Confusion between 5's and 9's?

[InTheFlesh]

Hello, I've read through "The Wisdom Of The Enneagram" by Don Riso multiple times, and I'm having a lot of troubles deciding if I'm a 5 or 9. I have very strong 9 traits (I'm indecisive, stubborn and I can seem absent-minded), but on the other hand, I have a ton of 5 traits (I'm not afraid to argue or stand up for my opinions in the least, emotionally distant and reclusive). I've always been told I was a 9 and I can identify a lot with other 9's with specific things but I'm not really sure anymore.

Does anyone else have a problem like this or know someone who does?

 

[Uytuun]

Are you attracted to exploring stuff that makes you feel uncomfortable/uneasy?

How angry are you? How do you feel about anger?

 

[InTheFlesh]

I am not necessarily attracted to it, but there's always a side of me that wants to know more about it and what causes people to go so far (suicide being my biggest fear). I have had dreams about it though.

I can be quite an angry person, but I noticed I tend to only get angry when people I'm close with or my ideas/beliefs are being attacked. If it's me directly being attacked I normally just fall back into my head and go silent. I feel that anger isn't a good thing to act on or necessarily feel, but when I get angry I can't hold myself back. I'm not the type of person to ever get in a fight, as I think it shows weak-mindedness, but I know exactly how to chop people down verbally. I only show that on rare occasions though.

 

[Moonstone3]

I'm a tie...according to the official book test...

When I'm calm, I feel at peace and act like a 9. I love nature, and try to keep the peace at my own expense sometimes. A good example is Emile Hirsch's character on into the Wild. The way he dies with a smile on his face, at the end, is a good example scene.
When I'm stressed, I act like a 5. I'm a real recluse and I get obsessed with one thing, buy tons of books on the subject, learn everything I can, and become an expert. A good example is Robert Downey Jr's character on Sherlock Holmes. The captured flies that fly clockwise, as well as the analytical fighting style scenes come to mind.
The enneagram was created based upon the fact that parenting styles cause living styles for children. Or better said-each number is a strategy system chosen by the child to 'survive' the parent.
The child who chooses a 9 strategy had parents who constantly overlooked his/her emotions. The child feels the parents are indifferent and lacking in affection. The parental message conveys: "Don't." "Don't bother me." "Don't exist."
The child who chooses a 5 strategy withdrawals from parents who seem emotionally depriving or intrusive. The parent conveys a danger in being close or belonging. The 5 child translates this into a instruction of "Don't be close." "Don't belong."
Maybe that can help. It's from a book called "Emotions and the Enneagram" by Margaret Frings Keyes. It's a great book. It cleared up some things for me.
Moonstone3

 

[InTheFlesh]

I've read through "The Wisdom Of The Enneagram" and "The Enneagram: Understanding Yourself And The Others In Your Life" and I'm still a little confused haha.

 

[Uytuun]

I am not necessarily attracted to it, but there's always a side of me that wants to know more about it and what causes people to go so far (suicide being my biggest fear). I have had dreams about it though.

I can be quite an angry person, but I noticed I tend to only get angry when people I'm close with or my ideas/beliefs are being attacked. If it's me directly being attacked I normally just fall back into my head and go silent. I feel that anger isn't a good thing to act on or necessarily feel, but when I get angry I can't hold myself back. I'm not the type of person to ever get in a fight, as I think it shows weak-mindedness, but I know exactly how to chop people down verbally. I only show that on rare occasions though.

Well, I'm not an expert, but I did specifically mean you yourself with regard to the stuff that makes you uncomfortable. 9s often have a complicated relationship with anger, that's why I asked. Repressing it.

Hmm, I guess that's not very helpful.

 

[InTheFlesh]

Anything that adds to my thinking is helpful=D
I think I'm more 9ish. I tend to get controlled by emotion in an argument rather than keeping my cool.

 

[VagrantFarce]

The difference:

• Fives overthink everything, because they don't always feel they're good enough to deal with situations as they happen.
• Nines are the Calm Little Centres Of The World, and try to stay as relaxed as possible in order to keep their immediate situation "in balance".

Look at these:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/28823-soul-child-type-nine-point-three.html

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/28884-soul-child-type-five-point-eight.html

[youtube=fDFsq-KnzkQ]Five[/youtube]

[youtube=17YGpit3zRk]Nine[/youtube]

Have a look at these videos to see which group you fall into:

[youtube=XOuuk9ms0So]5, 6, 7[/youtube]

[youtube=X7_6rTGSyvw]8, 9, 1[/youtube]

 

[Halfjillhalfjack]

The difference:

• Fives overthink everything, because they don't always feel they're good enough to deal with situations as they happen.
• Nines are the Calm Little Centres Of The World, and try to stay as relaxed as possible in order to keep their immediate situation "in balance".

Look at these:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/28823-soul-child-type-nine-point-three.html

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/28884-soul-child-type-five-point-eight.html

[youtube=fDFsq-KnzkQ]Five[/youtube]

[youtube=17YGpit3zRk]Nine[/youtube]

Have a look at these videos to see which group you fall into:

[youtube=XOuuk9ms0So]5, 6, 7[/youtube]

[youtube=X7_6rTGSyvw]8, 9, 1[/youtube]

sorry to digress from this thread, but.....I watched those interesting videos..... and....do you think it's possible for a child who was (emotionally) "neglected" in some way to not become a nine? I guess I don't really understand how enneagramm works..... does it suggest that you develop your type due to what you experience?

 

[Resonance]

sorry to digress from this thread, but.....I watched those interesting videos..... and....do you think it's possible for a child who was (emotionally) "neglected" in some way to not become a nine? I guess I don't really understand how enneagramm works..... does it suggest that you develop your type due to what you experience?

It's pretty much inborn, it's just that certain things happen a certain way because of it...

..like for example, I was a really placid child, always happy with whatever toy I had, etc. so my parents got in the habit of not needing to do much to keep me happy. Something like that.

 

[Rena]

Nines and Fives are really different types- you could say they almost opposites in many ways. I tend to think you are a Nine. Here's why:

Many Nines mistaken type themselves as Fives (particularly if they are well-educated and intelligent). Fives rarely think they are Nines though. Nines often have a hard time typing themselves because they see a little of themselves in every type- it's because they are always trying to be recpetive to other people, to the point that they identify more with others than themselves.

Nines are easygoing, patient and accomodating. Fives are strong-minded and highly resistant to the influence of others. Nines like people and are trusting-sometimes too much so. Fives on the other hand, are suspicious of people and cynical.

Nines typically do not concern themselves with details, and they aren't usually good at following up once they have acted. By contrast, Fives are highly focused- love details, losing themselves in research. By contrast, even brilliant Nines tend to have problems concentrating; they also tend to lose interest quickly and to allow their attention to drift off.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Nines and Fives are really different types- you could say they almost opposites in many ways. I tend to think you are a Nine. Here's why:

Many Nines mistaken type themselves as Fives (particularly if they are well-educated and intelligent). Fives rarely think they are Nines though. Nines often have a hard time typing themselves because they see a little of themselves in every type- it's because they are always trying to be recpetive to other people, to the point that they identify more with others than themselves.

Nines are easygoing, patient and accomodating. Fives are strong-minded and highly resistant to the influence of others. Nines like people and are trusting-sometimes too much so. Fives on the other hand, are suspicious of people and cynical.

Nines typically do not concern themselves with details, and they aren't usually good at following up once they have acted. By contrast, Fives are highly focused- love details, losing themselves in research. By contrast, even brilliant Nines tend to have problems concentrating; they also tend to lose interest quickly and to allow their attention to drift off.

The bolded is excellent. All in all great stuff. I may have to pick your brain for instinctual variant differences...

 

[Resonance]

Re: 5vs9
I had the opposite problem actually. I thought I was a 9 because I am really quite accommodating IRL, but some (knowledgeable) people helped me realize I identify more with the fears, priorities, attitudes etc. of a 5, and the 9ish tendencies are better explained by 'social instincts'.

I don't think it is that uncommon.

 

[Rena]

The bolded is excellent. All in all great stuff. I may have to pick your brain for instinctual variant differences...

Re: 5vs9
I had the opposite problem actually. I thought I was a 9 because I am really quite accommodating IRL, but some (knowledgeable) people helped me realize I identify more with the fears, priorities, attitudes etc. of a 5, and the 9ish tendencies are better explained by 'social instincts'.

I don't think it is that uncommon.

There is definitely no hard fast rules for typing- but in general, that is more unusual. Most Fives aren't very accomodating to the point Nines are.

 

[StephMC]

Many Nines mistaken type themselves as Fives (particularly if they are well-educated and intelligent). Fives rarely think they are Nines though. Nines often have a hard time typing themselves because they see a little of themselves in every type- it's because they are always trying to be recpetive to other people, to the point that they identify more with others than themselves.

Nines are easygoing, patient and accomodating. Fives are strong-minded and highly resistant to the influence of others. Nines like people and are trusting-sometimes too much so. Fives on the other hand, are suspicious of people and cynical.

Nines typically do not concern themselves with details, and they aren't usually good at following up once they have acted. By contrast, Fives are highly focused- love details, losing themselves in research. By contrast, even brilliant Nines tend to have problems concentrating; they also tend to lose interest quickly and to allow their attention to drift off.

I read this somewhere when I was trying to decide between a 9 and 5. My issue with this description was that I couldn't see myself in any other type other than 9 and 5. And it was a 60/40 split between 9 and 5. I'm somewhere in between the differences described above. Anyways, I do believe more 9s may think they're 5s than vice versa. What it came down to for me is that I'm more of an easy-going person than strong-minded, etc.

 

[compulsiverambler]

Nines typically do not concern themselves with details, and they aren't usually good at following up once they have acted. By contrast, Fives are highly focused- love details, losing themselves in research. By contrast, even brilliant Nines tend to have problems concentrating; they also tend to lose interest quickly and to allow their attention to drift off.

You're describing Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. In SCT, there are neurological problems causing low energy, particular information processing problems and a tendency towards anxiety, especially social anxiety as a result of not being able to master situations and react to the unpredictable effectively. All of these things make them act a lot like how Nines normally act superficially, but they won't necessarily have the same Basic Fear of a Nine causing that behaviour, and neither will they think like a Nine unless they also happen to be one. In my experience they're actually very often Fives, because being incompetent tends to affect their early lives more than any other of the Fears, so they naturally come to fear that more than anything else and over-compensate in the ways characteristic of the Five, even if some of their behaviours are shared by Nines.

I know a few classic Nines who agree with me that they're Nines, and they don't have low energy levels or significant concentration problems, they're just more laid-back than most because they prioritise keeping everything calm outside and inside themselves. They can develop somewhat low energy when under stress because they then have to devote a lot of mental energy to keeping both the outer and inner world calm, as is explained in the Wisdom of the Enneagram, but even then they're distinguishable from people with SCT.

It's the Basic Fear you need to look at. Your Basic Fear is the one that the rest of your personality and behaviour seems to be arranged around the most even when things are going well for you. If you're being chased by a dog your primary fear and behaviour will be that of a Six, but it doesn't mean you're a Six. Any real problem that's pre-occupying you at the moment isn't representative of your true Basic Fear, even if it's an ongoing one like trying to get by with SCT. It's the underlying fear that influences your behaviour the most whenever you've nothing serious and pressing to worry about.

 

[MacGuffin]

I used to think I was a 5, but I realized the core of what makes a 9 tick (keeping the peace) is what really drives me.