[MBTI General] infp & estp... does it work?

[BRMC117]

the person that I have been going out with for 3 years is a ESTP, (I am a INFP) and it works out amazingly. I understand him, and he understands me.

 

[CzeCze]

Caveat: I'm sure it can work. It could work out great. I think as the INFP you have to be forthcoming though and be a match the ESTP's bluntness.

Otherwise, no. I think in terms of the POV of an INFP, you have to be at good point of maturity (of your functions and overall). Otherwise, INFPs can be way too sensitive and unprepared to communicate and deal effectively with an ESTP who may be very blunt. The fact you two are strong where the other is weak can be a great attraction factor (I think an INFP can be admiring of the ESTP's social ease and confidence and devil-may-care attitude) but it's also the source of tension, stress, and aggravation.

I'm super biased on this question because an INFP I dated had a 2+ year tumultuous relationship with an ESTP and I think it was one of the most dysfunctional riztarded things I've heard of. And I loathe both of them.

 

[Halla74]

(IV) Sweet Irony....

Have you ever looked at "intertype relations?" It's part of Socionics, which has some quirks as I understand it, as it is not totally equivalent to MBTI, BUT in most cases it is DAMN CLOSE. Anyway, they guessed how each type will get along...

Consider this.

ESTp/INFj: (Me and my wife)
"Conflicting Relations" Apparently, the "worst ever"...

These are relations of constantly developing conflict. Conflicting relations have the worst compatibility between partners among all other relations. However, it does not seem to be so obvious, especially...

This is bullshit and I'll tell you why in a minute...

Conflicting relations between psychological ("personality") types

VERSUS...

ESTp/INFp:
"Relations of Duality" Apparently, the "BEST EVER"!!!

These relations are the most favourable and comfortable of all intertype relations providing complete psychological compatibility. Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand...

Relations of Duality between psychological ("personality") types

So, WHAT am I trying to prove with this little exercise? Simple. According to some, the only difference between MBTI and Socionics, is that if you switch the fourth function (for introverts only), then the two are equal.

So, allegedly, an INFJ in MBTI is an INFp in Socionics...

Now, didn't we just see up top that:

(1) ESTP/INFJ = Impossible, and ESTP/INFP = Best ever possible, according to Socionics???

AND

(2) If the "switch the fourth function rule" is valid, then one pairing is marital bliss, and the other is hell. BUT - here I am getting along splendidly with my wife. Did we have some rough times? Hell yes. But I do not attribute them exclusively to our MBTI functions or types, as doing so would be proposterous and stupid.

WHAT'S MY POINT?

There is a WHOLE LOT MORE to people and to marriage than MBTI or Socionics or Enneagram. What is of imperative importance is that each partner is cognizant of their particular types, functions, and potential issues + strategies to mitigate them, and to simply see them as tools to ASSIST THEM in building the marriage/relationship both want and need.

ABCD +/- WXYZ is good or bad = HOGWASH

What matters is the love and maturity of the two people involved with each other, period.

Halla has spoken. umpyouup:

 

[SilkRoad]

...

(1) ESTP/INFJ = Impossible, and ESTP/INFP = Best ever possible, according to Socionics???

...

What matters is the love and maturity of the two people involved with each other, period.

Good points, especially the latter. And, I'm not sure INFJ and INFP are so frightfully different, so it seems like a silly argument.

(I haven't looked much into socionics...it seems a bit too flaky.)

 

[Sinmara]

What matters is the love and maturity of the two people involved with each other, period.

No no, you have it all wrong. What matters is that they're rich. I really love that quality in a person.

 

[Halla74]

No no, you have it all wrong. What matters is that they're rich. I really love that quality in a person.

Shit! You're right! My bad!

 

[Lauren]

As my ex-husband is an ISTP, this may not be germaine to the question of ESTP. But, when we first met there was much to love about him (and there is still much to love about him). He is loyal and dependable, traits which I admire, and fiercely independent and funny. But, what killed it for us was what is mentioned above: I was constantly butting heads with him, so there was a persistent source of irritation for me. Living in an atmosphere of mostly constant irritation finally became intolerable. He also enjoys arguing about (to me) uninteresting things just for the sake of argument. He really didn't care about these things but just wanted to jolt my chain. This is 180 degrees from my temperment, which is to have peace, reduce conflict, resolve issues, and move on. I hate debating issues simply for the sake of debating. But, I can see how an ST mate would enjoy this.

 

[Space_Oddity]

ESTp/INFj: (Me and my wife)
"Conflicting Relations" Apparently, the "worst ever"...

Um, I don't know much about Socionics, but from the information on this forum I gathered that Socionics INFj is in fact MBTI INFP... If Socionics ESTp is still an MBTI ESTP, which I'm not sure about, that would make it the same kind of duality as INFJ/ESTP in MBTI, which is considered the best pairing by many.

Personally, I've observed that the anima/animus often really attract each other and sometimes can work very well together (just like you and your wife), but sometimes the relationship ends up being extremely challenging. However, I'd say that neither is actually the result of MBTI.

As for INFP/ESTP... I really like ESTP guys as friends; they're probably the closest to my archetypal image of a "brother". It's fun, it's natural, but there's no romantic attraction. I cannot imagine going out with any ESTP I've met so far, because ultimately I look for a potential soul-mate or mind-mate in a relationship, and I haven't had this connection with them.

 

[Halla74]

Um, I don't know much about Socionics, but from the information on this forum I gathered that Socionics INFj is in fact MBTI INFP... If Socionics ESTp is still an MBTI ESTP, which I'm not sure about, that would make it the same kind of duality as INFJ/ESTP in MBTI, which is considered the best pairing by many.

Hey there. There is no way that you or I could put shackles around MBTI/Socionics type equivalence. Read this thread if you want your mind to get wanked out about the topic:

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...s/19661-relationships-duality.html#post754920

I stated what I did above to point out that there is alot more to love than MBTI or Socionics type compatibility could ever hope to predict, not to get mired in typological atomic composition. Not hatin', just sayin.

Personally, I've observed that the anima/animus often really attract each other and sometimes can work very well together (just like you and your wife), but sometimes the relationship ends up being extremely challenging. However, I'd say that neither is actually the result of MBTI.

My hairstylist says: "Opposites attract, and then they attack!"

As for INFP/ESTP... I really like ESTP guys as friends; they're probably the closest to my archetypal image of a "brother". It's fun, it's natural, but there's no romantic attraction. I cannot imagine going out with any ESTP I've met so far, because ultimately I look for a potential soul-mate or mind-mate in a relationship, and I haven't had this connection with them.

That doesn't mean one isn't out there...

Live your life, don't let MBTI or any other system of self discovery decide it for you.

Cheers,

-Halla

 

[FDG]

Well, Halla, you have to understand that socionics relationships make typing somewhat tautological (and also prone to regressum ad infinitum, if you want to take the algorithm to its end). Basically if you're ESTp and you have a really good relationship with your wife which tests as INFj...well, she is probably an organized INFp, or a somewhat introverted ENFj. Relationships are more important than type for socionics, thus if two conflictors are able to have a GREAT relationship, they're not considered conflictors.

It doesn't have anything to do with j-p switching or any concept like that.

 

[Poki]

Um, I don't know much about Socionics, but from the information on this forum I gathered that Socionics INFj is in fact MBTI INFP... If Socionics ESTp is still an MBTI ESTP, which I'm not sure about, that would make it the same kind of duality as INFJ/ESTP in MBTI, which is considered the best pairing by many.

Personally, I've observed that the anima/animus often really attract each other and sometimes can work very well together (just like you and your wife), but sometimes the relationship ends up being extremely challenging. However, I'd say that neither is actually the result of MBTI.

As for INFP/ESTP... I really like ESTP guys as friends; they're probably the closest to my archetypal image of a "brother". It's fun, it's natural, but there's no romantic attraction. I cannot imagine going out with any ESTP I've met so far, because ultimately I look for a potential soul-mate or mind-mate in a relationship, and I haven't had this connection with them.

I think that duality provides the smoothest relationship of all intertype relations. It doesnt mean that 2 types will always connect on everything and that interests, etc must still align. You still have to have the commonality that pulls you together, without that you have 2 people who can become physicologically close with ease when it is needed, but drift apart when its not needed.

The best way to explain duality is for me to tear apart my relationship with my wife(ENFJ) and my relationship with ENFPs. Me and my wife really enjoy each others company, but there is a point where we tend to push a button that bothers the other person. I wish I could honestly tell you why, but I have the hardest time putting my finger on why what she just said bothered me and vice versa. To bring in a real life example that just happened. My wife was in a good mood and made a comment about her shoes. I then called them clod hoppers and it really bothered her and killed her mood. The fact that I didnt like her shoes, but I forced things to be dug into which allowed me to explain that I actually like those shoes, those are the shoes I generally pick out for her to wear, and it reminded her that I really do like them, but it still left that feeling inside her. I only made that comment because the heel is big and thick. The thing is that knowing how Ti and Ni work I can see exactly why this happened, but it doesnt tell me what the issue is, I have to rely on her to open up to understand. What came about is that someone else she knows calls them that and doesnt like them. So even though I have always liked them, it hits her at a deeper level that I didnt understand. If you read the description of conflicting relations it says specifically that things are just under the surface that seem to cause problems.

One a side note our conflictor and our dual pair in socionics are actually really close on alot of levels and if conflicting pairs were so bad and horrible then why does it also state that we are initially attracted to our conflicting pair? Their is something their, but there is also something under the surface that just seems to cause this distance and you really got to get to the core of it.

On the other hand with an ENFP and my interactions, I seem to be able to turn around and comfort them. For example I can rant to my mom about my wife. There is a commonality and my mom will always bring these up and I can honestly see where they are coming from, but their is also a difference in the way each person handles things that are different. My wife and my mom disagree big time in the way each other handles problems. I have talked to my mom about this and their is a kinda envy, but a dislike at the same time in regards to how she thinks my wife handles problems.

Their was a particular issue was between my sons NFP teacher and my (ENFJ) wife. The NFP teacher tried everything she knew and turned to blame outside of her control. Didnt come across to my wife so good and she became defensive and things kinda spiraled down hill. Now when an ENFJ director came in it was like battle of Fe and things were able to be brought up in a different fashion and the tension was better managed. It became a much more healthy argument. I didnt really do alot of the talking. I could understand both my wife and the teacher, but at that point I didnt feel like their was anything I could do either way. To get the teacher to back down would require me going against my wife. To go with my wife would cause the teacher to feel like she was ganged up on and hit a defensive mode which she already felt ganged up on.

ok, im lost now with where I was going Any questions?

duality and conflicting pairs are real, but the statement about worst ever and best ever is not accurate. The issue is that a conflicting pair sets up that possibility with closeness and both people really want to reach it, but something hidden under the surface keeps it from reaching that closeness that you can reach with your dual. So with other relations you wont have that desire to get as close in so many different areas as you do with a conflictor or a dual so you wont get as hurt as you can with a conflicting pair. But life is all about balance and its up to an individual where they want that balance to be. Its not to say that a conflicting pair cant make it, but that you are both gonna have to do some digging both seperately and together to get to the root of things. From my experience it takes a dual to reach this point, I dont know any other way to do this personally without that person you can get close to.

And yes I know I am gonna get people who want to fight me in regards to being close with those types that are with someone other then their conflictor or dual.

Wall of text is done. Sorry, but I got alot of experience with both conflicting and dual pairs and I love to dissect interactions and understand them on all levels. My duals helps me to detach and do this, my conflictor causes me to get stuck in trying to understand the issue that they wont tell me.

 

[Ezra]

Ehhhh, right.

Basically, the best policy is to go into socionics with a fresh mind. You may find your type is the same, you may find some correlations. But if you try to compare socionics and MBTI, it will end up being complete bullshit.

I'm sure you and your wife are not conflictors, Halla74. In fact it's the only thing I am absolutely positive of.

Everything else? It all relies on my own personal observations, which are probably never gonna happen unless you and your wife live in the UK and we can go for a coffee and I can see your dynamic hahaha. But I'll tell you you are not conflictors and I will debate this to the death with anyone.

 

[Ezra]

Well, Halla, you have to understand that socionics relationships make typing somewhat tautological (and also prone to regressum ad infinitum, if you want to take the algorithm to its end). Basically if you're ESTp and you have a really good relationship with your wife which tests as INFj...well, she is probably an organized INFp, or a somewhat introverted ENFj. Relationships are more important than type for socionics, thus if two conflictors are able to have a GREAT relationship, they're not considered conflictors.

It doesn't have anything to do with j-p switching or any concept like that.

Yeah I basically agree with this, although if one has a good understanding of socionics, a) one doesn't tend to test as anything because socionics tests are rubbish and b) if your reasons for being EII > IEI are because you're more organised, you've probably missed the point of socionics.

 

[Halla74]

Well, Halla, you have to understand that socionics relationships make typing somewhat tautological (and also prone to regressum ad infinitum, if you want to take the algorithm to its end). Basically if you're ESTp and you have a really good relationship with your wife which tests as INFj...well, she is probably an organized INFp, or a somewhat introverted ENFj. Relationships are more important than type for socionics, thus if two conflictors are able to have a GREAT relationship, they're not considered conflictors.

It doesn't have anything to do with j-p switching or any concept like that.

Hee Hee Hee. All I can tell you is "Urrrrm! Pretty lady! Kissy, kissy! Muhaahaaa! Ohhhh, she's nice and cuddly sweet and smells like a little flower, Ahhhhh...I love her." means a hell of alot more to me than four 8 letters and a probability matrix ever will. Don't ever let pop-science get in the way of love, got it? You will LOSE, and she will too, and that sucks.

Ehhhh, right.

The best quote EVER.

Basically, the best policy is to go into socionics with a fresh mind. You may find your type is the same, you may find some correlations. But if you try to compare socionics and MBTI, it will end up being complete bullshit.

The second best quote EVER.

I'm sure you and your wife are not conflictors, Halla74. In fact it's the only thing I am absolutely positive of.

I'll not argue with my EXTX twin. umpyouup:

If you had any idea about the hard times we've survived, you might change your mind, but the bigger point is that with some self discovery on both our parts, learning ourselves (and our respective types/functions) and learning our differences, it allowed us to get along alot better, and even if we were conflictors then, we now behave much more like duals. For one letter off, that's a hell of a price to pay. I wouldn't want someone I loved, and who loved me to give up on me because I was a "p" vs. a "j", do you understand what I am saying?

Everything else? It all relies on my own personal observations,

Me too...

which are probably never gonna happen unless you and your wife live in the UK and we can go for a coffee and I can see your dynamic hahaha.

Don't tempt me. The world is small, life is long, and I am a daring and resourceful person, hahhahaaa!!!

But I'll tell you you are not conflictors and I will debate this to the death with anyone.

I'll spare you and the innocent bystander that tries to take you on the trouble, I don't think we are either, but I'm not saying we're "duals" either. We're two people. A man and a woman. And we dig each other. And we made babies and stuff. That is how mankind has survived, not by trying to find optimized mating pairs. Stepford people, unite!

Yeah I basically agree with this, although if one has a good understanding of socionics, a) one doesn't tend to test as anything because socionics tests are rubbish and b) if your reasons for being EII > IEI are because you're more organised, you've probably missed the point of socionics.

Ezra, I wish you had your own talk show Here, here, Sir!

-Halla

 

[justadbag]

I'm an ESFP, and I have know many INFPs ESTPs and INTPs.

INFPs are my semi-duals.
INTPs are my duals.
ESTPs....yuck for me, but I know INFPs would love 'em.

I have first hand experience, that Duality definitely works! better than any other type-relation (Activity is not bad either)
I have dated all kinds of people (I AM an ESFP, after-all)

and I have found that the best match for me, (through EXPERIENCE), is my dual, the INTP.

and by the way, this not only includes intimate relationships, but ALSO friendships, work-related-friendships AS WELL!
my favorite types in the world, (out of my first-hand-experience) is my Duals! those funny INTP bastards. and sexy INTP cuties.

therefore, my conclusion (based on my first-hand-real-world-experience), is that Duality can work 90% of the time! and work better than all other relation types!
Hurray for Duality! that is the saving grace of life.

 

[Alassea]

Well, given the fact that INFPs are easy to manipulate it would work out quite well for the ESTP. You see, Feeler type Women. It's like this, you gotta be submissive and passive. Now if you're listening to Thinker type women you're thinking as a Feminists which most Thinker type women are. Look at their faces, squarish and arrogant looking. Thinker type women. Be a feely type of women and use your feminine powers to persuade the Aggressive ESTP to your ways. Play stupid or being sly , feely women ways. Masculine Thinker male types like that. I like that.

You're full of bullshit lmao.

 

[Alassea]

I am an INFP and I am with an ESTP. It's been a LONG, HARD relationship. He has manipulated me and I have stuck with him. I do feel it's worth it. I've learned a lot from him and he from me. It works. We argue ALL THE TIME! But, we've realized we're 2 spirited individuals who are very passionate and so arguing is just part of our normal banter. We try really, really hard, but we make it work.

Why the hell would you stick with him if he manipulated you?

My pride would never allow me to stick with assholes like that.

 

[Alassea]

The problem I see on this thread that people (including my own type sadly) have this consensus that INFPs are 'easy to manipulate' because we're 'feelers' type.
That is so stereotypical and idiotic and good luck in the real world if you are grouping millions of people into four letters and thinking you can do this and that because of your own skewed perception of mbti.

And to you INFP who proudly say you're easy to manipulate, I would ask you all to speak for yourself and YOURSELF ONLY. Do not include me and other dignified INFPs into your pitiful group.

 

[chubber]

INFJs are easy to manipulate, INFPs are the manipulators.

 

[Dreaming Demon]

I know it´s been a while and I am way to late to answer but it makes me kind of sad that everyone here is thinking Infp and Estp wouldn´t get along. Normally I am not that much into Estps as well because I find them to be rude and egoistic but I strongly believe that a relationship has the potential to success.
I am an Infp and my boyfriend is Estp and yet we never have had serious problems in our relationship. I never thought I could fall in love with that guy because we were so different and I found him to be too careless but here we are. It´s true that he tends to be kinda loud and active. Also he does not care about most things but he knows that I do care and he values that. It´s only been a few months but we have been friends before and knew each other for years.
Me advice:
- You should be able to say "no" because otherwise they may get you to do someting you don´t feel comfortable with without even noticing.
- Make sure to let them know what you need and let them decide if they can deal with that. Tell them "I am sensitive". Make sure they know you two are different.
- Check if you can get along with different values. Like I am a vegetarian almot a vegan and my bf loves to eat meat.

You could give each other a lot because you both are so different but you need to accept and understand each other. It could take some work but it is possible.