[ENFJ] ENFJ and INFJ Relationships - How to Love Them

[Fidelia]

Congrats Ergo! Tell us more!

 

[Synarch]

Ergo, I thought you had an ISTJ bf or something?

 

[ergophobe]

Fid - Still early days. By and by, for sure.
One titbit: I'm drawn to overwhelming kindness and generosity in this person. Genuinely attractive.

Syn - No ISTJ. I think you're thinking of ENFPer.

 

[FemMecha]

The Balloon

Imagine a helium balloon you received when you weren’t feeling physically well, perhaps needed cheering up, or you received it as a reminder that you are loved. It was there to provide a lightening of the spirit and perhaps a little hope. As your hand held the string it served a purpose, there was a reason for the balloon to drift lightly alongside you.

There came a day it slipped through your fingers. It might have been that you no longer needed it, possibly you changed your mind and didn’t care for it, but then again it might have slipped accidentally from your hand. As it drifted upwards the reason disintegrated into the air.

It is ridiculous to imagine the balloon becoming angry or revengeful as a reaction to these events because that isn’t why balloons exist in the first place. Instead it begins to drift ever upwards with an increasing existential isolation fueled by inevitability. The balloon becomes lost with a sense of increasing internal pressure resulting from its upward momentum into the vast expanse.

As time passes there appears to be an advantage to these circumstances after all. A broader perspective comes into view as the balloon looks down now being able to see all the people. Some are holding balloons, some have just let go, and others are hoping to find another. There is purpose and inter-connection all around. There is but one lingering question at this juncture: how can one become unstuck from the edge of the stratosphere?

 

[Synarch]

Syn - No ISTJ. I think you're thinking of ENFPer.

Ah, could be that's what it is.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Speaking for myself, being honest or genuine in my interactions is not only the norm, but it's also what I *want* to be. Being fake is repugnant.

However...

One may live one's life very much as "oneself" while never fully exposing the flank to attack. I've explained this to my befuddled ENFP twin over and over, and she gets what I'm saying, but she finds the behavior mystifying in practice. I see her openness as an alarming thing that requires my shielding (though she can certainly handle herself fine...). Most NFJs I've met are the same way and I have no idea why.

As I said before, living on the surface is excruciating. Perhaps this ENFJ you speak of realizes that he's not opening up enough, fears your loss (as a valued person) and offers you a little more access or glimpse into himself because he doesn't want you to go.

That sort of response will NOT be protracted, more like a few flashes of lightning, and then darkness again. We're not very good at *remaining* on the surface.

I don't see this ENFJ as fake at all, or even shallow, and that's precisely why I'd like to see those "flashes" more. I very much think the bolded part is true....

Maybe I am comparing him to my other ENFJ friend too much, but he goes to almost the other extreme where he is constantly opening up to me because he has the happy, confident face with everyone else and I'm one of the few trusted.

This sounds a lot like my ENFJ friend. It really boggles my mind that she seems incapable of summoning up certain things for conversation or sharing. She really seems inaccessible in some fundamental way. We went to the beach for a few weeks because her father has a beach house and only when we both got drunk did she open up about some things. And I was so shocked because it was so much worse than I had imagined. She had experienced so many things that most people would never experience. I could see why she kept it to herself with most people because really a lot of people can't handle when things get real. I think being rather emotionally distant can help me in such cases because I don't suffer from pangs of empathy. I just want to listen and understand. But, I think that was the last time we really broached such personal things. I do understand now why she avoids such territory. Much easier to focus on other people and being "outside".

Well, this particular ENFJ friend of mine has certainly had trauma. He does this sort of "cryptic whining" at times, but if you ask why he's down, he brushes it off. I thought maybe it's because he does not feel safe to confide, but I also think he suddenly becomes embarrassed and feels overly dramatic.

I wouldn't call my empathetic feeling "pangs" at all, as it does not necessarily wear on me to listen, and I'm unusual in the sense that I don't find such discussions to be downers....but I suppose a lot of people do and that's why they are hesitant to even venture into that territory. I think you're right in saying that these types of people deal with it by blocking it out. In fact, I am now suspecting that his "cryptic whining" is not seeking an outlet so much as a distraction....I wouldn't call it a "cry for attention" as I don't see him as any attention whore, but I don't think he's looking to discuss so much as to be diverted from it.

 

[copperfish17]

Bringing the thread back from its necro-ness...

I don't see this ENFJ as fake at all, or even shallow, and that's precisely why I'd like to see those "flashes" more.

Well, this particular ENFJ friend of mine has certainly had trauma. He does this sort of "cryptic whining" at times, but if you ask why he's down, he brushes it off. I thought maybe it's because he does not feel safe to confide, but I also think he suddenly becomes embarrassed and feels overly dramatic.

Interesting... so what do you E/INFJs have to say about being described as secretive (in general)? Is this an accurate claim to make? Why do you feel inclined to "hide" your inner self from people? Is it some sort of paranoia, perhaps (as in you're afraid others might use your "soft side" against you)? Is it just because you like keeping to yourself (which certainly is true for myself)?

I ask b/c I know an ENFJ who refuses to share any minute details of her life with anyone - her cell phone number, skype mailing address, even her BIRTHDAY... which makes me wonder. Perhaps she's just an odd one/extreme case.

Interested in hearing from INFJ's too!

Man, NFJ's are hard to read into... primarily 'cuz of their Fe. I don't do Fe. *inferior function*

 

[Unkindloving]

Interesting... so what do you E/INFJs have to say about being described as secretive (in general)? Is this an accurate claim to make? Why do you feel inclined to "hide" your inner self from people? Is it some sort of paranoia, perhaps (as in you're afraid others might use your "soft side" against you)? Is it just because you like keeping to yourself (which certainly is true for myself)?

Paranoia and vulnerability. I would say we are people whose express drive is to let others trust in us. We can sort through who we can trust and to what extent pretty easily, especially with more life experience, but it doesn't come up with positive results as frequently as we'd like. This is especially the case given how intense we are and how much of us there is to take in and understand.

I could see other ENFJs being considered secretive.
A lot of the time, i think i am appearing extremely open while i am being secretive about very important aspects that would color understanding better. I'll tell people anything they are curious about, but detaching the emotions leaves out an entire world of how it really is. Amusing to think about, actually.

Man, NFJ's are hard to read into... primarily 'cuz of their Fe. I don't do Fe. *inferior function*

If we're hard to read into.. i think we've accomplished our goal, even if we don't know it is part of the goal.

 

[OrangeAppled]

A lot of the time, i think i am appearing extremely open while i am being secretive about very important aspects that would color understanding better. I'll tell people anything they are curious about, but detaching the emotions leaves out an entire world of how it really is. Amusing to think about, actually.

Yep - this is how that ENFJ is. I've realized that I have known him 4+ years and he knows far more personal details about me than I know about him. This imbalance is disconcerting for me, as it's usually flipped with my friends. I'm used to being the cryptic one!!!

 

[Unkindloving]

Yep - this is how that ENFJ is. I've realized that I have known him 4+ years and he knows far more personal details about me than I know about him. This imbalance is disconcerting for me, as it's usually flipped with my friends. I'm used to being the cryptic one!!!

That's what happens when you notice it . I think a lot of people take it as face value and move along. Once you notice it and turn more attention to the enfj, you'll see all of the gaps.
It's a pretty great tactic in a way. We are skilled at keeping the focus off of ourselves so it distracts people from recognizing what we leave out. We read people really well, which can make us more capable of masking our own obviousness in being read by others.

I think what i subconsciously hope for is people deducing the entire reality from what i give them to work with. I can give people every detail, but they'll get hung up on my lack of obvious reaction. I want someone to listen to what i tell them and get beyond how i mask myself, without accusation or heaps of effort.

 

[Virtual ghost]

That's what happens when you notice it . I think a lot of people take it as face value and move along. Once you notice it and turn more attention to the enfj, you'll see all of the gaps.
It's a pretty great tactic in a way. We are skilled at keeping the focus off of ourselves so it distracts people from recognizing what we leave out. We read people really well, which can make us more capable of masking our own obviousness in being read by others.

Unless of course someone takes the effort of learning alot about you even before you two exchange a single word.

 

[Unkindloving]

Unless of course someone takes the effort of learning alot about you even before you two exchange a single word.

I would imagine that to be difficult, but such things are possible. I'm going to call that stalkability and it makes my spidey senses all happy and tingly.

 

[nynesneg]

Interesting... so what do you E/INFJs have to say about being described as secretive (in general)? Is this an accurate claim to make? Why do you feel inclined to "hide" your inner self from people? Is it some sort of paranoia, perhaps (as in you're afraid others might use your "soft side" against you)? Is it just because you like keeping to yourself (which certainly is true for myself)?

I agree with what Unkindloving said. Also another reason came up in discussion the other day with a friend. Still exploring this, as it's somewhat subconscious...

Often even if I'm comfortable with someone, I don't volunteer a lot of personal information in conversation. Even if the other person it talking about all kinds of things about themselves. Most the time it seems like what I'd have to say would be slightly irrelevant information, details they don't need to know, and I honestly don't think other people are interested in hearing half the personal details or stories that were only funny to me. But apparently it's otherwise. So I just thrive like a plant soaking up water if someone has the patience/desire to draw these things out of me.

 

[copperfish17]

I would imagine that to be difficult, but such things are possible. I'm going to call that stalkability and it makes my spidey senses all happy and tingly.

So, should I start stalking me ENFJ today? Just kidding!

Often even if I'm comfortable with someone, I don't volunteer a lot of personal information in conversation. Even if the other person it talking about all kinds of things about themselves. Most the time it seems like what I'd have to say would be slightly irrelevant information, details they don't need to know, and I honestly don't think other people are interested in hearing half the personal details or stories that were only funny to me. But apparently it's otherwise. So I just thrive like a plant soaking up water if someone has the patience/desire to draw these things out of me.

Simply put: ENFJ's appreciate it when other people make an effort to get to know them on a personal level. Gotcha!

Excerpts from PersonalityPage:

ENFJ

Since relationships are central to the ENFJ's life, they will be very "hands on" and involved with their intimate relationships. They may be in the habit of constantly asking their partner how they're doing, what they're feeling, etc. This behavior may be a bit smothering, but it also supports a strong awareness of the health (or illness) of the relationship.

The ENFJ looks forward to intimacy as an opportunity to express love and caring. The ENFJ is generally very interested in the happiness and satisfaction of their partner. Because they achieve much of their personal satisfaction from making others happy, they're likely to be skilled lovers. Like other Judgers, the ENFJ is likely to follow a schedule for intimacy, and may be prone to becoming routinized. For the ENFJ, the most important aspect of a relationship is the affirmation of love and affection.

Although the ENFJ will probably not ask for it, they need to be given sweet words and loving affirmation. Since they are so externally focused on serving people, they do not always pay attention to their own needs. Since much of their personal satisfaction comes from bringing happiness to others, they're able to ignore their own needs and still be happy much more easily than other types. However, if they focus entirely on giving without doing some taking, they may find themselves in an unhealthy, unbalanced relationship. They need to work on being aware of their needs, and being OK with verbalizing those needs to their partners.

---

INFJ

INFJs have uncanny insight into people and situations. They get "feelings" about things and intuitively understand them. As an extreme example, some INFJs report experiences of a psychic nature, such as getting strong feelings about there being a problem with a loved one, and discovering later that they were in a car accident. This is the sort of thing that other types may scorn and scoff at, and the INFJ themself does not really understand their intuition at a level which can be verbalized. Consequently, most INFJs are protective of their inner selves, sharing only what they choose to share when they choose to share it. They are deep, complex individuals, who are quite private and typically difficult to understand. INFJs hold back part of themselves, and can be secretive.

But the INFJ is as genuinely warm as they are complex. INFJs hold a special place in the heart of people who they are close to, who are able to see their special gifts and depth of caring. INFJs are concerned for people's feelings, and try to be gentle to avoid hurting anyone. They are very sensitive to conflict, and cannot tolerate it very well. Situations which are charged with conflict may drive the normally peaceful INFJ into a state of agitation or charged anger. They may tend to internalize conflict into their bodies, and experience health problems when under a lot of stress.

---

I would like to investigate the validity of the underlined descriptions.

Discuss, por favor!

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

Being an INFJ, some things that "work" for me in the whole "not romantic love department":

Share yourself, don't withdraw because that makes me withdraw as well. Listen to what I'm saying because at that time, it is important to me to say it. You don't have to agree, just pay attention. Share the things that make you happy because that shows me you trust me and feel comfortable around me.

It's really nice when people remember little details that I've shared with them because that shows me that they do care enough about me to really listen.

This might be just me but anything excessive about verbal/nonverbal affection freezes me right up. It's kind of embarrassing and seems like it's fake even when it's not. Little gestures like asking about something you know I like to do regularly, or what interests me in depth. Showing interest also shows that you care about me and what makes me happy.

Be honest, show yourself as you really are, don't break the trust, stick around but don't try to smother and don't try too hard.

All that creates a nice comfortable atmosphere and neither of us has to worry about taking some extra special measures to show that we care.

You can probably tell that an INFJ likes you when they keep coming back to you. When they start avoiding you, you know that something is up.

Good luck with everything!

I found this really helpful. Thank you for this post!

 

[nynesneg]

They need to work on being aware of their needs, and being OK with verbalizing those needs to their partners.

Holy crap! Analyzing life and philosophy with a friend the other day and they pointed out to me that it's a natural weakness I need to work on. So I have been contemplating this. Noticed I don't really even take my needs into consideration most of the time, I'm so busy making the other person happy.

I completely didn't realize it was a point on the type description...

 

[NightSkyGirl]

INFJs have uncanny insight into people and situations. They get "feelings" about things and intuitively understand them.

This is true on some levels. As an INFJ female I can tell you that there's been very many times when I can sense what someone is feeling/thinking without being told and more often than not I've been right.

the INFJ themself does not really understand their intuition at a level which can be verbalized. Consequently, most INFJs are protective of their inner selves, sharing only what they choose to share when they choose to share it.

This is also true. I find that I'm a very private person in real life and I only share certain things with a few close friends whom I can trust. It is difficult for me to be open, I suppose because I'm a very sensitive individual and I'm always afraid of getting hurt.

INFJs hold a special place in the heart of people who they are close to, who are able to see their special gifts and depth of caring.

I think this is also true. There's been times when I haven't been able to see my friends for long periods of times due to some issues I've been experiencing and I'm suprised that they are still willing to be there for me now. They say that I've demonstrated being a true friend and done things for them that no one else has, so they stand by me even when I'm going through tough times.

They are very sensitive to conflict, and cannot tolerate it very well.

As an INFJ female I can say that I'm very much a peacemaker and unnecessary conflict stresses me too much, so I tend to avoid it as much as possible. I like getting along with people and I generally don't have any trouble with that.

They may tend to internalize conflict into their bodies, and experience health problems when under a lot of stress.

This is true for me. I've actually become physically ill when having to deal with lots conflict with people I truly care about. I have a tendency to blame myself and wonder what I did wrong(even if it wasn't my fault) and this puts a lot of pressure on me. It's really quite hard on me since I like making people feel good and I don't do so well when confronted with too much stress.

Hope this helps.

 

[Vasilisa]

This is true on some levels. As an INFJ female I can tell you that there's been very many times when I can sense what someone is feeling/thinking without being told and more often than not I've been right.
...
As an INFJ female I can say that I'm very much a peacemaker and unnecessary conflict stresses me too much, so I tend to avoid it as much as possible. I like getting along with people and I generally don't have any trouble with that.

I feel very sensitive to what I depict as vibes people give off. This can cause me to really resent the inconsiderate negative people or the gloom merchants who spread disagreeableness in an aggressive way. The ones that I'm forced to interact with and behave in that way for attention and are rewarded really bother me. I want to make a distinction because I do not resent people who are going through tough times or look like they are down in the dumps or need someone to hear them. In fact I have much compassion for them. I like to get along. But unfortunately I have found there is some behavior I can't abide. Its not because I'm intolerant, but I think its because I am so sensitive.

I know its so trendy now to say, "I hate drama" and all that, but I have doorslammed people for consistently starting fights or being toxic to otherwise completely harmonious relationships (usually they're this way because of personal insecurities/immaturity) in circumstances when it would have been much easier for me to just play along with their little game. But I cannot deal with toxic sorts like this. Its too disturbing to me psychically and spiritually. I would rather walk a lonely road then walk in their group.

Sorry if this has gone off-topic. To bring it back around to the OP, here is my advice: in order to love your INFJ do not subject them to this kind of constant fighting/dramarama

 

[nynesneg]

So here's another more personal-to-me spin on the OP's question. I'm pretty sure a teammate of mine at school is an INFJ. We've seen each other every day and worked together for the past 8 months. I know she considers me a friend on some level.

However I'd love to get to know her as a better personal friend, and I can see a lot of areas where we could connect. But she is always so high strung and stressed out with her projects. She is ridiculously hard on the details and herself, and worries more about being fair to each person in the group than anybody. I love this girl though, and can relate to a lot of these things myself she just seems perhaps not perfectly healthy at the moment or something. Anyway. My point is. It's difficult to get to know her - anytime I invite her to interact outside of school she has her finicky personal life. And when personal topics come up, she doesn't really let you in even if you try. I particularly had an opportunity for this recently with breaking up with my bf... and she initially swore to be a great friend but was wrapped up in her personal wishes/life.

How can I get to know her better? Get her to slow down and realize she can be comfortable with me opening up, and I'm genuinely interested in getting to know her? I am somewhat natural at this as an ENFJ, but still want to hear some perspectives from other INFJs on this woman.

 

[Vasilisa]

nynesneg, I wonder if your teammate is so drained from the demanding project schedule and interacting at school, that is why she is being so reclusive. I'm sorry she wasn't more supportive of you during your recent hard time, but sometimes we can't even simply listen without getting invested and drawn into your emotion. For her it might have been just too much. My advice is don't pry. Sometimes talking about surface things is easier. Once she realizes you truly listen, she may share small tidbits. Another thing, if you come off as petty, like mocking other people, spreading rumors, she might think you aren't trustworthy with her personal info and my edit what she shares with you. What about starting off the relationship through correspondence? Would that be too odd? I mean emailing her/social network msg (if shes into it) instead of phone calls. Then she could process you on her time, not have to react instantaneously like on the phone or in person off-campus and she may open up in kind. Just some ideas. Hope they help.