[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[sui generis]

OK, as I was saying to EJCC earlier, I want to read this entire thread sometime. Tonight I got to page 22 before I decided that I needed to take a break. I wanted to respond to a few salient posts that really resonated with me.

Ok, going WAY back in time....

I have at times been interested in journalism

[snip]

Also, yes, I am a lady. However, on this site, I consider my type to be more important/relevant than my gender; I'm not that great with "womanly advice", which is to be expected, considering my type

Journalism appeals to me too, because I like talking to strangers, because i like facts and figures and truths and because I like writing.

I hear you about type being more relevant than gender. I don't consider myself as being good with "womanly advice" either. My F is kind of underused and attempting to use it is a lot like writing with my left hand. Friends (T-types, mostly) ask me for relationship advice a lot, but the advice I give is generally based on logic, not feelings.

I've become more comfortable embracing my femininity as I've gotten older, and I've become more comfortable with my emotions, and others' emotions, but there are still times that I feel like I must obviously fail at being a girl, because I am not good with emotions.

Heck yes. The best gift for an ESTJ is something that they can USE. (My favorite graduation gift was... a hot pot. lol!)

[snip]

I personally never enjoyed sports - I don't know why. But I like to exercise. Most ESTJs probably do, for the reasons I mentioned.

Practical gifts FTW! I don't like stuff that just sits around the house gathering dust. I hate when people give me knick-knacks and shit.

My favorite HS grad gift was when a girl gave me a college kit- it had stuff like paper towels, a shower bucket, a shower poof, et cetera. It was thoughtful and practical! My fave college grad gift was an afghan knit by a family friend. It meant a lot to me because it was from her, but also because I appreciated the workmanship and how much effort went into making it. Also, money and gift cards are always a good gift.

I also love exercise. It's kind of a solitary thing for me, though, because it's so meditative. I don't like team sports, either. I like watching soccer or hockey, but don't want to play.

I have loads of xxxP friends, but when it comes to, you know, issues of being on time, or not living as structured a life, I can't relate at all.

I have come to insist on less of a structured life as I've gotten older. (God, you'd think I was almost 60 instead of almost-30!) But that's just me. Still, I don't understand not being on time! I've become more understanding of my P-pref friends, though-- while I view lateness as rude, I understand that's just not how they operate, and so I've been a little bit more able to accept it.

For whatever reason, MBTI really appealed to me from the start. I think it's because it cleans up so many loose ends - and you know how ESTJs like loose ends getting cleaned up It explains so much! There were all these ESTJ-specific things that I read about where I thought "Wow! I'm not just a freak! Other people do these things too!"

MBTI also appealed to me from the start. I've heard (on this board) that few S-types like MBTI stuff, but I can't see why they wouldn't. It's got real world applications.

So... part of my MBTI-obsession probably comes from the fact that I have a nerdy/Asperger's/crazy-Ne streak. (A quote from Typelogic.com that essentially describes my ESTJ adolescence: "I've encountered ESTJs whose Ne overshadows the auxiliary Si function--for whatever reason--to the extent that there is an appearance of NT radical geekism.")

Is this why I enjoy NT types so much?

I use my sense of humor, smartness, high confidence and my sex appeal to flirt. I'll do my best to make sure that he notice me as a smart, sexy, funny, and unique woman.

This. I rarely flirt, as such, because it seem fake and shallow and kind of dishonest to me. But when I like someone, I play up my intelligence, friendliness, and personality.

Continued in next post....

 

[sui generis]

Any and all of you:

What do you think about when you are just walking or driving along?

I think about things I'm seeing, things going on around me. I think about conversations I've had, relationships, plans for the future. I think about five different things at once, generally.

Do you ever wonder much about how other people's minds work? If so, is it solely in relation to you dealing with them, or out of general curiosity? Do you look for patterns in people, or take things as they come?

I wonder about how other people's minds work all of the time. I find it fascinating, and it's part of why I studied psychology. Sometimes it's for me to figure out how to relate to them (but that mostly applies when I'm having trouble relating to them and want to figure out why) but mostly it's because people and their differences fascinate me. I look for patterns to an extent (which is why I love MBTI) but mostly take things as they come.

How do you decide whether you would be interested in becoming friends with someone? Would non-conventional people annoy you or make you think twice about it? If you did decide you wanted to be friends, would you initiate or respond or would it just happen however it happens?

I am interested in becoming friends with people who make me laugh, make me think, challenge me, have a zest for life, share my priorities, are intelligent, and generally feel like they're on the same page I am. Nonconventional people are my favorites! I might have to hand in my ESTJ card for this, but I'd think twice about befriending someone who went out of their way to BE conventional, because their priorities are definitely different from mine.
I'm not good at letting things happen how they're going to happen, or trusting the universe, so I'd initiate the hell out of that friendship, let that person know that I like hanging out with them, and generally try not to be TOO eager and excited.

What are you most afraid of?

Death, needles, heights, violence, hatred, intolerance, uncertainty.

Did you ever have imaginary friends when you were kids?

I did. I also had a whole fake universe that I played in, but it wasn't, like, a fantasy universe with dragons and shit, it was a fake universe where realistic things happened, like going to school and going dancing.

What would be your favourite activity to do with a friend if you both had a day that was free?

Sleep late! Be outdoors! Walk around the city! Window shop! Try on clothes! Go to a museum! Eat good food! Have long in-depth conversations!

If you eat at a restaurant, would you go for variety or for what you know you'll like?

It depends on my mood and what the options are. If something new sounds intriguing to me, I'll definitely order it. However, there are things I love so much that I'll order them whenever I have the chance. (Notably, eggplant parmesan, because it is so delicious but every time I have tried to cook it has been an epic fail )

Would another person's hatred or indifference bother you more, or would either if they weren't important to you?

HATRED ALL THE WAY. I can live with indifference, but hatred would fire me up. It would matter less if it were someone I didn't respect or wasn't important to me, but it would still matter. I hate that about myself.

I want to get married. I enjoy talking to girls. (Not all girls do the annoying things I described... and I'm okay at handling complaining/gossip/OMG BOYS OMG (which, again, not all girls do) in small doses.
I just don't want to be like this woman:

I dont know if I want to get married- I can take it or leave it. Most of my friends are girls, but I deliberately don't make friends with girls who are gossippy, backstabby, obsessed with boys/relationships, or less intelligent than me. (Anymore, at least.) I've never been boy crazy, which is another way I've felt like I've failed at being a girl. (Not like I feel like I should be a guy instead, or anything, just that I feel like an atypical girl. Is this common among T-type women?)

The whole fifties-housewife thing makes me want to . I would be bored to tears, and I hate cleaning.

We're not that great at making the first move. The risk is scary - scarier for us than for others because we generally don't like any risks.

!!! I'd never thought about my being risk-averse and my reluctance to make the first move as being related. Huh.

 

[Redbone]

Yet another question for our esteemed ESTJ folks!

Is it hard for you to admit that another person may have a better view or understanding of a situation than you do?

I've had an ESTJ talk to me in depth about some problems he is having. Based on him and from what I know of the situation, I'm pretty certain of what "the real" problem is. I asked him was my assessment correct and he said, "kinda". Real grudging. I think he looks at his situation of someone imposing a problem on him vs. him being a part of the problem.

Does this have anything to do with the fact that if I am right, he would feel like it's an admission of being wrong? IOW, munching on a bit of crow...

I'm concerned, too. I think he might be headed toward that infamous "explosive" stage.

 

[sui generis]

Is it hard for you to admit that another person may have a better view or understanding of a situation than you do?

I've had an ESTJ talk to me in depth about some problems he is having. Based on him and from what I know of the situation, I'm pretty certain of what "the real" problem is. I asked him was my assessment correct and he said, "kinda". Real grudging.

Interesting! Um, I think that your ESTJ friend may be internalizing what you've said, and is probably considering the possibility of your being very right and his being very wrong, but is not ready to admit that yet. I know I've become much better at admitting when I'm wrong, as I've gotten older, but it's still hard to do in situations where I've had a lot of time and energy and emotion invested in NOT BEING WRONG IN THIS SITUATION, DAMN IT. You know? The amount of reluctance to admit my wrongness is directly related to how much energy I've put into my wrong answer.

I think the true test is to see whether his actions change or his thoughts change in future conversations as a result of this one and his having a chance to think it over.

 

[EJCC]

Interesting! Um, I think that your ESTJ friend may be internalizing what you've said, and is probably considering the possibility of your being very right and his being very wrong, but is not ready to admit that yet.

Or he knows 100% that he's wrong and doesn't want to admit it to you because he's so embarrassed. I know that in similar situations, I always sound grudging, because I'd rather not be the wrong one.

The amount of reluctance to admit my wrongness is directly related to how much energy I've put into my wrong answer.

Yes.

 

[Redbone]

^woohoo! I knew it (Snoopy dance)!!! Making another tally in the WIN column.

I won't say a word, though...it was bad enough when I rubbed his face in the fact that the so-called "star" was actually Venus. He was glum the whole evening about that. He better be glad that I can gloat in secret.

Even if I am right and he acknowledges this internally, I don't think he will be able to make a permanent based on this knowledge because it he's going to feel that even though it might "x" it ought to be "y" regardless. His own behavior will become a 'minor' player in the situation.

Or even more likely, he will end up dismissing my assessment because he may end up rationalizing it as "well, she might have a point but I don't think so. I know this situation better than she does."

I ain't telling him this, either.

Thank you both for that insight. I marvel that for a type that seems to be so straight-forward that many have a lot of questions about ESTJs!

 

[EJCC]

Thank you both for that insight. I marvel that for a type that seems to be so straight-forward that many have a lot of questions about ESTJs!

Well, in forums like this, I've noticed that people tend to overthink things. Better to take ESTJs at face value, for the most part.

 

[sui generis]

Yeah, it's a good call to not rub his face in it or anything like that. That would make matters so much worse.

ESTJs are pretty straightforward, but I'm sure we're still fascinating and/or enigmatic to people who... aren't us. Just as the other types are kind of mysterious to me, to varying degrees.

 

[EJCC]

Question for ESTJs (and ISTJs as well, I suppose): Do you resent movies when they make you feel powerful emotions that you didn't want, or weren't expecting, to feel? A personal example is Toy Story 3, which was so unexpectedly intense and powerful that I felt almost traumatized at the end, and, despite everyone else's positive reviews (I know no one who didn't love it), would never recommend it to anyone.

I always feel like I'm weird for acting like that, but I guess I just don't consider that sort of emotion to be cathartic - it's almost the opposite. Cathartic, for me, is "Dexter", or "The Bourne Supremacy", or "The Wire" (which is, in my opinion, Urban Shakespeare) - NOT anything that would make you cry or even consider crying.

Is this terribly weird? Do any of you relate?

 

[sui generis]

I think that for me, it depends on my mood. I think that if I'm in a place where I'm needing a catharsis, those kinds of films can be exactly what I need. If I'm in an overall good place and I've been 'tricked' into having an emotional reaction by a film/TV show, whatever, I get all :steam:. YOU WORKED UP MY EMOTIONS FOR NOTHING, you know?

 

[EJCC]

^ You mean, on occasion, you actually like movies that make you want to cry?

Hm.

 

[sui generis]

Occasionally? Yeah. I can't remember ever seeking one out, but it's not always a bad thing in my book.
*shrugs*
*prepares to hand in card*

 

[EJCC]

*prepares to hand in card*

No, don't do that! This could easily be some weird thing on my part, having nothing to do with being an ESTJ.

Ah well. *sigh*

 

[sui generis]

Or it could be that I'm the one who's quirky and an atypical ESTJ. Your reaction would be more logical for the type.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

So does anyone need a question answered here or do we all spout our brand of unqiueness.

 

[Fidelia]

^ You mean, on occasion, you actually like movies that make you want to cry?

Hm.

I didn't realize that people didn't. I guess it's the emotional equivalent of going on a rollercoaster. You get a thrill without being in any real danger. I admire a writer or movie maker who is able to make me feel that way.

Was Toy Story 3 a tear jerker?

 

[EJCC]

I didn't realize that people didn't. I guess it's the emotional equivalent of going on a rollercoaster. You get a thrill without being in any real danger. I admire a writer or movie maker who is able to make me feel that way.

Oh, I know that a lot of people feel that way - how else would a movie like "The Notebook" exist? I was just surprised that a fellow ESTJ would feel that way, when I completely don't. I figured that it must relate to that one thing we talked about a while ago - ESTJs resenting it when people tell them things that make them upset. I see it as almost the same thing.

Was Toy Story 3 a tear jerker?

It unearthed emotions in me that I really didn't want to be feeling. Beyond that, it confuses even me.

Here's the post, to save people going back a page:

Question for ESTJs (and ISTJs as well, I suppose): Do you resent movies when they make you feel powerful emotions that you didn't want, or weren't expecting, to feel? A personal example is Toy Story 3, which was so unexpectedly intense and powerful that I felt almost traumatized at the end, and, despite everyone else's positive reviews (I know no one who didn't love it), would never recommend it to anyone.

I always feel like I'm weird for acting like that, but I guess I just don't consider that sort of emotion to be cathartic - it's almost the opposite. Cathartic, for me, is "Dexter", or "The Bourne Supremacy", or "The Wire" (which is, in my opinion, Urban Shakespeare) - NOT anything that would make you cry or even consider crying.

Is this terribly weird? Do any of you relate?

I guess no one relates. Wow, I must have issues I apologize for all this.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

Here's the post, to save people going back a page:

I guess no one relates. Wow, I must have issues I apologize for all this.

Since i am in a good mood today and we have had interesting discussions in the past, i am going to go ahead and answer your question to make your feeling of idiocy go away.

to answer your question, it is fully natural for anyone to experience this kind of thing, even for a movie.

From my personal experience, if it so happens that quality is so well , and meets certain point where reacting emotionally is a good appeal. And yes in that situation, when i do get emotionally engrossed in the movie, i do get the feeling that my natural detachment is waning and that i am overreacting ridiculesly in a irrational manner over something as trivial as a movie. It can really get to me.

 

[sui generis]

I guess no one relates. Wow, I must have issues I apologize for all this.

No, no apologies necessary. And I don't think you have issues. If you remember, I said that I *have* experienced that, just not all the time. So you're not wrong or weird or whatever. Within 16 types, there's a bajillion individuals.

 

[Fidelia]

I think that's why it's interesting to have more than one person of the same type respond. Enneagram maybe also figures in to some of the differences. I wish on the INFJ common Issues thread that even more INFJs would respond for that reason.