[ENFP] So this infamous ENFP "Te Bitchslap".....

[Starry]

Arent you even going to ask if he deserved it?

I wasn't really thinking along the lines of whether the person(s) deserved it or not. I was assuming they probably did (or at least hoping they did LOL). I was just standing in awe of differing ways of handling differing situations - in this case the Te-fail-slap. If someone behaved especially heinous with me it wouldn't occur to me to 'use them up for what I could before...' I don't have that kind of staying-power. Instead...I would merely *magically disappear*. And this might be part of why I am so 'behind' in life LOL! I'm just a big, dumb, squishy-softy ENFP!!! That wants cookies.

 

[Amargith]

So this emotional distancing through detachment implies there are many issues which you have been bottling up and didn't want to ignite any emotional Te trip. However, would you consider you're applying this strategy just to "cool it off" or rather that you've given up on this person whom you're in conflict with? Like almost given up on re-bridging?

By the way, I can learn many essential things from your posts under this thread. Thank you for posting this.

Ahhh I should've been clearer. This is a strategy I use with what I call 'nibblers'. People who approach me, with whom I don't really have a strong emotional bond, and start digging away at me and trying to get me on the defensive or manipulate me in some way. I tend to know just enough about them to be able to put a mirror in front of them to shake them up and make them realize that they should find another victim. I prefer using Fi instead of Te to deal with people as I am afraid of using Te as a bulldozer and burning bridges in that way though I'm slowly and reluctantly learning that sometimes (especially when you wanna get shit done) it's the easier thing to use.

I don't have a bridge with these people to begin with, or a very fragile one as it is so at that point I don't mind giving them a choice to either shape up or back off. I'm still reluctant to fully Te-style cut them off though. I prefer it be their choice. And as such, I also don't have any emotional attachment or anything bottled up with them. It's just a self-preservation tactic.

With people whom I have bonded with, I take care to be wayyyyyy more careful even with Fi and it takes me a looong ass time to get up to the point where I do this as the relationship is precious to me. Ironically, when you pass a certain level of friendship with me, I'm likely to do this again, because you have proven at that point to be solid enough a friend to be able to take my blunt honesty and not take it personally, to not misunderstand my intentions towards you, knowing I'd never harm you on purpose. I might use it as a wake-up call, followed by a reassuring explanation, or even to cut through the bullshit if you're coming to me with a problem, to help you focus and see things clearly. But I only do that with people who I know will not be hurt by it. It also doesnt have the same personal sharpness to it as when I do it out of self-defense.

Once I bond, there's very little that makes me ever want to burn a bridge in that wa and even less that will make me want to severa bridge forever.

In fact, the only two people who've ever managed that, and that was through betrayal and actual enjoyment of my pain. Emotional vampirism ftw.

I do sever bridges amicably when I feel we've drifted apart and fulfilled the part we had to play in each others lives.

 

[Billy]

I wasn't really thinking along the lines of whether the person(s) deserved it or not. I was assuming they probably did (or at least hoping they did LOL). I was just standing in awe of differing ways of handling differing situations - in this case the Te-fail-slap. If someone behaved especially heinous with me it wouldn't occur to me to 'use them up for what I could before...' I don't have that kind of staying-power. Instead...I would merely *magically disappear*. And this might be part of why I am so 'behind' in life LOL! I'm just a big, dumb, squishy-softy ENFP!!! That wants cookies.

Understood... In that case I was unable to just shut him out, we were involved in a series of partnerships economically that needed to come to a more gradual close as to not shoot myself in the foot. I had a hard desire to be more up front with everything, but I am calm and I have learned patience the hard way through life so I let my plans unfold over the course of a few months.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

Once I bond, there's very little that makes me ever want to burn a bridge in that wa and even less that will make me want to severa bridge forever. I do sever bridges amicably when I feel we've drifted apart and fulfilled the part we had to play in each others lives.

Those are the qualities which I've learned from my ENFP. I remembered he once said to me that it's all about "the preciousness of people" around him that motivates him to serve others for the sake of achieving his ideal visions. And I consider that as the most admirable qualities from ENFPs, something that I need to work on my own.

 

[Starry]

Understood... In that case I was unable to just shut him out, we were involved in a series of partnerships economically that needed to come to a more gradual close as to not shoot myself in the foot. I had a hard desire to be more up front with everything, but I am calm and I have learned patience the hard way through life so I let my plans unfold over the course of a few months.

This sounds smart to me. Umm...yah I would have ended up taking a massive financial loss because I am so pain/conflict/stress avoidant. Hopefully I can learn some of the lessons you have learned as well.

 

[Billy]

This sounds smart to me. Umm...yah I would have ended up taking a massive financial loss because I am so pain/conflict/stress avoidant. Hopefully I can learn some of the lessons you have learned as well.

Meh, its just that I dont have any real feelings of my own, damned Fe.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

i have yet to hear a good explanation of this bitchslap im not sure ive ever done it

I'm just catching up on this thread, so if this has already been answered let me apologize in advance:

The Te Bitchslap* is an example of and ENFP's Fi and Te working in concert:

Fi feels indignant about some perceived wrong +
Te decides to let the perpetrator of said perceived wrong know about it....
usually in excruciating detail in a very logical manner.
= ENFP Te Bitchslap​

#1 - When the Te Bitchslap is delivered, the other person's vulnerabilities / social niceties are not taken into consideration. (Letting social niceties take a back seat when a wrong is perceived is very, very Fi.) Marmie Dearest described this aspect of Fi very well in one of her posts:

It's just that Fi is much more concerned with their internal feeling of what is right and true, even if that means being disruptive. It's not like seeking disruption, but not minding if you cause it if it promotes what the Fi user sees as right or true. Authenticity is seen as paramount, even though Fi users may also like harmony. For Fe users it seems that harmony and connection are paramount, even though they may also like authenticity.

#2 - Te steps in. What is of utmost importance to Te (ENFP's tertiary function) is to communicate in a dispassionate manner how wrong the other person is. Another characteristic of the Te Bitchslap is that it tends to be very well-organized. For example, when I've given a Te Bitchslap in writing, I tend to bullet point and sequentially number it. This is very Te of me. Te likes to figure out how to get to from Point A to Point B in the most logical and concise manner possible. Or think of it like this: Te was made for PowerPoint presentations. Imagine having to deliver a critique of someone via a PowerPoint slide show.... Well you get the idea.

One More Thing:

A couple of ENFPs on this thread have mentioned they've never fully experienced delivering a Te Bitchslap. Perhaps this is true. I can only share my personal experience here: I was in my early 30s before I had enough confidence in myself and enough life experience to deliver the Te Bitchslap. The great thing about your 30s is you finally know who you are and what you want. You don't take so much crap from people. And, you're not so afraid to speak your mind. Voila, I was finally able to tap into my Te Bitch-slapping skills.

One More One More Thing:

I don't think the Te Bitchslap is necessarily a bad thing. It's more a question of using it responsibly or irresponsibly. It's been my experience that when I've really let go on someone with the Te Bitchslap, they royally deserved it. I think the trick is considering what the social fallout/damage to the other person is going to be just before you deliver the slap. Sometimes the fallout is not worth it. But sometimes it is. <Insert coyly evil grin here.>





*I think Orobas (on this very forum) came up with the "Te Bitchslap" term. I think it's a great name for this phenomenon. (Please correct me if I'm wrong here.) But in lieu of a correction, let me say thanks to Orobas for this term.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Billy gave every ENFP an excuse to whip out this "infamous" Te bitch-slap and they couldn't meekly try to diffuse the situation with nonsense fast enough.

Delicious.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

Billy gave every ENFP an excuse to whip out this "infamous" Te bitch-slap and they couldn't meekly try to diffuse the situation with nonsense fast enough.

Delicious.

Booyah! Ha ha!

 

[Amargith]

Billy gave every ENFP an excuse to whip out this "infamous" Te bitch-slap and they couldn't meekly try to diffuse the situation with nonsense fast enough.

Delicious.

Wait, what? Oh, we were supposed to get all riled up at that? Meh, not worth the effort.

 

[Starry]

Wait, what? Oh, we were supposed to get all riled up at that? Meh, not worth the effort.

Riled up...I didn't even know what he was saying. (Did he mean to type 'when' where he typed 'and'?)

 

[Malkavia]

Wait, what? Oh, we were supposed to get all riled up at that? Meh, not worth the effort.

Cookies are better anyway.

 

[Starry]

Well, it definitely has the sting of righteous indignation to it, I suppose, but in my experience, the famed Te bitchslap often (but not always by any means!) involves taking mostly inconsequential facts, blowing them out of all proportion, and constructing an argument that the angry ENFP thinks is supremely rational, when, in fact, they aren't making much sense at all. If you care about good logic or are just inherently a cruel person, this is when you step back and say things like "You're being very hysterical" in your most supercilious voice while they fume and fume like baby volcanoes.

I don't feel like you are describing 'Te-bitchslap' here. What you describe above is still involving feeling (and a hell of a lot of it). This is an ENFP that has been pushed too far...but still cares.

I think what people are not understanding about the Te-bitchslap is that Fi has been taken out of the equation (although I think I just contradicted something that Esoteric Wench said above but this is my opinion). It is Ne--->straight to Te. It is not this long dramatic emotional irrational storm. It is quick, cold, emotion-less...stab at an individual's core. It is meant to damage/destroy the relationship...like a final word. The ENFP has given up. Again...what you are describing above is an ENFP that is still invested.

 

[sculpting]

I think you guys are sort of describing a continuum or possible things that can happen.

All the examples contain descriptions that are ring true.

It seems to me that on the more emo side you have:

1) an emo tantrum-you hurt my feelings about something dumb and now I am whining about it. Frequency-2X yearly

2) a cranky emo rant-I am annoyed by something around me and I feel a bit bitchy. I may get a bit petty and annoyed and may be bitchy towards another stupidly and undeservedly. Frequency-weekly to monthly

3) a sobbing emo spew-You have done something that feels very hurtful and you wont stop, even though I ask you to, thus I vomit out pain filled emotions at you in an effort to make you feel my pain. Frequency-only a few times in my life.

4) The insanely, hateful emo driven, but cold and viscous, slash and burn to another person's soul rant-In that moment I want you to make you cry. It is out for blood. The goal-who the fuck knows. Frequency-once in a lifetime, LOL.

These are all somewhat defensive in nature and seem to progress pretty slowly, but are emo leaky.

On the more rational, but value driven side, with longer term, well considered impacts in mind:

1) an idealistic, emo Fi tirade for what is right and true-I wouldnt say it if I didnt think it was legit. Frequency-a few times a year, typically via text or to other people I work with on issues I feel impact a large number of folks around us. Haha, in the past it involved emails to VPs. My emails are legendary.

2) The Te not-to-do list This seems to be what Esoteric was talking about. In this case you have crossed a boundary and you need to have a very clear understanding of what it was. I still care for you though.

3) The dispassionate analytical critique of dissection. I find I use this one more and more as I age, as I dont really like expending the energy to get hurt about assholes. I could get upset, I could let them effect me, but mostly i ignore them. A doorslam sort of ignore. If they really bug me, I just start look through them, start meticulously dismantling them and sorting through the pieces and parts of their psyche. It is very distinctly NeTe but hyperfocused on finding holes and gaps in the person-it is still Fi driven, but Fi has totally left the scene of the dismemberment. I dont like myself when I feel this way, so I try to just ignore them as this method makes me feel gross inside. There is no emotion, just a cold sense of focused analysis.It is objectification of another person. If I externalize this on you, you have really crossed a large number of boundaries... We see things all the time that we never talk about-unless pushed.

 

[Lily flower]

I think the reason it hurts so much is that ENFP's are so good at understanding people and their unconscious stuff, so when they go for the kill it goes right to the part that hurts.

I had an ENFP try that on me once. I deflected it right back, and it ended our friendship. I think she wasn't used to someone who could do the same thing that she could. I refused to have friendships with ENFP's for about 7 years after that, but I now have an ENFP friend with a few added boundaries.

 

[frenchie]

I love how a lot of people under estimate the ENFP te bitch slap.

I got into a fight with my buddy once about leaving food out in my dorm. He wasn't my room mate but he'd leave food out on my coffee table and in my OCD manor I would go and clean it up.

Well the second time this happened, I threw out some sauces he wanted to keep. This pissed him off royally.
We ended up getting into a argument about why he shouldn't leave food that he wants to keep out in MY room. The argument ended up escalating to him saying, "I want to fcuking deck the living $hit out of you!!!"

And I responded with, "Oh really? Seriously? You're going to brute your way through this now especially after you have a bench warrant for your arrest?"
He had a warrant out for his arrest at the time because of some altercation he wasn't involved in, but when we're angry we're angry.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Yeah, I bet he never recovered from that.

 

[frenchie]

Yeah, I bet he never recovered from that.

I wish I recorded it because he was really afraid of getting arrested. The look on his face was nuts, all of the color drained out of his face.

Another Te bitch slap example I have was with my uncle.

I also had my uncle call me disingenuous and saying that my pleasant and casual demeanor would cost me jobs and opportunities.

He was a founding partner for a very large private equity firm. Egotistical entj is the best way I'd describe him.

Contrary to what he said, I told him that all of my professional relationships are very good and that nearly everyone of the people that I work with respect and like me and that he's my uncle not a businessman that I have to suck up to.

He disagreed and the argument ensued. I ended up saying to him, "Well, when I talk to people I try to see what I can learn from them and understand their needs whereas you try and see what you can get from them. Maybe if you learned how to be a bit more sensitive you wouldn't have had your first marriage of 22 years end because you're ex wife was critically depressed."

The conversation ended with him looking down to the floor. It's nice making a really weathly jerk off critically think about his actions.

The Te bitch slap isn't nice. It leaves people distraught in a way that makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

He disagreed and the argument ensued. I ended up saying to him, "Well, when I talk to people I try to see what I can learn from them and understand their needs whereas you try and see what you can get from them. Maybe if you learned how to be a bit more sensitive you wouldn't have had your first marriage of 22 years end because you're ex wife was critically depressed."

I feel sorry for your uncle.

 

[sculpting]

He disagreed and the argument ensued. I ended up saying to him, "Well, when I talk to people I try to see what I can learn from them and understand their needs whereas you try and see what you can get from them. Maybe if you learned how to be a bit more sensitive you wouldn't have had your first marriage of 22 years end because you're ex wife was critically depressed."

The conversation ended with him looking down to the floor. It's nice making a really weathly jerk off critically think about his actions.

The Te bitch slap isn't nice. It leaves people distraught in a way that makes me sick to my stomach.

That's actually a really good example...it isnt nice, but it also isnt the norm either for enfps to go for another's guts- unless repeatedly pushed-and then you just turn the truth about them back upon them. And, I totally recognize that yucky feeling. In this case he was passing a value judgement upon you, and you eventually responded with a symmetrical value judgement about him and highlighted clear actions on his part that justified the judgement.

To be honest, enfps tolerate so much nastiness from other people and dont stand up or defend themselves, as we are bound via visceral Fi to "be nice". But if you hit someone hard enough and often enough, they eventually hit back.