This has been turning over in my mind recently, too. If you say "I don't really care about you" you'll be seen as very mean, even if it's true. Lots of people go through those polite-talk sessions without any meaning. But then the question is... if you really missed someone, if you really love someone, how do you say it? Because "I missed you" doesn't seem to get the meaning through... Even "I really missed you" can be part of a polite-talk session. But what do you do?
Generally, I won't say "I missed you" unless I actually did... and if I didn't, I won't say anything
That's what I usually do instead of lying - not saying anything at all. But I dunno if other people say "I really missed you" as a stock phrase. I bet they do. I have a very similar stock phrase - "Good to see you" - which I suppose I usually mean, because I like seeing people I know in general, but I usually don't think very hard about it before I say it.
If "I miss you" is a stock phrase, what do you need to say if you really missed the other person? Or do we all have to rely on our intuition (not in the MBTI sense) then? Use of voice? Body language? Fe?
I sometimes feel the same way that you do, i.e. that when I say something like "I missed you" and I really mean it, it doesn't mean as much as I want it to mean, because so many people seem to say it casually. My first instinct is to say that you can tell stock phrases from truthful ones when ESTJs say them more seriously and less conversationally - because when we say that kind of thing and we mean it, we REALLY mean it. Serious business!
I'm going to log out and clean the kitchen to try and show my ESTJ that I love him beyond the "I love you" phrase! See you
Edit: I had to tell my reasoning before he realized it was not only an act of practicality but also of love
You guys are so cute
Oooh. I have been guilty of this. It's usually because I'm trying really hard to shove my feelings out of the way and they build up on the side of the roadway so to speak. One more thing happens and I'll snap. I'm also guilty of losing my temper when something happens that could have been easily prevented with a little forethought or planning. That's a real bad one there. If I do, I will apologize because I don't believe in burdening anyone (especially the kids) with my anger or upset. I also feel terribly embarrassed over any kind of emotional outburst. The kind of embarrassment where you wish the earth would swallow you up.
That's really sad... and also really interesting to know - about the embarrassment, and not wanting to burden people. I wonder if my dad feels that level of embarrassment too. It's so hard to tell, because, like you, he never wants to talk about that sort of thing with people. I had no idea that it had to do with not wanting to burden them. I'm only really motivated by that (i.e. "They've got enough to deal with as is without my ramblings added in") about half the time; the rest of the time, it's more along the lines of "That would be TMI, and it would make the conversation really, really awkward, so I won't say it."
Also, to clarify: I also am prone to having outbursts after a long buildup of things, but the key difference, for me, and the reason why I distinguish my dad's outbursts from mine, is that sometimes it seems like he thinks he's being perfectly rational. Maybe it's that he's so embarrassed that he doesn't want to talk about the cause of the outburst after it's happened, so it feels like, since he usually apologizes in the briefest and most discreet way possible, he doesn't take the outburst seriously. To contrast, I usually explain in brief why I had an outburst after it happens, even if it's just to say "I'm sorry about that; I've had a terrible week and I just got a C on a midterm" or something along those lines. My dad never explains anything. As a result, I always thought of his temper as completely random, which made it even more scary.
Were you more obedient than bossy? That has me wondering now. He's definitely EXTJ. He will tell everyone what to do and how to do it. Unfortunately, that includes me, so I have be pretty firm with him (He wanted to argue about whether the butter should be out on the counter or not!! Nuts!!) Want to get him angry? Tell him "no" or don't do it the way he says it out to be done. Or don't do something NOW. He doesn't wait to be told anything, he just does it. Because I've seen my ENTJ sister and my other ESTJ person at work, I'm used to this...somewhat. It's going to make things interesting, that's for sure. I appreciate your insight.
Interesting. Sounds more ENTJ to me, because there's no respect for authority in that behavior. When I was a kid, even though I was really independent, I was easygoing enough that I would defer to authority (i.e. parents, adults, etc) unless I strongly disagreed with them, and even then, I'd tell them about my disagreement, and if they convinced me, or if they just told me to go along with it, I would grudgingly do what they said. So I guess I was more obedient than bossy... but I was also pretty argumentative and opinionated. That's still true of me, actually...
There was a thread in the Enneagram section about how Ones were usually passive kids with a bossy parent, and I think that was kind of true for me. My mom is probably the most type-A person I know. She has a tendency to tell people exactly what to do, because she doesn't trust them to remember on their own. She definitely did that to me as a kid. Dunno if that's relevant to what you were saying, but nonetheless...
They are. I love this kind of learning because I think it can be helpful in understanding others and working with them. It also helps break down stereotypes because I've read descriptions of ESTJ (or SJs) and have gone, "Ugh!" And yet, I've learned a great deal in this thread and on this forum in general. I have come to respect ESTJ and how their thought processes work. It helped me find the person under the type.
Definitely! That's actually been happening with me, recently, because I think one of my newer friends (or rather, friendly acquaintances) is a female ESxJ type 3, and she's really helping me see the differences two ESTJ girls can have. She is so incredibly DRIVEN. I don't understand it. She has this specific career goal for decades from now, and works herself to death every day to try and get there. She stresses herself out constantly, and pulls all-nighters all over the place. I really don't understand it.
I could never live like that.
If you have time sometime to read them (maybe about 6 pages total), I would be very interested to see the ESTJ reaction, seeing as your functions are in a very different order than either NFP type or an NTJ's. Umlauu's posts especially are useful to zero in on. I'm wondering if you identify or can see any of these dynamics between you and your Fe/Ti parents (with those functions in different order) or if it is only applicable in the NFP realm.
Interesting. I will check that out as soon as I'm done posting this!
Do you think INFJs and ESTJs think of themselves they are somehow important ?
I don't think ESTJs do, necessarily. I think ESTJs think of themselves as having been put on this earth to get stuff done, so they do it, but they don't actively think of themselves as special. I mean, I would like to do something important with my life, but I don't presume to think that I'm the only one who could possibly accomplish whatever that thing is. INFJs, on the other hand... I dunno about others, but the ones that I know tend to think of themselves as Atlas, holding up the world. They are responsible for everything important that there is. Without them, all would be lost!!!!!
I often tease my mom for having this attitude, actually.
EJCC,
What has been your experience with ISTJ dudes? You ever date one?
Talk to me.
I have had very little experience with ISTJ guys. However, I had an excellent experience flirting with one on this very site! <3 (And no, I will not say which one.)
Why do you ask? You have someone in mind?
Want to make him happy? Give him work to do.
The dark kind can also involve flinging mock insults - or just busting up laughing at someone being insulted.
)
