[ENFJ] ENFJ and INFJ Relationships - How to Love Them

[Sniffles]

Listen to fidelia, she knows what she's talking about!

 

[Fidelia]

Unfinished business is huge. My ISTJ father avoids discussion at all costs, which is very difficult for my ENFJ mother who NEEDS it to get done with anything. It's like putting someone in a barrel and then closing up all the knotholes in the barrel so they can't breathe even a bit!

I have seen a trend in the kind of people that I have tended to date in the past (strong, smart, secretly insecure and not good with showing vulnerability). They typically are the ones to break up, but with no proper explanation and closure. There is inconsistent behaviour which indicates that they regret having broken up, yet a lot of other behaviour after which makes me question who they really were in the first place. This is the worst kind of lack of closure and only wears off after years of no contact and still remains as Domino said, like markers in an ancient battlefield. In the one friendship that broke off in an unexplained way, it still bothers me, although it is easier to let go of.

 

[lasdf23]

I feel really loved when the time/effort I've spent on you is recognized (i.e. being thanked, being showed appreciation through reciprocity, etc) although I would hesitate/feel guilty to receive it at first.

Also, please keep in mind that most of the ENFJ's communication is established based on the assumption of us reaching out to you.

I spread my attention and affection pretty widely among the various people that I care about. Most of them tends to be introverts (cause I can relax around them better and not act all energetic like I do around extroverts..so draining after a while!!), so I guess me reaching out to them is sufficient of interaction between us...we would have a good time together, until I initiate another arrangement. It's fine the way it is, but when those same people call me to meet up or just hang out, it makes me feel good...almost to me like a proof that I'm being a good friend. Though we tend to be the ones throwing the balls when communicating, what we really want is for you to be throwing the balls back at us.

One way to really make me like you is for you to create an environment for us that says "you can be comfortable here and be yourself here."

I (college student), for example, have many mutually exclusive groups of friends (i.e. business school high achievers/social climbers, computer science nerds, humanities hippies, etc). In fact, I pride myself in my ability to approach these separate groups and becoming one of them, but we do it at a cost of losing the sense of ourself--who we really are. I can only "act like myself" when I'm in my apartment by myself, but really, I want to share that actual personality with some of the closest people I care for. Yet, it's so hard to do that because when I'm outside, it's a compulsion to leave behind my actual identity and make myself "one of theirs" so that I can understand others better. Long stories short, if you can break an ENFJ's cycle and say, it's ok to be yourself in front of me, and create a welcoming environment for that, you will be forever a memorable person in an ENFJ's life (it sounds like I'm exaggerating but it's true!).

I, for myself, have found a comfortable environment where I can act like myself and not worry about "fitting in" with others...or so I thought. It turned out, some non-platonic feelings and unexpected situations had developed overtime and made the whole environment wretched and unbearable. I lost my connection to the group, felt unwanted/unwelcome, and ended up having to cut my ties off entirely with a group of friends that I shared 80% of my time with for half a year. The feeling of emptiness was.. overwhelming to say the least. I lost my motivation to do things (like school work or socializing with people), I lost my ability to relate to others...I just could not see the world the same way I did before. I'm still not 100% recovered yet, and it still brings me to tears when I think of how much those group of friends meant to me and how comfortable we were with each other when things were going fine (it really did feel like a family). And what really gets me is the fact that they don't seem to share that feeling (at least they haven't attempted any measures to salvage the situation and invite me back into the group).

Sorry for the digression towards the end, but I think the central theme in loving an ENFJ is to revert back the attention he/she gives you back to him/herself. A good imagery would be like the drawing of the sun...we divert our energy in all different directions, all the time. It's our way of seeing the world, we can't help it. At times we want to rest...but we still want to feel bright, just not because we're emitting light, but because others' lights are shining on us. That's the only time when we feel like we can relax and rest, and still be healthy (we need to be bright to feel healthy...otherwise we get depressed).

Gosh how did I come up with that analogy? Sorry if it was confusing, I'm not poetic by nature, but hope you got a sense of it.

 

[lasdf23]

ENFJs suffer from an inordinate sense of guilt, IME. Anything you could do to alleviate that probably would be useful. My ENFJ mother also really needs to be allowed to talk to get things dealt with. Although they are not conflict avoidant, other people's unhappiness seems to very much impede their own ability to feel happy (Fe, I guess?). I dunno. The ENFJs I know are greatly helped by someone sharing the emotional load of either big projects they have taken on or their sadness/concern/care for those closest to them. I don't know if this is typical or not though. I'd be interested to read any other ENFJ responses on this.

Fidelia you're dead on for this. Seeing my friends suffer and shelled up drains my mood, and feeling my friends' excitement energizes me as well. Our immediate response when seeing someone we care for go through hard times is to offer our help. Do you need to talk? Why do you feel that way? We naturally assume the role of Dr. Phil. Come to think about it, maybe consuling others in trouble is in it of itself a way to bring up our own emotional state by helping others feel better (because when others feel better you feel better too!). I can totally see myself doing that, other ENFJs what do you think?

 

[Fidelia]

I think similarly, ENFJs are more likely to risk someone's potential wrath by pointing something out or bringing up something they believe will cause harm to the other person if not addressed (much more than an INFJ would). They are more aggressive in doing good (rather than cautiously waiting to be invited in) and also find it more difficult not to express strong feelings on an issue. At the same time the ones I know are pretty sensitive to and aware of how other people feel and sometimes undergo agonies after saying something in wondering how to fix the "damage" they feel they could potentially have caused, although it was an issue that they were compelled to say something about. They put their money where their mouth is and if they give advice, they will follow it through to the end in helping the other person. Some of the most energetic, capable, hospitable, reaching out, kind people I know are ENFJs.

 

[Sinmara]

Fidelia you're dead on for this. Seeing my friends suffer and shelled up drains my mood, and feeling my friends' excitement energizes me as well. Our immediate response when seeing someone we care for go through hard times is to offer our help. Do you need to talk? Why do you feel that way? We naturally assume the role of Dr. Phil. Come to think about it, maybe consuling others in trouble is in it of itself a way to bring up our own emotional state by helping others feel better (because when others feel better you feel better too!). I can totally see myself doing that, other ENFJs what do you think?

I find the bolded very interesting when thinking of the ENFJ I know. He's a conservative republican member of the NRA who tries to be as much a manly-man as possible, but ALL of his women friends immediately fit him into the "best girlfriend" slot and gush to him about their life and relationship troubles. It never fails, he not only gets friend-zoned right off the bat, he gets the Honorary Vagina Award. Mind you, he complains about them treating him like their girlfriend, but he's part of the problem because he talks to them at length about their problems with a sympathetic ear. He feels compelled and even obligated to do the Dr Phil thing for everyone because he can't turn them away when they appear to need his help.

Now, I mention this because my relationship with him is nothing like that whatsoever. I don't burden him with huge emotional problems that make him feel helpless because he can't do anything to fix it or make me feel better. In fact, I'm the one he goes to when he's feeling down and needs someone to talk to because I'm the only one he feels comfortable enough with to show his vulnerability. Everyone is so preoccupied with their own problems and are so thankful that he's there to talk to that they fail to see that he might need to talk about his own problems too. It's all very one-sided.

ANYWAY, I need to get to my point someday, so here it is -- even though I've observed that ENFJs are acutely aware of and concerned with the well-being of their loved ones and will do the Dr Phil thing if they need to talk, I've also witnessed the downside of this and I've seen how playing the psychologist role could take its toll on them and become a burden after a while.

 

[FemMecha]

Forgotten or retained, I can't rest easy in any one scenario. People stick to me like pests to fly paper. My love was corporeal, remains so in my memory. My Se demands a touchstone, so the memories never fade and stand like markers dotting an ancient battlefield where you can still find bullets and bones. I both cling to and resent this.

I do have some closure issue where I am left ricocheting between different scenarios when I don't have an explanation. Sometimes I will understand it, but the problem there is that it steals my thunder to be able to feel any anger because it makes too much sense. That has helped me realize that understanding isn't always equivalent to closure - or perhaps it will be after I gain more.

Although I am old enough to be a little burnt out by it and will tend to look for the simplest explanation and hold to it as close enough. Sometimes I'll have an occasional adrenaline rush wondering if I let the person down or blindly made a mistake. I have a history of people responding to me with social disinterest. This later occurred with romantic interests, and I've had significant relationships in which the other person just lost interest and drifted away. After decades of analysis I think it has some simple elements. For starters, people just do this in their relationships to others because of their own lives. Also, I don't usually challenge people emotionally or instill much emotional fire into a relationship which is boring for some people even if just subconsciously. The part of me that is interesting is rather abstract, so I have to be able to have a meeting of the minds. I'm also distant enough by nature that people aren't sure what to do with me. After everything though, I do think that if a person doesn't spend time it implies some kind of lack of interest to do so. I'm not exactly hurt by it, although in some sort of vapid, nebulous way there is some hurt, but moreso I see it as part of life and so my disappointment in the end is a constructed pain inside my mind.

 

[Unkindloving]

Though we tend to be the ones throwing the balls when communicating, what we really want is for you to be throwing the balls back at us.

One way to really make me like you is for you to create an environment for us that says "you can be comfortable here and be yourself here."

These are perfect.

I lost my connection to the group, felt unwanted/unwelcome, and ended up having to cut my ties off entirely with a group of friends that I shared 80% of my time with for half a year. The feeling of emptiness was.. overwhelming to say the least. I lost my motivation to do things (like school work or socializing with people), I lost my ability to relate to others...I just could not see the world the same way I did before. I'm still not 100% recovered yet, and it still brings me to tears when I think of how much those group of friends meant to me and how comfortable we were with each other when things were going fine (it really did feel like a family). And what really gets me is the fact that they don't seem to share that feeling (at least they haven't attempted any measures to salvage the situation and invite me back into the group).

I'm glad you went into this description. It's almost exact to my group of friends and reactions at the moment, apart from longer time period and who cut off ties.
Did you attempt to resolve the situation or withdraw from them completely? I've withdrawn from mine and wanted to (intend to) reach out, but haven't yet. Also, any idea what types they were? Mine are all introverts and mainly dealing with IxTJs. Explaining the overwhelming ENFJ reaction is difficult to people. They either don't understand it at all or don't understand hesitation.
Also -

 

[Fidelia]

I've found that some ENFJs despite being very warm to others are kind of private people. Is that by choice, or is it that others don't tend to take the initiative to dig more? Would you resent gentle digging?

 

[lasdf23]

I'm glad you went into this description. It's almost exact to my group of friends and reactions at the moment, apart from longer time period and who cut off ties.
Did you attempt to resolve the situation or withdraw from them completely? I've withdrawn from mine and wanted to (intend to) reach out, but haven't yet. Also, any idea what types they were? Mine are all introverts and mainly dealing with IxTJs. Explaining the overwhelming ENFJ reaction is difficult to people. They either don't understand it at all or don't understand hesitation.
Also -

It was a slew of things altogether. I lost one of the best friends out of the group while was played by another. At the same time, I saw the relationships amongst themselves and with me, all slowly deteriorate. I attempted to resolve the situation first by reaching out to them, but by that time they were so ill that I felt an impenetrable wall between them and I. Also, they didn't seem to understand the reason and extent why I was so concerned over their well-beings. So gradually we lost that sense of common ground.

I tried resolving the situation by telling myself it was going to be ok and I should stick to my group of friends...that they were right in feeling intruded by my concerns for them, and that I can work on myself to make the situation resolve. But I couldn't do it. One night I was sitting in their living room, and it all the sudden hit me... hit me that I no longer have a place among this group of people, and that I no longer shared much with them. So I grabbed my stuff, left, and have not been back since. So I guess it was a mutual thing.. we grew apart, and I held on, but when I realized I couldn't do that anymore without wearing myself down, I cut the ties off myself.

The guys were mostly introverts, I think my (ex) best friend was an ISTJ, the guy who played me was an ISTP. A few others were IXTJ...I believe.

 

[lasdf23]

I've found that some ENFJs despite being very warm to others are kind of private people. Is that by choice, or is it that others don't tend to take the initiative to dig more? Would you resent gentle digging?

How about I put it this way? Being warm is a default mood when we deal with other people, it's like a coat that we put on. Maybe it's a subconscious choice, because when I'm being warm at others I don't have to direct my attention to myself, which usually results in some introspective/sullen mood. I have a feeling that others, especially if they are introverts, will see that and take it at face value, and be satisfied with interacting with the warm ENFJ. But I myself would actually appreciate it if somebody took notice of the coat and offer to take it off for me. So no, it's actually a great benchmark in relationship if somebody wants to dig a bit deeper into me.

 

[Domino]

I really like all the responses in here. Gaining insight into others like me is always welcome.

How can I show an E/INFJ that I care about/love him/her?

Like Toonia mentioned, listening is really important when I need to be heard. It's a way of learning how I operate, and it's also a way to build my trust. I glean a lot of personal information from open conversation - not just content or words, but body language, spontaneous reactions, tone, humor, etc. Building my trust through "every day" contact is non-negotiable.

Never dismiss my feelings on subjects of passion. If something has me fired up, even when it's apparent that I'm in the grip, be kind and let me rattle to a halt. My ENFP twin has become adept at this over the years. You don't have to dart me out of the tree - usually I climb down slowly, crying (if upset) or hissing/spitting (if angry) and sit next to you, but only when I know I won't be hit over the head with judgment. My twin will tell me what has to happen, and because she allowed me to let it all hang out, I listen to her.

I have yet to experience that kind of almost child-like openness with anyone in a romantic relationship. I fear I may be seeing the first and last of such a thing, and I suppose I should be very grateful to experience it at all.

Telling anyone what has to happen kindly in love (even if that love means a swift kick to the behind) is the only way to build trust and to show you aren't an opportunistic vengeful person to your loved one.


What are some specific things that I can do or say to "love" an E/INFJ?

You'll know after spending some time with me.


How much verbal/non-verbal affection do E/INFJ's want/need?

I don't like tons of it. I like it to take me off guard. With my ISTP best friend, I appreciated how he could stand next to me in an independent way but also managing to make me feel like a unit at the same time. At a time when people and circumstances were crushing the life out of me, he just stood by and waited for me to ask for his help instead of imposing. He made his care for me known by his presence and his tacit willingness to help when called on.

With my ESFP best friend, it's her warmth, hugs and her ability to ground me. I have terrible trouble with grounding myself. She makes things way less scary. With my ENTJ best friend, it's the mutual understanding, her automatic willingness to climb down into the hole with me, and her instinctive love of my fierce nature. Being ferocious doesn't faze her. We have that in common.

I liked the way my ENTP ex-bf would sit/stand really close to me in this very nonchalant manner like I didn't notice what he was doing. To feel his chest against my back, or his arm mostly around me just enough where I could play with his hands was really nice.

How can you tell if an E/INFJ likes you?

Oh you'll KNOW. I'll call you by name. Smile. Even if you're across the street, I'll shout a hello and wave. I'll threaten to call you. I'll threaten to come over and vacuum out your car. I'll make friends with your pets who will then turn on you and take you hostage at my command. Yes, even the goldfish.

There was a poker-faced ISTP boy at my college that I used to verbally spar with. Utterly hilarious. Wittily gouging each other in the eye became the draw for everyone at the student body meetings where he and I were both "senators" for our respective divisions. I even pushed his car (with him in it, standing on the brakes) across a parking lot with my truck. Good times.

But when I found out through the grapevine that his dad was very very sick and in the hospital, I went out the same day with my twin sister and we bought a beautiful purple African violet plant. I don't know if anyone else does this, but down South you give violets to sick people as a sign of healing. I've gotten my share of violets over time, and given then. When I gave him the violets and explained the meaning, his face flushed and he couldn't look at me anymore. Atypically, he was at a loss for words. We wanted very much for his dad to be all right, so we showed it, even in a small way.

I know how important it would be to me for someone to go out of their way to show me a sign that they were tuned in to what matters to me most. Knowing the right words to say or the way to respond is everything, not just to me, but to everyone.

 

[Domino]

How about I put it this way? Being warm is a default mood when we deal with other people, it's like a coat that we put on. Maybe it's a subconscious choice, because when I'm being warm at others I don't have to direct my attention to myself, which usually results in some introspective/sullen mood. I have a feeling that others, especially if they are introverts, will see that and take it at face value, and be satisfied with interacting with the warm ENFJ. But I myself would actually appreciate it if somebody took notice of the coat and offer to take it off for me. So no, it's actually a great benchmark in relationship if somebody wants to dig a bit deeper into me.

Indeed.

Anyone who cares enough to get out of the groovy waiting room with the snacks and music into the Big Show where the blue guardians of the Oracle from The Neverending Story that will shoot bolts from their eyes if they sense your insecurity with their domain, I think those people are crazy.

If you have the power to get by me in that manner, you hold the keys to the kingdom. I'm not kidding. God speed, intrepid challenger. May you see naught but my closed eyes. Seeing me in all of my moody NFJ effulgence and wrack, and being unfazed, that's huge.

But it's not all about those who dare. Daring alone won't get you through. There's a path and a method and at the final crossing, a shibboleth that only those who "get" me will know. Otherwise, it's back into the party atmosphere for you.

Like ProteanMix said, the waiting room is a great place. Look, Oreos and Strip Twister!

 

[Fidelia]

It's so good to hear from ENFJs about stuff like this! Keep it coming!

 

[EcK]

Are we talking technics and accessories?

 

[decided]

Okay, from my own personal perspective as an INFJ...

• Be witty and playful, it helps to bring them out of their shell. Once they trust you, they'll open up a lot.
  
• If they're sharing their favourite things with you, and venting to you at the end of a bad day, then you're trusted. This is a Big Deal, even if they don't say so.
  
• Listen to them when they're talking. Properly attend to the points they make, try to take conversation deeper. Because chances are, they're only scratching the surface of what they're thinking.
  
• When they need to vent, don't push them away. Be supportive, help them calm down, give them your honest opinion... gently but firmly.
  
• Notice their quirks, and say that you're proud to know them.
  
• Share them with others, don't fight over them. Let them have their own space... but don't abandon them. I'm sorry, this is really contradictory. I guess you should be consistent but not overbearing.
  
• Do your utmost to understand them from their perspective, but also share your insights about them. The mind-flip will be curiously fascinating to them.
  
• Give them personalised gifts. Make them things. Suggest things they might like. Share things with them.

 

[nynesneg]

The biggest thing for me as an ENFJ.... (at the moment anyway)

Have the patience and desire to pull me out of my shell. Bear with me here for a minute, I'm very outgoing and friendly and with lots of friends. People say I'm generally liked by just about everyone.

BUT it's extremely rare for me to feel comfortable sharing my whole inner world with anybody. (ie, dreams, self doubt, inner passion, and on and on!!) As an INxx, you have an extraordinary ability at this. Just show me you truly are interested and want to hear everything I have to say when I drop pieces of my past or what I'm thinking. Show me how you can identify with my quirks and how I view the world. Make me feel genuinely understood.

Difficult to explain without going into abstract terms...

 

[Fidelia]

How can you tell if an INFJ likes you? They just are available and around a lot. In romantic situations they become "aggressively available" as Synarch puts it, just conveniently being where you may bump into them, yet not appearing to be initiating any kind of contact. They are very receptive though.

You really know that you are in with an INFJ if they share much of who they are with you (means they trust you not to stomp all over that) and if they bring up negative feelings or have conflict with you (means you are worth the effort to get things back to the way they should be and they feel you care enough to work through the conflict). If they hold you to higher standards than other people, that's also a good sign that you are very important to them.

 

[copperfish17]

Trying to digest all these super awesome insights... My personal thanks to everyone who posted here!

Hmm... so it seems like both ENFJ and INFJ have this... exterior facade that hides what they hold inside. I know this holds true for everyone to some degree, but it seems like a particularly significant trait of NFJ's.

So, how would one tell between an E/INFJ who's "just being nice/friendly" and an E/INFJ who genuinely likes you? I cannot differentiate between the two very well. I did get a vague sense of how I should go about doing this from several posts on this thread, but I'd like to see more detail in this particular area.

Wry @ my inability to read people. Enneagram 5's don't cope well with gut feelings/natural instincts... sigh! (So please don't tell me to go just along with my instincts! There's nothing wrong with the advice, but it just won't "work" for me, per se. My INTP-Enneagram-5-ness avoids instinct like a plague.)

Thanks again everyone for your wonderful insights!

 

[Fidelia]

You can tell if they genuinely like you because if you act receptive, they will go out of their way to spend time alone with you. Although I think both E and INFJs can be Feish and socially polite, if they don't sense that you are going to be closer than that, they probably won't spend a lot of one on one time. I think ENFJs are more likely to go over for a party and just take things at face value for what they are than INFJs, but most usually persue closeness on a one on one level.

Sharing any more personal information is also an opportunity for you to either respond by asking questions (therefore saying you want to understand them better), or go on (in which case they'll be quite pleasant, but will conclude that you don't want to be close to them in that sense.) I think both only really open up when they feel the person has taken time to understand them and can handle the other sides of their personality. INFJs especially seem to need enough interaction/observation time to determine what your most likely responses would be in various situations before they will trust you completely (again, dislike of unpleasant emotional surprises).