[ENFJ] ENFJ and INFJ Relationships - How to Love Them

[lasdf23]

You can tell if they genuinely like you because if you act receptive, they will go out of their way to spend time alone with you. Although I think both E and INFJs can be Feish and socially polite, if they don't sense that you are going to be closer than that, they probably won't spend a lot of one on one time.

I second that. If I really like somebody I will initiate the contact to hang out. I will want to keep things moving between us. If you're just like everybody else that I'm nice to, I will be nice to you when I talk to you, but when you ask me to hang out, I will be more selfish with my time/may come up with some believable excuse to bail me out because I do not like to wast/expense my energy on somebody who's not on my priority list. I do it in a nice/charming way that doesn't offend anybody, of course

 

[Amagi]

You have already received many wonderful insights that I heartily agree with. Just the fact that you are taking the time to do this affords you great respect in my mind because, as others have pointed out, we desire for people to want to understand and appreciate us, people who wish to learn how to live with us harmoniously. So, I am sure your mission is just the coolest thing to most of the INFJs here! If this is the attitude that you have toward your xNFJ friends then you are already doing great!

So, how would one tell between an E/INFJ who's "just being nice/friendly" and an E/INFJ who genuinely likes you? I cannot differentiate between the two very well. I did get a vague sense of how I should go about doing this from several posts on this thread, but I'd like to see more detail in this particular area.

There certainly is a difference for us between the "being nice/friendly" and the active pursuit of knowing someone. Here I can only reinforce what others have said. If I am drawn to you in the latter manner then I will actively make myself available to you. It may be hard for me at times to do more than that if I'm not sure how you will react to something more upfront, but if I really want to develop a deeper relationship with you then I will overcome this and actively try to engage with you in one on one situations. One on one interaction is very important for the INFJ. For me, personally, I would even be tempted to say that I am incapable of getting to know someone in a group setting. At least I cannot get to know them in the way I would like to in that context.

So, initiate one on one interaction with your NFJ's or if you find that they are pursuing this kind of time with you, do let them have it. Engage openly and honestly and you will get much trust and love (platonic or otherwise) in return!

 

[decided]

Firstly, this guy > < is supercute!

Ahem.

So, how would one tell between an E/INFJ who's "just being nice/friendly" and an E/INFJ who genuinely likes you? I cannot differentiate between the two very well.

My thoughts...

• If they talk to you because you're there, closest person to interact with, then they're probably just being friendly. They probably like you, but not in a 'deep bond' kind of way.
  
• If they go out of their way to interact with you, such as by specifically sitting next to you so that you can talk, then they like you.
  
• If they want to know any and all details of your life and your views on things, then they really like you.
  
• If they share those details back with you, then they definitely like you.
  
• If they go out of their way to resolve disagreements, then they value the bond that you have developed.

But about that last one, they sometimes withdraw when hurt rather than cause a drama. They'll be processing what's going on, and might need you to reach out first and ask why they're upset.

Oh, and 'they' refers to INFJs here, but some of this could be the same for ENFJs too.

 

[Fidelia]

I agree with decided on all of that! Especially the last bit.

 

[BlackCat]

But about that last one, they sometimes withdraw when hurt rather than cause a drama. They'll be processing what's going on, and might need you to reach out first and ask why they're upset.

This causes major problems. Withdrawing when it's most important to speak up to fix an issue...

 

[Fidelia]

It's not that they won't talk. It's just that they need to know the other person cares about it. They also don't want to be overemotional in front of the other person or not have an accurate assessment of the situation before starting to talk. The more unsure they feel of the other person's reaction to their feelings, the more time it will take them to get talking. However, they also really dislike unresolved conflict, so it's not going to last forever like that.

 

[cascadeco]

So, how would one tell between an E/INFJ who's "just being nice/friendly" and an E/INFJ who genuinely likes you? I cannot differentiate between the two very well.

My thoughts...


[*]If they talk to you because you're there, closest person to interact with, then they're probably just being friendly. They probably like you, but not in a 'deep bond' kind of way.

[*]If they go out of their way to interact with you, such as by specifically sitting next to you so that you can talk, then they like you.

[*]If they want to know any and all details of your life and your views on things, then they really like you.

[*]If they share those details back with you, then they definitely like you.

[*]If they go out of their way to resolve disagreements, then they value the bond that you have developed.


But about that last one, they sometimes withdraw when hurt rather than cause a drama. They'll be processing what's going on, and might need you to reach out first and ask why they're upset.

Yeah, I think I can relate to these points, but for myself, the one I put in the huge font size is most telling.... If I give rather short, succinct answers without going too in-depth or being too revealing about myself, then it's more of a polite/friendly conversation. If I'm really wanting to develop a deeper relationship, I'll elaborate a lot more because I really want to share of myself and want to try to let the other person in. Basically, I'll be a lot more open if I genuinely want to develop a friendship.

 

[Glycerine]

You can tell if they genuinely like you because if you act receptive, they will go out of their way to spend time alone with you. Although I think both E and INFJs can be Feish and socially polite, if they don't sense that you are going to be closer than that, they probably won't spend a lot of one on one time. I think ENFJs are more likely to go over for a party and just take things at face value for what they are than INFJs, but most usually persue closeness on a one on one level.

Sharing any more personal information is also an opportunity for you to either respond by asking questions (therefore saying you want to understand them better), or go on (in which case they'll be quite pleasant, but will conclude that you don't want to be close to them in that sense.) I think both only really open up when they feel the person has taken time to understand them and can handle the other sides of their personality. INFJs especially seem to need enough interaction/observation time to determine what your most likely responses would be in various situations before they will trust you completely (again, dislike of unpleasant emotional surprises).

+1000 ENFJ: if they even bother to remember any of your conversations with them, then they like you at least somewhat. I have had many somewhat involved conversations w/ people and I forget most of them. I know how to get someone to talk about something I could care less about for several hours. lol Ex. sharks, accounting, how there was still racism in the Western world in Einstein's time, computer programming, how psychology on the east coast is evil.

 

[nynesneg]

^^ Agree 100% and relate COMPLETELY to what Pitseleh and Cascedeo said.


A newer INTJ friend of mine recently asked me this exact question recently.
We have been hanging out a rediculous amount of time recently with completely effortless conversations for hours. His question was, "I can tell you're friendly and connect with anybody on some level. How do I know this is not just how you are around everyone new you meet?"

It's very obvious to me of course... but...

• We connect significantly more on an intellectual level, can talk for hours about theories, ideas, meanings behind stuff, and all kinds of Ni stuff.
  
• I'm going out of my way to spend time with this person... When the ENFJ has an extremely packed busy life, and they forgo other obligations to simply hang out for hours...
  
• As said before, I open up pieces alot more of my own personal life, as I feel comfortable. Stuff I normally wouldn't bother telling anyone.
  
• I am comfortable saying completely random funny things that come to my head, which may go against the whole classy mature persona/identity I hold.
  
• I'm comfortable voicing my opinion even it's non cool or weird in the eyes of the listener. (ENFJs have a very specific self identity of course, but we tend to avoid topics of controversy because get so much enjoyment from connecting and relating to people. This one in particular is very difficult to achieve.)

On a side note... I have had some very interesting self discovery recently about how much my interests and activities have been affected by those I was around and dating. Ie, there are all kinds of things I've wanted to go to or try for years but haven't because the people I was around didn't like those. I feel so free to be single and finally realizing in part how much control I have over who I can be.

 

[Domino]

I make friends easily, which stands in stark contrast to the frustratingly long wait/examination process that romantic interests must endure. I seem open and allowing, but that's just with friends. Anything past that is guarded by vicious dogs and porcupines.

When I was younger, I used to feel guilty about that, especially when people would say to me how "mean" or "difficult" I was. It hurt when I heard that. I wonder sometimes why I wasn't more able to rebuff it, seeing as it was such a lie compared to how kind and affectionate I was with my friends.

As I grew older, I learned what was what and began to deeply resent such accusations, and immediately execute the person offering up such slander of my character. After all, such people are merely agents acting in their own interest. Attempting to shame me into anything gets you a swift and wordless boot to the butt. Now, I just laugh when called mean or difficult and take it as a compliment and a sure sign of their own projected inability to subdue me.

A silly thing. Something I can't comprehend. Really, I'm quite squishy on the inside. That's why the Obstacle Course is in place. Can't have the riffraff muddying the silk rugs and wiping their mouths on the moire curtains, can we.

 

[Glycerine]

^ people IRL say I seem very open and friendly but then once they get past the preliminary stage, I close them off unless there seems to be potential for a good friendship/connection. Like I have said many times before, I feel like i can relate to most of what you say. We're both almost ENFJ/INFJ hybrids.

 

[Domino]

^ people IRL say I seem very open and friendly but then once they get past the preliminary stage, I close them off unless there seems to be potential for a good friendship/connection.

Very much agreed. I don't like anyone "wandering" past security.

I have something like a low level panic that people are going to see me fully and drag what I can't hide from them out in front of everyone to pick it apart, like remotely viewing vultures dispatch your internal organs. The way my ENFP twin lives so naturally close to the surface causes me to wince and be a bit anxious for her.

Like I have said many times before, I feel like i can relate to most of what you say. We're both almost ENFJ/INFJ hybrids.

I've really sensed this about you for awhile. When you straddle the line between ENFJ and INFJ, you can find yourself rather turned around. I don't fully relate to either type, and yet, there's this resonance. A very introverted restrained ENFJ? A verbal forceful INFJ? I'm like my fiery INFJ dad only with a few extra bullets in the clip?

I find this frustrating for some reason. Of all people, *I* should be the least ambiguous to myself, yes? *head shake*

 

[Unkindloving]

Unfinished business is huge. My ISTJ father avoids discussion at all costs, which is very difficult for my ENFJ mother who NEEDS it to get done with anything. It's like putting someone in a barrel and then closing up all the knotholes in the barrel so they can't breathe even a bit!

I could never imagine functioning well with an ISTJ in a long term relationship situation. Do they blow up at each other frequently or have they learned how to coexist well?
The whole thing baffles me

I've found that some ENFJs despite being very warm to others are kind of private people. Is that by choice, or is it that others don't tend to take the initiative to dig more? Would you resent gentle digging?

I'm only private with my emotions. I'll discuss anything with anyone, so even a lot of aggressive digging is fine. If someone really wants in on the emotions attached to the discussion, they need to really prove themselves as being worthy and prove that it isn't a burden.
People don't get into that nice squishy, impressionable core of who i am too easily. I'd say that other ENFJs are the same, but their ability to separate topics and emotions can have a different gauge on it.

It was a slew of things altogether. I lost one of the best friends out of the group while was played by another. At the same time, I saw the relationships amongst themselves and with me, all slowly deteriorate. I attempted to resolve the situation first by reaching out to them, but by that time they were so ill that I felt an impenetrable wall between them and I. Also, they didn't seem to understand the reason and extent why I was so concerned over their well-beings. So gradually we lost that sense of common ground.

I tried resolving the situation by telling myself it was going to be ok and I should stick to my group of friends...that they were right in feeling intruded by my concerns for them, and that I can work on myself to make the situation resolve. But I couldn't do it. One night I was sitting in their living room, and it all the sudden hit me... hit me that I no longer have a place among this group of people, and that I no longer shared much with them. So I grabbed my stuff, left, and have not been back since. So I guess it was a mutual thing.. we grew apart, and I held on, but when I realized I couldn't do that anymore without wearing myself down, I cut the ties off myself.

The guys were mostly introverts, I think my (ex) best friend was an ISTJ, the guy who played me was an ISTP. A few others were IXTJ...I believe.

Ah :/. That seems to make things very difficult. The dominant part of my group was an INTJ and ISTJ. When you can get along it can be fantastic, but when an issue comes up it is hard to break through those IxTJ walls to really resolve like we want to.
It's a good thing that you recognized the downfall and were able to cut ties, but i completely understand how terrible it can feel to do so. These things happen, of course, and you need to just remind yourself that self-preservation is best and who knows what the future will bring. I hope you keep on recovering from it . I'm on here if you ever need to vent.

Difficult to explain without going into abstract terms...

I know this all too well ha. I swear ENFJs tend to live in abstract terminology of their own.

So, how would one tell between an E/INFJ who's "just being nice/friendly" and an E/INFJ who genuinely likes you? I cannot differentiate between the two very well.

I have a feeling that we'll inform you if it's not obvious enough already. ENFJs want to bring out your potential as a person, so we'll be inclined to inform you of your potential with us, as well. It's very unique when we feel close to someone. It's been said we'll go out of our way for you, we may even have an extra special glimmer when you're around.
Talk to other people who know the ENFJ and see what sides get portrayed to them. You should be able to see very clear similarities and differences. We're also known as a chameleon type so take that into account.

This causes major problems. Withdrawing when it's most important to speak up to fix an issue...

Boo hiss, kitty . I agree it causes issue.

It's not that they won't talk. It's just that they need to know the other person cares about it. They also don't want to be overemotional in front of the other person or not have an accurate assessment of the situation before starting to talk. The more unsure they feel of the other person's reaction to their feelings, the more time it will take them to get talking. However, they also really dislike unresolved conflict, so it's not going to last forever like that.

This is exactly right, at least for me. I know you said you meant it for INFJs, but i'm hoping other ENFJs can shed some light on if they agree.
I have large problems stepping into a situation i actually care about/directly relates to me without a lot of knowledge on it. If it may not be wanted, i become easily discouraged.
Would you say that INFJs do this in more basic interactions, as well as in depth ones? I only do it in in depth interactions because i know my squishy ENFJ core or more likely to be vulnerable in them.

 

[Fidelia]

Quote:
I could never imagine functioning well with an ISTJ in a long term relationship situation. Do they blow up at each other frequently or have they learned how to coexist well??

I think my mother exhausted every possible way of trying to state things so that my dad would talk. He feels like if it's not happening right now, it didn't happen. When really backed into a corner, he will ignore, say nothing, or say I don't know. As soon as the conversation is over, the issue is over. He will do all sorts of other nice things for us, but not resolve stuff. My mum finally lost hope that anything would change, though she doesn't want to divorce him. Their relationship has changed and while she is nice, and there certainly is kindness there, in a lot of ways, he just lives his own separate life and she's had to find a way to make that work for her through being involved with meaningful other involvement with people, helping them etc. There's some built up resentment from her, but I think she'd be pretty open if he wanted to really talk and get things resolved.

Quote:
This is exactly right, at least for me. I know you said you meant it for INFJs, but i'm hoping other ENFJs can shed some light on if they agree.
I have large problems stepping into a situation i actually care about/directly relates to me without a lot of knowledge on it. If it may not be wanted, i become easily discouraged.
Would you say that INFJs do this in more basic interactions, as well as in depth ones? I only do it in in depth interactions because i know my squishy ENFJ core or more likely to be vulnerable in them.

Yeah, I would agree that INFJs are generally more cautious in their basic interactions. They are more easily discouraged if they believe people are not receptive to what they have to say and they really want to be sure their perceptions are correct before taking action. This is I think why we tend to wait for people to approach us, even if we are interested and willing to talk to them.

I know that I also tend to assume that people structure things in their heads similarly to the way I do. I think a lot before I add something to the structure. Then if new information is presented, I'd have to be pretty sure it was right before I would rip apart the whole structure add it to the mix. EJCC (who is ESTJ) was commenting on the strange paradox that ESTJs are actually much more receptive to changing their way of thinking (thought they don't appear that way) than INFJs are (who seem more receptive, but aren't always). I am more likely to give up too soon on talking to someone about something I see as potentially causing conflict even though it's really important (not so much interpersonally, but if I can see something they are doing that looks like it's going to turn out badly for them). My ENFJ mother on the other hand is more likely not to mull over what she is going to say nearly so long and then sometimes has remorse over having said too much.

 

[cascadeco]

^ people IRL say I seem very open and friendly but then once they get past the preliminary stage, I close them off unless there seems to be potential for a good friendship/connection.

I relate quite a bit to your 'preliminary stage' reference, and then closing it off if after the preliminary getting-to-know-you thing I can't see a lasting potential for a *mutually* beneficial relationship.

 

[OrangeAppled]

How do you know when you've been let inside?

I have one ENFJ I've known for years and years and years and I have more than enough evidence that we are close; I've never questioned it or even analyzed it, it just is....

But I've been friends with this other ENFJ for a few years, and I feel he holds back a part of himself. I'd like to delve into deeper conversation, but right when we're on the cusp of it, he diverges back to playful banter, or to "safer" topics like music and books. Rarely will he become vulnerable and talk about his inner thoughts, feelings, fears, etc, but sometimes he does, unexpectedly & in a way which catches me offguard. He has a lot of female friends that he converses with in that playful, flirty manner, but only occasionally do I feel I am getting "more" from him than he gives to others. It has left me wondering where I stand with him....

I also have this weird feeling that when he senses I am drifting away (because I honestly get bored with the cute stuff after awhile), he opens up that private side to reel me back in, and then when he feels he's caught my attention for awhile again, he pulls back & becomes cryptic about anything too personal, reverting back to the casual conversation. It has this yo-yo effect that is confusing....

 

[Domino]

The "cute" stuff can get very old. I fully understand. I hate it when I can't get to the pith or get a serious answer out of someone.

 

[Synarch]

But I've been friends with this other ENFJ for a few years, and I feel he holds back a part of himself. I'd like to delve into deeper conversation, but right when we're on the cusp of it, he diverges back to playful banter, or to "safer" topics like music and books. Rarely will he become vulnerable and talk about his inner thoughts, feelings, fears, etc, but sometimes he does, unexpectedly & in a way which catches me offguard. He has a lot of female friends that he converses with in that playful, flirty manner, but only occasionally do I feel I am getting "more" from him than he gives to others. It has left me wondering where I stand with him....

I also have this weird feeling that when he senses I am drifting away (because I honestly get bored with the cute stuff after awhile), he opens up that private side to reel me back in, and then when he feels he's caught my attention for awhile again, he pulls back & becomes cryptic about anything too personal, reverting back to the casual conversation. It has this yo-yo effect that is confusing....

This sounds a lot like my ENFJ friend. It really boggles my mind that she seems incapable of summoning up certain things for conversation or sharing. She really seems inaccessible in some fundamental way. We went to the beach for a few weeks because her father has a beach house and only when we both got drunk did she open up about some things. And I was so shocked because it was so much worse than I had imagined. She had experienced so many things that most people would never experience. I could see why she kept it to herself with most people because really a lot of people can't handle when things get real. I think being rather emotionally distant can help me in such cases because I don't suffer from pangs of empathy. I just want to listen and understand. But, I think that was the last time we really broached such personal things. I do understand now why she avoids such territory. Much easier to focus on other people and being "outside".

 

[Domino]

How do you know when you've been let inside?

I have one ENFJ I've known for years and years and years and I have more than enough evidence that we are close; I've never questioned it or even analyzed it, it just is....

But I've been friends with this other ENFJ for a few years, and I feel he holds back a part of himself. I'd like to delve into deeper conversation, but right when we're on the cusp of it, he diverges back to playful banter, or to "safer" topics like music and books. Rarely will he become vulnerable and talk about his inner thoughts, feelings, fears, etc, but sometimes he does, unexpectedly & in a way which catches me offguard. He has a lot of female friends that he converses with in that playful, flirty manner, but only occasionally do I feel I am getting "more" from him than he gives to others. It has left me wondering where I stand with him....

I also have this weird feeling that when he senses I am drifting away (because I honestly get bored with the cute stuff after awhile), he opens up that private side to reel me back in, and then when he feels he's caught my attention for awhile again, he pulls back & becomes cryptic about anything too personal, reverting back to the casual conversation. It has this yo-yo effect that is confusing....

Speaking for myself, being honest or genuine in my interactions is not only the norm, but it's also what I *want* to be. Being fake is repugnant.

However...

One may live one's life very much as "oneself" while never fully exposing the flank to attack. I've explained this to my befuddled ENFP twin over and over, and she gets what I'm saying, but she finds the behavior mystifying in practice. I see her openness as an alarming thing that requires my shielding (though she can certainly handle herself fine...). Most NFJs I've met are the same way and I have no idea why.

As I said before, living on the surface is excruciating. Perhaps this ENFJ you speak of realizes that he's not opening up enough, fears your loss (as a valued person) and offers you a little more access or glimpse into himself because he doesn't want you to go.

That sort of response will NOT be protracted, more like a few flashes of lightning, and then darkness again. We're not very good at *remaining* on the surface.

 

[ergophobe]

Falling fast for a lovely INFJ who is open, affectionate, wonderfully smart and very, very sweet You guys are pretty special and have this ability to just make us ENPs *melt*.

Thanks for all the suggestions. The INFJ I know likes to make small gestures, when they are met positively, expresses more. When I go a little far in my typical ENPness, the INFJ pulls back but always bounces back and never once lets me think that it wasn't welcome. Quite wonderful.

The INFJ loves the feeling of being seen through and having unique personality traits or quirks highlighted. Definitely gets a kick out of Ne madness, is VERY sensitive but also very tolerant. I can sense (and have been told) that the openness I see and the talkative part is not one that others get to see very much. The INFJ is very curious about all aspects of my life but also very forthcoming and tireless in sharing stories and the same facets. All in all, I'm floored.