[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[strychnine]

ESTJs, what do you consider a waste of time? Do you beat yourself up about "wasting time" by doing these things?

Thanks .

 

[EJCC]

Again. And again. And again...

Especially if it's an opinion about their issues with something/someone. Unless the problem gets fixed.

ESTJs, what do you consider a waste of time?

Well, for me, there are really two categories of time-wasters:
1. Things that are fun fluff and, even though they aren't productive, are a good reward for doing productive things. (For me, that includes posting here. Also, video games.)
2. Things that have no benefit for anyone and are time-sucking nightmares!!!! (For me, this includes "Bejeweled Blitz" on Facebook, and, say, posting on a blog that almost no one reads.)

Do you beat yourself up about "wasting time" by doing these things?

I'll ALWAYS feel bad about #2. And I'll feel bad about #1 if it's not in moderation, and/or if I'm not counterbalancing it with something productive.

Thanks .

No problem!

 

[strychnine]

Well, for me, there are really two categories of time-wasters:
1. Things that are fun fluff and, even though they aren't productive, are a good reward for doing productive things. (For me, that includes posting here. Also, video games.)
2. Things that have no benefit for anyone and are time-sucking nightmares!!!! (For me, this includes "Bejeweled Blitz" on Facebook, and, say, posting on a blog that almost no one reads.)

I'll ALWAYS feel bad about #2. And I'll feel bad about #1 if it's not in moderation, and/or if I'm not counterbalancing it with something productive.

No problem!

Wow, EJCC, you sound so disciplined . "no benefit for anyone"...interesting... I usually rationalize things like that by saying it benefits me haha. I don't know, I guess productivity makes the most sense in reference towards a goal...it doesn't exist in a vaccum. So I'm guessing your goals are clearly defined.
Thanks for this, though. I know a (confirmed) ESTJ who feels bad almost constantly for wasting time or not doing something "useful" (in his words, productive I guess is similar). I wonder if this is because he has a single goal in mind, or a single way he "should" be doing things, and when he doesn't adhere to it he gets upset about it. Oh well.
Btw, I realize not all ESTJs are the same, so I'm not going to directly extrapolate this to the guy, or something like that .
Thanks again, I appreciate the response!

 

[EJCC]

Wow, EJCC, you sound so disciplined .

I suppose. I wish I was more disciplined, though. I wish I never wasted any time at all. If everything was divided into helpful/useful/caring things and rewards for those things, I'd be happy

I don't know, I guess productivity makes the most sense in reference towards a goal...it doesn't exist in a vaccum. So I'm guessing your goals are clearly defined.

ABSO-friggin-LUTELY! You've just discovered one of the key ESTJ traits - we know what we want, when we want it, and how to get it, and if we don't, we find out as soon as possible. Uncertainty is our enemy. And as Jock and soapninja and I mentioned earlier: We've got opinions. We like to share them. And we have them on pretty much everything.

Thanks for this, though. I know a (confirmed) ESTJ who feels bad almost constantly for wasting time or not doing something "useful" (in his words, productive I guess is similar). I wonder if this is because he has a single goal in mind, or a single way he "should" be doing things, and when he doesn't adhere to it he gets upset about it. Oh well.

The bolded is 100% what it is. It's like a subconscious internal list of ways that things should be. And if things aren't like that, we are not happy. This applies to a lot of things with ESTJs...

 

[strychnine]

The bolded is 100% what it is. It's like a subconscious internal list of ways that things should be. And if things aren't like that, we are not happy. This applies to a lot of things with ESTJs...

How much of this (the bolded) is based on Si, do you think? Is it influenced greatly by input from society?
Either way, it does clarify things for me with respect to the friend. Thanks again and sorry for all the questions .

 

[Tamske]

I know my ESTJ as making a very strict division between work and play. If there's work to be done, it should happen first. If there isn't, nobody needs to be productive. He can really be lazy.

 

[EJCC]

How much of this (the bolded) is based on Si, do you think?

It's probably a lot of Si, but I don't know enough about Si to be entirely sure. I know a lot about the extraverted functions, and I understand Ni enough to figure that it makes people practically psychic compared to a thick-headed ESTJ like me, but I don't quite get Si.

Is it influenced greatly by input from society?

Not as much as you'd think. If it were mostly based on my environment growing up, I'd probably have a set of values more fitting to an INTP or INFJ (i.e. my parents' types), or to some other hippie NF (because those were the types of people that ran the private school I spent K-8 in), but nevertheless, my set of values is pretty typically ESTJ: honesty, loyalty, dependability, trustworthiness, strength, politeness, etc. That leads me to believe that it's mostly just my subconscious (Fi?) interpretation of what makes a person "good", that I've developed since childhood without realizing it.

Either way, it does clarify things for me with respect to the friend. Thanks again and sorry for all the questions .

You're welcome, and don't apologize - answering questions is what I'm here for

I know my ESTJ as making a very strict division between work and play. If there's work to be done, it should happen first. If there isn't, nobody needs to be productive. He can really be lazy.

I agree with pretty much all of this. Does your ESTJ get sad if he spends too many days with nothing productive to do? I've come to the conclusion that ESTJs might be more ill-suited to retirement - or unemployment - than any other type...

Also, a question for other ESTJs: Do you get bored often? I'm hardly ever bored, because I'm really talented at finding stuff to do.

 

[strychnine]

Ok, interesting. Thanks again. Btw I don't think you're thick-headed .

 

[sui generis]

Also, a question for other ESTJs: Do you get bored often? I'm hardly ever bored, because I'm really talented at finding stuff to do.

I was just talking about this in the "13 facts about you" thread! I am NEVER bored. I want to say "I'm never bored, especially because I have the Internet" (and can therefore learn MOAR RANDOM USELESS FACTS), but really, I wouldn't be bored if I *wasn't* online, either. There's always something to do or something to think about.

When people say they're bored, it makes me want to :rolli:, though I know that not everyone is of my type. Sigh.

 

[Ginkgo]

ESTJs -

I revolt against your structured work/play dichotomy, for it is false and confining! GRRG!!

 

[raz]

How much of this (the bolded) is based on Si, do you think? Is it influenced greatly by input from society?
Either way, it does clarify things for me with respect to the friend. Thanks again and sorry for all the questions .

It's Si. That's a cornerstone trait for SJs. SJs look at the world in how it should be run. It's how they're using to doing things. This isn't always how the SJ does things, but standards that they have learned over their life or methods they have adopted from being outright told how to do something, e.g. a job's standards.

Also, remember that being an SJ creates tunnel vision. Si is a function that stabilizes. It provides information from the past for the person to use their Extraverted Judgment to mold the present into how the SJ thinks it should be. You're using your two biggest functions, which mean the most to you, and both are about getting things done a certain way and doing things methodically, so stubbornness is to expected.

 

[sui generis]

I've got to admit, all of the Fe Fi Fo Fum Si Ne Ni business kind of falls under the category of "that's too technical" in my opinion. My eyes glaze over.

 

[Ginkgo]

It's probably a lot of Si, but I don't know enough about Si to be entirely sure. I know a lot about the extraverted functions, and I understand Ni enough to figure that it makes people practically psychic compared to a thick-headed ESTJ like me, but I don't quite get Si.

It's understandable. Si is one of the more nebulous functions, at least as it is defined. It's basically recalling experienced details about the past. However, since we all do this to some degree, I find it easier to couple Si with Ne. So, maybe you recall a past experience and then hypothesize about where it had potential, or maybe you connect past experiences and notice trends and patterns. With Se and Ni, it's more like you're interpolating the present and then projecting a future outcome, and you don't rely on the past as an anchor.

So, Si = anchor. It keeps you grounded in a safe zone if you know that particular recollection is desirable. The difficulty arises for many SJs when they can't distinguish safe from unsafe and just operate by past experience regardless.

(hope this helps)

I once knew an ESTJ who determined that she was evil because when she was little, she killed a fish as it was out of water just to subdue it. I found this hilarious, as it typifies the ESTJs impersonal approach to order and stability.

 

[soapninja]

I've got to admit, all of the Fe Fi Fo Fum Si Ne Ni business kind of falls under the category of "that's too technical" in my opinion. My eyes glaze over.

Agreed. I don't do technical speak.

As far as time-wasting and boredom:
I can't stand time-wasting. My boyfriend (INTP) likes to sleep in (til 11 or 12) and snuggle when he visits (he lives 100 miles away) and I have to get out of bed at a reasonable time or I feel useless/guilty for being lazy.

I can't tell you the last time I felt bored. There is always something to do around the house, internets, shop, gardening, visit with friends/family, fantasize about my next Euro vacation, etc. etc.

Wow. I wish I could learn to relax!

 

[EJCC]

ESTJs -

I revolt against your structured work/play dichotomy, for it is false and confining! GRRG!!

Go take a bath, hippie

It's Si. That's a cornerstone trait for SJs. SJs look at the world in how it should be run. It's how they're using to doing things. This isn't always how the SJ does things, but standards that they have learned over their life or methods they have adopted from being outright told how to do something, e.g. a job's standards.

Also, remember that being an SJ creates tunnel vision. Si is a function that stabilizes. It provides information from the past for the person to use their Extraverted Judgment to mold the present into how the SJ thinks it should be. You're using your two biggest functions, which mean the most to you, and both are about getting things done a certain way and doing things methodically, so stubbornness is to expected.

Absolutely. And I think introverted feeling has something to do with it too. Here's a relevant bit from an article I found somewhere describing introverted feelers -

Although in these persons the will, under the direction of strong moral conviction, represents an important factor in the psyche, it is less evident than in the other rational types, owing to the fact that the controlling activity is directed more inwards, and will occasionally come quite unexpectedly to light. feeling is expressed more indirectly. It is most evident in the strong sense of duty characteristic of these people, and in their faithful discharge of their duties. Their activity frequently suffers as a result of moods of discouragement. When this is so, they lose themselves in pessimistic feelings, giving up their efforts to make themselves better understood, or to alter things in their environment. After a time they recover from such moods, since they tend, as a rule, to regard them as a fault in themselves.

It's understandable. Si is one of the more nebulous functions, at least as it is defined. It's basically recalling experienced details about the past. However, since we all do this to some degree, I find it easier to couple Si with Ne. So, maybe you recall a past experience and then hypothesize about where it had potential, or maybe you connect past experiences and notice trends and patterns. With Se and Ni, it's more like you're interpolating the present and then projecting a future outcome, and you don't rely on the past as an anchor.

So, Si = anchor. It keeps you grounded in a safe zone if you know that particular recollection is desirable. The difficulty arises for many SJs when they can't distinguish safe from unsafe and just operate by past experience regardless.

(hope this helps)

It does help! Thanks Tater

I once knew an ESTJ who determined that she was evil because when she was little, she killed a fish as it was out of water just to subdue it. I found this hilarious, as it typifies the ESTJs impersonal approach to order and stability.

That's so sad!! I definitely relate. I was pretty much scarred for life after watching Toy Story 2 as a kid, because I didn't play with my toys very much, and I kept thinking about that flashback scene with Jessie. The resulting guilt was practically unbearable.

 

[strychnine]

It's Si. That's a cornerstone trait for SJs. SJs look at the world in how it should be run. It's how they're using to doing things. This isn't always how the SJ does things, but standards that they have learned over their life or methods they have adopted from being outright told how to do something, e.g. a job's standards.

Also, remember that being an SJ creates tunnel vision. Si is a function that stabilizes. It provides information from the past for the person to use their Extraverted Judgment to mold the present into how the SJ thinks it should be. You're using your two biggest functions, which mean the most to you, and both are about getting things done a certain way and doing things methodically, so stubbornness is to expected.

Thanks raz. This is really helpful. (And it confirms I'm not an ISFJ, so maybe I shouldn't have posted in the ISFJ thread haha)

 

[sui generis]

Hi friends-
Do you become interested in people for sexual relationships by falling for their brains first? For me, physical attraction is very much secondary to the mental connection that I have with a person. They could have four arms and three toes and I would probably be interested in them as long as they are on the same page as I am, mentally. I'm just wondering if this is an ESTJ commonality, or if it's just a quirk of mine.

 

[soapninja]

Hi friends-
Do you become interested in people for sexual relationships by falling for their brains first? For me, physical attraction is very much secondary to the mental connection that I have with a person. They could have four arms and three toes and I would probably be interested in them as long as they are on the same page as I am, mentally. I'm just wondering if this is an ESTJ commonality, or if it's just a quirk of mine.

Absolutely. I have to be involved with someone who is on the same intellectual level as I am, so I tend to get to know my significant other before they become my significant other. Then I start noticing how cute they are

Just a side note - I've only had three serious relationships. Is it common for ESTJ's to be very picky/careful with who they get involved with?

 

[sui generis]

Absolutely. I have to be involved with someone who is on the same intellectual level as I am, so I tend to get to know my significant other before they become my significant other. Then I start noticing how cute they are

Just a side note - I've only had three serious relationships. Is it common for ESTJ's to be very picky/careful with who they get involved with?

Ahh, I feel so validated!

And, yeah, I'm super picky about who I get involved with sexually/romantically. My sexual "number" is way lower than most of my friends'. It's not that they're *not* choosy, it's that I'm *extraordinarily* choosy.

 

[Giggly]

I like ESTJ's. Do you think they would like ISFJs?