and hearing range of 38 of her neighbors in NYC in 1964. The usual theory on this is that diffusion of responsibility leads people to inaction- the thought that "someone else could do something- they see it happening too."

Actually I think this reason is a pretty good one, and it's what various studies have shown. (Another interesting study was where they put a student taking a test in a room, then blew smoke through the ventilation. If there were other students in the room who ignored the whole thing or downplayed it, the test subject did the same even if the air got very hazy. If the subject was the only one in the room, they usually immediately went to get the instructor.)

The point is that people tend to take their cues from others if others are present.

Now, some people will break the system and intervene anyway. There are zillions of reasons why someone might or might not do so. They might be kind by nature. They might have been the eldest kid in a single-parent family. Contrastingly, they might want to help but have had a lousy day and feel like crap and so they wait to involve themselves. Perhaps the situation doesn't seem dangerous to them although it does to others; or perhaps it's the reverse.

It's enough even to raise the stakes in the scenario; people who might not help if someone drops her groceries might be more apt to help if they saw a car catch on fire on the highway (because someone could die, so it's more important they help). Or perhaps the higher threat of the latter case will make them less likely to act and they're more apt to help in the less-threatening scenario.

Anyway, I don't think it's carelessness or ballslessness, although when you've been victimized, it's easy to feel that way... especially if you are the sort who WOULD help someone else. (And... I'm sorry about what happened. )

 

[phoenix13]

Explanations I pulled from my bum:

1) Isolation from fellow man.
People tend act out of empathy. Letting someone suffer causes harm to the observer.
In the old days when all peoples lived in villages (what a great way to start*), people were genuinely invested in each other personally. Currently, chances are slim that you know everyone in your "village," and watching another is not as painful.

2) Culture: sometimes kindness needs to be taught.

3) conservation of energy. If it's not major and you think someone else will take care of it (dilution of responsibility as you said), and you don't particularly care about that person, why not conserve energy and do nothing.

 

[Night]

My hypothesis is that this sort of thing is typical for ENTP's. I think our minds are naturally looking toward the big picture while being fairly disconnected with ourselves. We imagine how each person should act to make society run smoothly and then that is how we act without really considering how this affects us purely as individuals. Other people first consider their personal safety or other priorities they might have that affect them personally. Although I wouldn't be surprised if ESTP's would act like this as well. They tend to lack self awareness similarly to ENTP's.

I can't speak for my entire type, but I can tell you that I wouldn't hesitate to intervene. I have a powerful protective urge - especially as it pertains to apparent victimization.

The only fights I've gotten into during my adult years were defensive in nature.

Krav Maga is handy.

 

[proteanmix]

I'm so sorry whatever. My nosy ass would've come to see what was going on and I'm really not just saying that!!

Sometimes it's hard to tell when people are really in trouble in your particular situation or when it's a bunch of drunk people being loud. I've heard lots of girls screaming help but they were just joking around. If you live in a college environment or next to a hotspot it's not unusual for people to ignore screams or loud noises because they happen so frequently. How do people know when someone genuinely needs help or not?

I remember my mother saw unfamiliar people coming in and out the neighbors house during the daytime while the neighbors were away at work. She called the police and they got in contact with our neighbors. The neighbors were upset at my mother for calling the police and told her she needed to mind her own business (they knew the people). Another horror story is one of my mother's friends was dead in her home for a week before anyone found out. People send mixed signals, they want you there when they're in trouble but any other times they're sending strong "KEEP OUT" signals.

I bought my friend this completely useless 20 inch metal pencil from Pottery Barn that's good for cracking someone's skull open if ever the need arises. They're on sale. Buy one and get to thwapping!

 

[norepinephrine]

I saw an old lady fall and I was going to help her but it took too long for my mind to process the whole thing. I mean I saw her but then I was like, "Maybe she will get up on her own? (She did)" and I'm all like "Was that really an old lady?" Basically, I thought too much and by the time I was over there, she was up already.

I had a similar experience with an elderly woman. I was waiting for a bus and scanning my surroundings and one minute she was walking, the next she'd tripped on the curb and was flat on her back. And in that particular instance, I was up and walking over to her before I had a chance to think about it, even though there wasn't a whole lot I could do once I got there except acknowledge that she wasn't alone and help her get a kleenex out of her pocket.

But yeah, other people just walked by. A clerk from the nearest store was the only one who came out and took over (calling an ambulance, assessing her injuries).

The other time I had an opportunity to act while everyone else was standing around was when the youth pastor managed to set a box full of tissue paper on fire. Fortunately, it was similar to a pizza box, with a fold-over lid. So while the rest of them seemed mesmerized by the pretty fire, I walked over and put the lid down, smothering the flame.

Then I went back to my seat.

 

[Domino]

I recently was nearly robbed and broke my kneecap in the process. Somewhere around 30 people could clearly see the entire thing go down, and yet only one person came by to ask if I was ok. WTF is with people?!?

My poor honey!! I would have knocked you to safety into a pit of pandas then beat the fool down with my shoe!! :steam:

The group mentality happened A LOT in my old neighborhood. Bad things were always going down there and no one wanted to get trapped in it. However, I'm almost always the first person to call the police or for help when someone gets injured because I automatically assume that no one's done it yet.

 

[prplchknz]

People in today's society tend to avert their eyes, it's like no one except them exists. At least that's been my expierence, it's amazing that no one cares anymore. I have a feeling it has to do alot with some laws, in place. And the fact that some people are sue happy, I would probably go over to see if you were alright, and try to help. Though I've also been conned by people when I've been nice as well. It's kinda tricky to know who to trust and it's probably easier to trust no one, then it is to take a chance and help. I wonder if we can't ever get back to the point (if it ever existed) where people will stop and care about someone else. People will notice things, help when they can instead of being like well it's not safe (according to the government [it seems like] nothing's safe except walling yourself up).


Think about from the time we've been kids we were told not to talk to strangers, you're neighbor might be a serial killer/rapists don't trust him. He's crazy don't talk to him, don't do this you might get hurt. No no don't help that person, they might be faking so they can mug you. Take care of yourself. etc So I wonder if this has anything to do with it. Then the news doesn't help.

 

[Domino]

Never fear! I'd fight for your spooning computer bananas, Purple!

 

[prplchknz]

Never fear! I'd fight for your spooning computer bananas, Purple!

my philosophy is for these situations is it's better to risk your life then be responsible for the downfall of someone who really needs help.

plus I think alot of this fear installation is a ploy to seperate us from our humanity.

 

[Domino]

We have become unpleasantly compartmentalized.

 

[CzeCze]

Maybe someone else has mentioned this, but it's been found that humans gauge their responses by others. "Monkey see, Monkey do" --> such an insulting way to put it.

You might notice something, and then you'll look around to see what other people are doing. If everyone else seems cool, you'lll ignore it and continue with what you are doing. If someone (or more likely a number of people panic) then everyone goes into emergency mode.

In those ''instant'' modes where everyone collectively freezes and looks at each other, that's kinda the crucial moment. If one single person does not initiate action or call the alarm, folks will get caught in that 'what's going on' helpless mode -- like Jennifer's students in a smoky room scenario.

In the air, flight attendents call it the passenger ''geese effect' or something, but then, in that situation the flight attendants are the designated people to handle emergencies and disputes and mobile while passengers are immobile, so I dunno, it's a different dynamic.

I think people are afraid to stick their necks out usually -- for safety reasons and also because it takes not caring about the unknown or being the one ''out there'' and in the spotlight so to speak.

I think there are some personalities that are definitely the ones more likely to help out and situations where the same bystander will be more likely to help than others. One thing in common is any kind of fear or helpless hesitation is totally overrided by confidence, concern, feeling of responsibility, familiarity etc.

As for ''confidence and responsibility and familiarity'' like what I was saying before in the 'geese' and flight example, flight attendants are much more confident in that environment and feel responsible and are much more familiar with what to do -- because they ARE. They are familiar with the plane and procedures (literally, what to do and how to do it in response to various situations) and get a lot of training and are in the official ''I work here mode''

I think when all things are equal and everyone's a bystander on the street, you aren't in a formal group setting (like a club, or class), and you see something happen, it's very likely most or not all people will look around, see everyone else looking around or ignoring it and basically not physically reacting, etc. and then get the cue it's not a real emergency.

For my part, I wouldn't run after someone because I doubt I could catch them, and if I did, I have no idea what I would do then. I would however, have called the cops (the designated ''experts''). And I have called the cops in the past.

And sorry about your knee, dang. And the whole situation, I'd feel so violated (and pissed) if someone broke into my house.

 

[colmena]

I hope you get better soon, whatever. Knee stuff is that annoying kind of pain.

5 Psychological Experiments Expose Our Dark Side


On the other hand, if I get hurt, I really don't like people being near me. I think I assume other people are the same, but I know they're not. Obviously it's different when there's a mugger involved.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I can't speak for my entire type, but I can tell you that I wouldn't hesitate to intervene. I have a powerful protective urge - especially as it pertains to apparent victimization.

The only fights I've gotten into during my adult years were defensive in nature.

Krav Maga is handy.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to describe my type as exceptionally virtuous. In fact ENTP's can be sneaky, conniving bastards a lot of times. I was actually reflecting more on the topic of the thread, because I've heard other ENTP's say things like this before, and I've thought things like this before too.

In general ENTP's generate a vision of how the world ought to work, and then they conform to that vision according to what "role" they are playing at the time. It's like we are just one actor in some giant play. For example a burglar ought to steal and try to escape, while the victim should either give chase or call the police. Any watching bystanders should come to the aid of the victim. See I could easily be any of these roles. My modern self wouldn't be the burglar, but I could easily imagine a younger version of myself doing that sort of thing. And afterward the main thing I'd be thinking is, "What the hell? Why didn't those people try to stop me? What is wrong with this world?" I wouldn't have a problem with my conscience as much as dissonance in my worldview.